The New Tone Thread

[RAMI]

That's a good question, and as always, it depends. I probably would not cut any bass, but if it were a problem I'd slap a low shelf on it instead of a cut or high pass. Also, I like to pan my guitars out wide, so that low end becomes less problematic way out to the sides. It almost vanishes actually, but the fullness remains. And really these are tones I probably wouldn't use anyway. I wouldn't normally run my bass setting up that high, but the volume was low-ish on these clips so it helped fatten it up some. Normally I'd use more volume and less bass knob.

Cool, that's good to know. I might be guilty of judging my own tracks when they're solo'd rather than trusting how they sound in a mix.

That sounds pretty much on-par with what you usually do. I would probably still like a little more high mids, but it's pretty good as-is.

Cool. Thanx. I might have the mic too far from centre. I'm sure if I moved it in about an inch, I'd get some higher mids back. OK, I'm moving on for now. Thanx for all the help. At least I can work with this.

 

[Greg_L]

Cool, that's good to know. I might be guilty of judging my own tracks when they're solo'd rather than trusting how they sound in a mix.
.

Yeah that can be misleading. Through a shit ton of trial-and-error, I've learned, for my own stuff, what will generally work and won't won't. What sounds good for sound clip for fun might not just drop into a mix. I'd rather track and use no EQ than have to carve something up to fit. It's like the "use less gain for recording" mantra. It's mostly true. It works live too. By itself a guitar track might sound too clean. But in a mix, doubled with another similar track, it sounds righteous. Less gain sounds bigger and fuller and clearer in a mix most of the time than some compressed mushed out fuzz garbage. No one ever accused AC/DC of having small sounding guitars, and they don't use shit for gain...by today's standards. And like in those pedal clips I just did, I'd use the cleaner raw track way before the boosted tracks. That tone played at punk rock speeds will cut and sound gigantic in a mix. I know it will because that's the kind of sound I generally go for and I know it works for me. But by itself, it's just pretty basic.

 

[JDOD]

RAMI, this one sounds fine, personally I think the rhythm could use a bit more bite - probably what Greg was refering to with hi-mids and in places the lead sounded really quiet - particularly around the 50s mark. Almost like it was disappearing a bit.

 

[RAMI]

RAMI, this one sounds fine, personally I think the rhythm could use a bit more bite - probably what Greg was refering to with hi-mids and in places the lead sounded really quiet - particularly around the 50s mark. Almost like it was disappearing a bit.

Thanx J. Adding bite will be no problem. As far as the lead, this isn't really mixed yet, so levels aren't set at all. There isn't really any lead actually. It's all sitting under what will be the vocals. I still have to put real drums and vocals on this.

 

[RAMI]

It not stupid at all. I too have tried to make use of my condensers on my cab relentlessly, simply becasue i want to justify their expensive existence under my roof. Sounds lame but it's true. They are great for vocals, but i'd like to use them for something else. However, I find i am always drawn back to my 57 each time i start mucking with it. It's not to say we are messing around in vein, i do think that in the right environment with the right room, perfect conditions etc. you probably could find a hell of tone with a condenser on a loud cab. I will keep trying.
typically when i track i will always just throw a condenser on the cab anyways just for the hell of it. Literally no science to it, i just put it up randomly and see what comes out of it because i know my 57 track will do the job just curious to see what can happen with different set-ups. Most of the time it is shit but i recall my last effort was o.k. I should actually see if i still have those tracks to A/B for fun!

Hehe...Yeah, I'm a little obsessive that way. I have a mic on each drum, a great vocal mic, etc....and I have this one extra condenser that I wanted to convince myself will work on guitar. That way, I never have to un-plug a mic and move it. Now, I'll have to take a 57 off one of my toms to mic my guitar. First world problems got me down.

Tones wise your last effort sounds way better. I am listening on my monitors and they have improved a lot. I like the direction they are headed. Could maybe use a little tweak of beef somewhere in the low mids maybe. But only my preference. Actually now that i hear them solo'd on their own around the 2:30 mark i think they have enough beef. Stoked to see where your tweaks take you next.

Thanx man. I'm still working on it, but I'll get there.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Yeah that can be misleading. Through a shit ton of trial-and-error, I've learned, for my own stuff, what will generally work and won't won't. What sounds good for sound clip for fun might not just drop into a mix. I'd rather track and use no EQ than have to carve something up to fit. It's like the "use less gain for recording" mantra. It's mostly true. It works live too. By itself a guitar track might sound too clean. But in a mix, doubled with another similar track, it sounds righteous. Less gain sounds bigger and fuller and clearer in a mix most of the time than some compressed mushed out fuzz garbage. No one ever accused AC/DC of having small sounding guitars, and they don't use shit for gain...by today's standards. And like in those pedal clips I just did, I'd use the cleaner raw track way before the boosted tracks. That tone played at punk rock speeds will cut and sound gigantic in a mix. I know it will because that's the kind of sound I generally go for and I know it works for me. But by itself, it's just pretty basic.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Greg_L]

Here's some nastier pedal pushing just for shits and grins...

