The New Tone Thread

Ok, more fuckin' around here, 2 tracks (I tried to play 'em as close as I could...) panned out 100% L/R, one is my DSL/4x12, the other is AT4....Which is which??? Shouldn't be too hard for you guys, but the more I play around with AT4, the more I like it...

I used my Ibanez straight into the DSL & interface, & these are the raw tracks rendered from the daw, no eq etc....

Amp settings:
100w mode
OD 1
Resonance: 0
Presence: 5
Bass: 5
Mid: 5
Treble: 5
Vol: 3
Gain: 3


AT4 settings:
SD-1 > JCM800 > G12H > '57, 609, & room mics blended

SD-1:
Level: 10
Drive: 0
Tone: 5

JCM800 sim:
Presence: 9.4
Bass: 8.5
Middle: 7.6
Treble: 9.7
Master: 5.5
Pre-Amp: 5

G12H
 
Both of those tones blend really well together. I'd just be guessing as to which is which but I like the right tone a little better because it's a bit less fizzy. Nice job.
 
Ok, so this does depend on what ear I have my headphones on... But the one on my right has a tiny bit of hiss on it and gives a touch of feedback as it fades. Going for that as the DSL. They blend well though.
 
Thanks ocnor, not gonna tell which is which yet, I'm hoping some more of the guys will chime in...

I guess I went overboard with the previous clips, but I felt bad because I'd been absent from the thread for so long...lol...Guess I got carried away...:).


JDOD: Good guess, but not gonna say if you're right or wrong just yet man....waiting on some more of the guys.....
 
Thats's nice sounding on both sides ... not gonna guess 'cause I'd have to figure out how to pan my 'puter speakers and don't wanna ..... but ocnor is right ..... they blend very well.
 
I'll find out in the morning miner, got to go to sleep now.

As an aside, I keep getting an advert for Reverand Gutitars at the side of my page, one of them looks really cool, like a slanted (jaguar style) version of a Joan Jett guitar... But it's called a fucking "Reverand" I just couldn't do it.

Just looked it up, Reverand Sensei Jr
 
Thats's nice sounding on both sides ... not gonna guess 'cause I'd have to figure out how to pan my 'puter speakers and don't wanna ..... but ocnor is right ..... they blend very well.
Thanks Bob, I like the options I've got right now, I really miss the Ceriatone amp I sold, but that's life. I'll get something to fill that gap eventually, but I've still got my DSL & 1,000,000 ampsims.....:laughings:.


I'll find out in the morning miner, got to go to sleep now.

As an aside, I keep getting an advert for Reverand Gutitars at the side of my page, one of them looks really cool, like a slanted (jaguar style) version of a Joan Jett guitar... But it's called a fucking "Reverand" I just couldn't do it.

Just looked it up, Reverand Sensei Jr

Go lay down dude!!!!

Looked that guitar up just out of curiosity, & I think that thing is butt-ugly...but to each his own...
 
I'm gonna guess the right tone is sim...even with the noise in there.
I was waiting on you & your super-duper ears man...:)..Dunno how you do it, but you hear even the tiniest of differences in these clips/tones...I try, but I just can't hear the minute differences that you can. I dunno if I'm half deaf from 25 years of loud-ass machinery & music, or if I just don't know how to listen, if that makes any sense....


Right channel sounds like a real mic gettin whacked.

Thanks Lou, I like both of 'em myself...



Ok, here's the skinny......

The real amp is on the....





























left side....

Greg guessed it, but I was 99.999% he'd know right off the bat....

And, again, I'm fuckin' impressed with AT4, but I've been using real amp clips to A/B against, & adjusting/tweaking to make 'em sound as close as I can, without spending an eternity on 'em....

The sim clip (on the right side) was SD-1 > JCM800 > G12H > '57, 609, & room mics blended, all in AT4...
 
Ok, I know this is a little off-topic, but do any of you Reaper users use temp maps for your songs??? I've been fucking with 'em a little, & while it does make my fake drums sound better/more real (due to the little timing fluctuations), it's fuckin' tedious & was wondering if any of you do the temp map thing, how you go about doing it...
 
Haha! Greg for the win!