This is an amp/speaker/mic combo configuration I don't use often, if ever, but it came out okay I think just for a quickie.

Les Paul Taditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge p/u
Marshall 1987x 50w Plexi
Presence - 4
Bass - 10
Mid - 4
Treble - 8
Vol 1 - 8
Vol 2 - 0
High input 1 only
Weber Mass 200 attenuator set to 5
Marshal 1960B 4x12 - G12T-75 - SM57 center, approx 30 deg off-axis, 2" off grill
No EQ or processing in DAW
No settings changed between clips

Baseline amp only

SD-1 boost - gain 9:00, max level, tone 12:00

TS9 boost - gain 9:00, max level, tone 12:00

 

[minerman]

I have done it 2 ways:
The first way is with a 16 ohm 200 watt dummy load resistor wired to a 1/4 jack. I run the amps speaker out into the dummy load. Then from a parallel speaker out I run a Behringer Ultra-G DI box into the interface via xlr cable.
RES16-200 Resistor
Behringer Ultra-G GI100 | Sweetwater.com

The second way is by running the amp's speaker out into a Palmer pdi-03 rack unit. It has a built in load and speaker emulated and non-emulated outputs with volume controls which run into the interface via xlr or 1/4 cables.
PDI03L16 Palmer MI PDI 03 - Speaker Simulator with Loadbox 16 Ohms

Thanks for the heads-up man, I was curious about using my DSL with a cab sim. The first option would probably be the route I'd go as it's much cheaper than the Palmer....On the other hand, that Palmer would be killer, the only problem is the $$$$...I plunked down enough on AT4 & Recab 4 to buy a Palmer box, but what's done is done, & honestly, I'm happy with the new software toys I have...Thanks again man....

minerman - those Jube clips don't work anymore.You still got em?

I cleaned up my dropbox a couple days ago (that's the first time I've cleaned it out since I've been posting in this thread, I had an unreal amount of clips in there...lol)....I still have 'em, I'd just have to swap 'em back to another folder...I'll try to figure out which ones they were & re-up 'em dude...

The Red Pig/800 clips all sound pretty good to me. Those might be the best sim clips I've ever heard. well done.

Wow dude, that's a big compliment right there, I appreciate that. I do think AT4 sounds closer to a real amp than anything I've ever tried...Thanks again dude....

Rami: All those clips sound progressively better to me dude. Sometimes it just takes some extra fiddling with the amp/mic to get where you wanna be....
On the condenser thing, I've got 3, & could never really get any of 'em to sound right on their own. But, blended with a '57 or 609, they can add a lot of meat/bottom end...
If you're looking for a cheap Marshall, the DSL would be the way to go man. Like Greg mentioned, they don't do the classic tones (plexi, JCM800) all that well, but the tones they have are pretty good IMO. I like mine quite a bit, but I'm a Marshall fanboy too....
Lt. Bob's got an Orange head he'd sell for a pretty good price too dude, if you're looking to go the Orange route. I personally haven't tried one, but I've heard good things about 'em....
But if you're gonna go the Marshall route on a budget, I highly recommend the DSL, & you could probably find a used one pretty cheap. The combo is 40w with a half-power switch, which would probably work for you. I saw a DSL40 sell in the Marshall forum for around $300 not too long ago....


I actually fired up the DSL today & made some clips, gimme a few minutes & I'll upload 'em....

 

[minerman]

Okay these are for JDude....

Here's them pedals...set as clean boosts only. No dirt - max level - tone control at 12:00

Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge p/u
Marshall JCM 800 2203
Presence - 4
Bass - 7
Mid - 5
Treb - 4
Preamp vol - 6
Master Vol - 3
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Vintage 30 - Audix i5 on axis, on grill, halfway to edge
No EQ or processing in DAW
Nothing changed between clips except stomping on pedals

JCM 800 + V30 base

Boosted with Boss SD-1

Boosted with Ibanez TS9

This one's a simple crappy lead lick raw, then boosted with SD-1, then boosted with TS9, the boosted with both.
Suckage

I personally like the base/un-boosted clip best man, but the TS9 seems like it's a little "meaner" sounding than the SD-1....I really, really like the way that JCM800 sounds dude, I bet it's fuckin' glorious being in the room with it...