I guessed right side is sim for a few reasons. For one, it is a little fizzy to me. Just a little. It sounds a little flatter and has a sort of high mid buzz in it that is usually a telltale sign of simulation. No matter, it still sounded real good. Lots of people use real amps that sound shit tons worse than that.

Second, the noise. Noise is inherent in amps, but miner's real amp settings weren't set so wildly that noise would be a problem on what I know is a pretty new amp. It's not like it was cranked. The sim settings showed a boost and super high tone settings. Even in sim world, that stuff makes noise.

Third was was just trying to reverse logic miner's trickery. I thought he'd think that everyone would think the noisy side would be a real amp, so I went the opposite. :D

So only one part out of three was based on sound alone. Without seeing the settings and thinking miner was trying to trick us, I'd probably have guessed the noisy side was a real amp too.
 
Ok, I know this is a little off-topic, but do any of you Reaper users use temp maps for your songs??? I've been fucking with 'em a little, & while it does make my fake drums sound better/more real (due to the little timing fluctuations), it's fuckin' tedious & was wondering if any of you do the temp map thing, how you go about doing it...
I don't even know what that is.
 
Haha! Greg for the win!
Lol...I knew you'd guess it man, that's why I waited until you replied before I let the cat outta the bag...

I guessed right side is sim for a few reasons. For one, it is a little fizzy to me. Just a little. It sounds a little flatter and has a sort of high mid buzz in it that is usually a telltale sign of simulation. No matter, it still sounded real good. Lots of people use real amps that sound shit tons worse than that.
Dude, you don't know how good these compliments make me feel. I've been on a fuckin' mission for about 3 years now to get as good guitar tones that I possibly can. Sometimes I do good, sometimes they just suck, but for me to get a compliment from the Gerg on sim tone is an achievement IMO....Thanks bud!!!

Second, the noise. Noise is inherent in amps, but miner's real amp settings weren't set so wildly that noise would be a problem on what I know is a pretty new amp. It's not like it was cranked. The sim settings showed a boost and super high tone settings. Even in sim world, that stuff makes noise.
The reason I had the treble/tone jacked up on the sim is the DSL is a bright amp, & that's the only way I could get it close, without using any kind of post-eq (I didn't even use the rack eq in AT4, I could've brightened it up that way, but didn't think it would be "fair")...

Third was was just trying to reverse logic miner's trickery. I thought he'd think that everyone would think the noisy side would be a real amp, so I went the opposite. :D
Yeah, I was trying to fool you guys, I think I might have gotten over on a couple, but again, I knew you'd know right off the bat what as what...


I don't even know what that is.
A tempo map is basically bpm for a song for every bar dude. If I can dig 'em up, I'm gonna try to tempo map those drums you sent me last year, to see how consistent you are with the metronome....I tempo mapped "Rock & Roll All Nite" from those Rock Band multi's I've got, & the bpm fluctuates quite a bit, slowing down/speeding up during the different parts. I've got the drums programmed, & have to say, the midi stuff really benefits from doing this...I'll post a screenshot of what I'm talking about in a few minutes....
 
Ooooooh, yeah, tempo maps. You said "temp" maps, and I'm like wtf is that?

Tempo maps, yeah, sometimes. But only when doing an actual tempo change, or a timing change.

Most of the time it's just to go from straight time to double time. I usually prefer to have my click track banging out 8th notes instead of quarter notes. It's maddening to most people, but that's just how I like it.
 
Miner, I used to program my drums and I was pretty damn good at it if I say so myself. Almost as good as you're getting with your amp sims. :D

I'll tell ya...I never used tempo maps, I never believed that changing timing or even making hits slightly "off-time" was the trick to making drums sound human. To me, 99% of it is playing with velocities. Knowing how a drummer plays his hi-hats and ride cymbal is more than half the battle. For example, a drummer will usually accent the 1,2,3 and 4, while making the "and"s lower in volume. Just doing that alone is a huge step to making drums sound more human. I don't believe in off-setting snare hits, etc....for a few reasons. One is that it doesn't make enough of a difference unless you over do it, in which case, it's noticeable, and you don't want that. Another reason is that off-setting your snare (or kik) means you also have to offset the hi-hat that plays with it. A drummer will always hit his hi-hat and snare at the same time. You can't off-set one without the other.