 

[minerman]

Here's some nastier pedal pushing just for shits and grins...

This is an amp/speaker/mic combo configuration I don't use often, if ever, but it came out okay I think just for a quickie.

Les Paul Taditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge p/u
Marshall 1987x 50w Plexi
Presence - 4
Bass - 10
Mid - 4
Treble - 8
Vol 1 - 8
Vol 2 - 0
High input 1 only
Weber Mass 200 attenuator set to 5
Marshal 1960B 4x12 - G12T-75 - SM57 center, approx 30 deg off-axis, 2" off grill
No EQ or processing in DAW
No settings changed between clips

Baseline amp only

SD-1 boost - gain 9:00, max level, tone 12:00

TS9 boost - gain 9:00, max level, tone 12:00

TS9 clip all the way here man, it's got more balls to the sound IMO....You sure make me miss my Chupacabra with these clips dude....

 

[JDOD]

TS9 clip all the way here man, it's got more balls to the sound IMO....You sure make me miss my Chupacabra with these clips dude....

Both the boosted clips sound better to me, mate. They sound tighter and more gutsy. It's weird, the clip that seems to have the most murk in it is the straight amp. I probably would go for so much bottom end but they still sound good... I suppose that the luxury of being able to record with loud amps up loud whenever you like!

 

[minerman]

Ok, here's the tones Greg asked about, I just had to move the clips back to another folder....

Signal chain: Ibanez > interface > AT4

Jubilee sim > 4x12 (Greenbacks) > '57 & U87 mics
Jubilee/Greenback

Jubilee sim > 4x12 (G12H) > '57 & U87 mics
Jubilee/G12H

Jubilee sim > 4x12 (V30 "8") > '57 & U87 mics
Jubilee/V30 "8"

Jubilee sim > 4x12 (Brit Silver) > '57 & U87 mics
Jubilee/Brit Silver

Jubilee sim > 4x12 (T12G) > '57 & U87 mics
Jubilee/T12G

Jubilee sim > 4x12 (Brit 75) > '57 & U87 mics
Jubilee/Brit 75


These all seem a little dark to me, I think using a single mic gets better results, but, I'm sure the more I fuck with it, the better I'll get at blending the mics....There are definitely some usable tones in this sim though....


Real amp clips on the way....

 

[Greg_L]

Ok, here's the tones Greg asked about, I just had to move the clips back to another folder....

Signal chain: Ibanez > interface > AT4

Jubilee sim > 4x12 (Greenbacks) > '57 & U87 mics
Jubilee/Greenback

Jubilee sim > 4x12 (G12H) > '57 & U87 mics
Jubilee/G12H

Jubilee sim > 4x12 (V30 "8") > '57 & U87 mics
Jubilee/V30 "8"

Jubilee sim > 4x12 (Brit Silver) > '57 & U87 mics
Jubilee/Brit Silver

Jubilee sim > 4x12 (T12G) > '57 & U87 mics
Jubilee/T12G

Jubilee sim > 4x12 (Brit 75) > '57 & U87 mics
Jubilee/Brit 75


These all seem a little dark to me, I think using a single mic gets better results, but, I'm sure the more I fuck with it, the better I'll get at blending the mics....There are definitely some usable tones in this sim though....


Real amp clips on the way....

Ha that does sound like a Jubilee. Not my favorite amp, but it sounds pretty accurate. I think I like G12H or Brit Silver the best.

 

[Greg_L]

Both the boosted clips sound better to me, mate. They sound tighter and more gutsy. It's weird, the clip that seems to have the most murk in it is the straight amp. I probably would go for so much bottom end but they still sound good... I suppose that the luxury of being able to record with loud amps up loud whenever you like!

"Tighter" is exactly what a front end boost does. It pushes the front end of the amp harder resulting in a tighter, more compressed sound. The straight amp clips are more robust and open sounding naturally.

 

[minerman]

Ok, here's a bunch of clips I did today with my DSL today...Been a while since I'd fired it up, & it sure felt good feeling the thump of my 4x12....

Signal chain for all the clips:

Ibanez RG (Duncan Custom Custom bridge p'up) > DSL100H > 4x12 > '57 (no processing of any kind at all, all raw clips)

Amp settings are all the same except for the first clip....

Ibanez > DSL > GB > '57
green crunch
50w mode
resonance: 0
presence: 8
bass: 2
mid: 2
treble: 9
vol: 8
gain: 8

Green crunch > Greenback




Ibanez > DSL > 4x12 > '57
50w mode
od 1
resonance: O
presence: 8
bass: 3
mid: 2
treble: 5
vol: 8
gain 2

OD1/Greenback

OD1/G12H

OD1/V30

OD1/'65


I also panned (50L/50R) blended these clips (excuse the sloppy playing btw) to see how the different speakers sound blended. Same amp settings...