So, long story short, IN MY OPINION.....Worry more about velocities than about slight timing off-sets.

Having said all that, your programmed drums are the most convincing I have ever heard, so just keep doing what you're doing.
 
Ooooooh, yeah, tempo maps. You said "temp" maps, and I'm like wtf is that?

Tempo maps, yeah, sometimes. But only when doing an actual tempo change, or a timing change.

Most of the time it's just to go from straight time to double time. I usually prefer to have my click track banging out 8th notes instead of quarter notes. It's maddening to most people, but that's just how I like it.
Lol...Sorry dude, that was a typo....hahaha....I'm using this little fuckin' laptop & I can't type on it for shit, I'm used to my full sized keyboard on my "big" computer...but yeah, tempo map....

Here's a screenshot of what I've been doing (this is a Black Sabbath cover I'm working on):





Miner, I used to program my drums and I was pretty damn good at it if I say so myself. Almost as good as you're getting with your amp sims. :D
:eek: Wow dude, thanks for the compliment!!!! But really, the ampsim(s) are what are doing the sounds dude, I've just been tweaking 'em like I would a real amp & they seem to respond like they should. AT4 is the shizzle IMO, I know a lot of guys (even me on occasion) frown on 'em, but really, AT4 is a step up from anything I've used before...

I'll tell ya...I never used tempo maps, I never believed that changing timing or even making hits slightly "off-time" was the trick to making drums sound human. To me, 99% of it is playing with velocities. Knowing how a drummer plays his hi-hats and ride cymbal is more than half the battle. For example, a drummer will usually accent the 1,2,3 and 4, while making the "and"s lower in volume. Just doing that alone is a huge step to making drums sound more human. I don't believe in off-setting snare hits, etc....for a few reasons. One is that it doesn't make enough of a difference unless you over do it, in which case, it's noticeable, and you don't want that. Another reason is that off-setting your snare (or kik) means you also have to offset the hi-hat that plays with it. A drummer will always hit his hi-hat and snare at the same time. You can't off-set one without the other.

So, long story short, IN MY OPINION.....Worry more about velocities than about slight timing off-sets.

Having said all that, your programmed drums are the most convincing I have ever heard, so just keep doing what you're doing.
Wow dude, thanks for yet another compliment!!!!!

I hear ya man, & I'm not using this to make the hits off time a hair or anything like that, the way I'm doing it is basically turning the actual drum hits from a song into midi. Doing it this way actually has the little timing variances that the player put into the performance....Once I get the tempo map done, I'll use ReaGate to send midi for the kick, snare & toms, then I'll either play the hi-hats/cymbals on my e-kit, or use ReaGate for those too, just depends on how complex the playing is....

I know this sounds like a whole lot of trouble, but after I learned how to do it, I tempo mapped/programmed Foreigner's "Hot Blooded" in about an hour & 1/2....That's pretty damn quick compared to the hours & hours I'd been spending on these fake drums....

And while I'm on a roll here, I've learned more about drum programming from you & Greg in the last year or so than I've learned from everybody combined since I started this stuff. Yep, RAMI & Gerg have taught the miner how to program drums...You guys deserve a lot of credit IMO, very, very helpful on about anything I've asked you two about....

On the velocity thing, I agree, & I'm gonna copy/paste your little paragraph into my collection of tips I've accumulated over the past year or so too.....:).
 
Here's some of your drums you sent me a while back Greg, it took longer to un-zip the file & load 'em into the daw than it did to tempo map this:



Pretty damn consistent dude, but there are little timing variances, naturally. I noticed you even speed up just a little for a fill...

For these covers I'm doing, this is gonna make my drums really good (I hope...lol), but on my originals, I'll have to keep doing what I'd been doing all along, use Jamstix' timing via automation for these little changes...

Thanks again guys, you all have really helped me with this stuff, & I really, really appreciate it.....
 
oweee ....... kidney stone!

Glad it's finally eased off, I have a gig in a few hours ...... 10 hours of intense pain sucks unless you're an emo.
 
Back
Top