Greenback left - G12H right

Greenback left - V30 right

Greenback left - 65 right

G12H left - V30 right

G12H left - 65 right

65 left - G12H right

65 left - V30 right

These might seem a little dark (seems I've been doing this a lot the last little while....I used to have everything super-bright...lol), but it could be due to dead strings, mic placement or just the fact I hadn't even fired my amp up in over a month...

Yeah, there's a lotta clips here, I actually felt good enough to do some clips today, lemme know what you guys think if/when you get time...

 

[pikingrin]

Here's some nastier pedal pushing just for shits and grins...

This is an amp/speaker/mic combo configuration I don't use often, if ever, but it came out okay I think just for a quickie.

Les Paul Taditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge p/u
Marshall 1987x 50w Plexi
Presence - 4
Bass - 10
Mid - 4
Treble - 8
Vol 1 - 8
Vol 2 - 0
High input 1 only
Weber Mass 200 attenuator set to 5
Marshal 1960B 4x12 - G12T-75 - SM57 center, approx 30 deg off-axis, 2" off grill
No EQ or processing in DAW
No settings changed between clips

Baseline amp only

SD-1 boost - gain 9:00, max level, tone 12:00

TS9 boost - gain 9:00, max level, tone 12:00

On this one I actually like the SD1 over the tubescreamer, just because it still seems more transparent. Still envious over those Marshalls, and being able to crank them...but, listening on my monitors even the pedals used as a boost sound badass. For me, just as a boost (no gain), the TS9 sounds better. When gain is added I prefer the SD1...ymmv, etc.

Miner, those Jubilee clips are from AT4, right?

 

[minerman]

Ha that does sound like a Jubilee. Not my favorite amp, but it sounds pretty accurate. I think I like G12H or Brit Silver the best.

Thanks man, ya know, I think this new AT4 is really good man. I've not had it long enough to really learn what it will/won't do, but so far, I'm very impressed. I think these ampsim developers are getting the cab section closer. It's still not quite there, but it's getting better....

 

[JDOD]

"Tighter" is exactly what a front end boost does. It pushes the front end of the amp harder resulting in a tighter, more compressed sound. The straight amp clips are more robust and open sounding naturally.

The levels you've gone for tend to be what I go for with sim TubeScreamers too, just that little bit of extra gain. I can't imagine my sister will be able to find me a TubeScreamer at the right price but it will be cool to have the SD1. Its just what I need to finish off the rhythm parts to the heavy sections on many, if not most, of my recent set of songs. Then I'll be handing them over to the bassist and drummer.

 

[JDOD]

Ok, here's a bunch of clips I did today with my DSL today...Been a while since I'd fired it up, & it sure felt good feeling the thump of my 4x12....

Signal chain for all the clips:

Ibanez RG (Duncan Custom Custom bridge p'up) > DSL100H > 4x12 > '57 (no processing of any kind at all, all raw clips)

Amp settings are all the same except for the first clip....

Ibanez > DSL > GB > '57
green crunch
50w mode
resonance: 0
presence: 8
bass: 2
mid: 2
treble: 9
vol: 8
gain: 8

Green crunch > Greenback




Ibanez > DSL > 4x12 > '57
50w mode
od 1
resonance: O
presence: 8
bass: 3
mid: 2
treble: 5
vol: 8
gain 2

OD1/Greenback

OD1/G12H

OD1/V30

OD1/'65


I also panned (50L/50R) blended these clips (excuse the sloppy playing btw) to see how the different speakers sound blended. Same amp settings...

Greenback left - G12H right

Greenback left - V30 right

Greenback left - 65 right

G12H left - V30 right

G12H left - 65 right

65 left - G12H right

65 left - V30 right

These might seem a little dark (seems I've been doing this a lot the last little while....I used to have everything super-bright...lol), but it could be due to dead strings, mic placement or just the fact I hadn't even fired my amp up in over a month...

Yeah, there's a lotta clips here, I actually felt good enough to do some clips today, lemme know what you guys think if/when you get time...

I think the Greenback sounds a little flat and muffled but generally alright.
The G12 is bright but not in a cutting horrible kinda way - its good.
The V30 sounds a little dark but not in a mushy way - its good - I like it.
Don't like the 65, I think that's actually dark and dull.

I really like the blend of the G12 and V30.

 

[rayc]

In the 1st set & the 2nd I prefer the basic unboosted & ungain assisted tone.
Of all the rest I prefer the DS-1 boosted.