The New Tone Thread

minerman said:
Again, sorry for the fuckin' novel I wrote here & going off-topic, but I at least feel better now....:laughings:
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not at all ..... I thought it was pretty damned interesting. After reading the link on Sago I'm even more convinced I ain't going down!


On the tracking level thing ..... my understanding is that in digital world if you don't go higher than -12 you're golden. I actually don't totally understand why but apparently digital guys don't like to touch virtual knobs and want to be able to just sum tracks together and not have them add up to enough to peak the output levels.

Me ...... I'm old school analog so even though I use a digital recorder I still use an analog board so I tend to record things like in the old days .... I get each track as close to peak as I can ( even though I know it's not necessary ) and since for mixing I use a board instead of summing anything ..... I just pull down the output and never go over peak that way.
 
Supposedly, 0 in analog = -18 in the digital meter world, or thereabouts. It depends on how your digital gear is calibrated, and if they don't tell you, you just don't know. So the -12 to -18 range is generally considered safe for pretty much everything.
 
Lt. Bob said:
I thought it was pretty damned interesting. After reading the link on Sago I'm even more convinced I ain't going down!
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I could tell you guys some stories about days at work that'd make the hair on your neck stand up man, & I could also tell you stories that'd make you laugh your ass off (like the whole crew ganging up on a greenhorn (inexperienced guy), stripping all his clothes off, grease the fuck out of him (squash a tube of grease in your hand & just rub that shit all over him), then make him work like that all day for his initiation to being on the crew, mud wrestling, water bottle fights, all kinds of fun shit...:laughings:), but a lot of people don't really know much about the fun we have in there, most only hear about the bad shit that happens, like Sago. The week before the Aracoma fire, there was a guy that came to work at my mine from there. He was on the crew that lost the 2 men in the smoke...There was a time I loved mining coal, but like I've mentioned, all the changing laws, & all the bullshit have changed it, a lot...


Ok, back to the thread, I usually try to hit about -12 in the daw's meter, like Greg, it gives me a little wiggle room in case a transient (like the extra bass when you palm-mute) strays a little higher...
 
Greg_L said:
Supposedly, 0 in analog = -18 in the digital meter world, or thereabouts. It depends on how your digital gear is calibrated, and if they don't tell you, you just don't know. So the -12 to -18 range is generally considered safe for pretty much everything.
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yeah, that's what I read from people posting on it.
I record all my tracks higher than that ..... as close to the red as I can go without clipping.
Although I have gotten a bit more relaxed about recording at lower levels than that.
But, as I said, since I mix in an analog board it doesn't really matter if I track high because there's no such thing as summing and then running out of headroom. I set the gain on each channel of the board to not clip and I'm golden.

And actually. in analog-tape world, it's not uncommon to deliberately go into the red. You don't want that in digital because you can get a horrible distortion ...... but with tape you might just get extra 'warmth'.
 
minerman said:
I know you've told me umpteen times Bob, but what gear do you use to record your stuff???
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A couple of Fostex D1624s. They're digital recorders but they're 'stand-alone like a reel to reel. No built in mixing ability or anything ..... just a recorder with 16 ins and outs the same as if you had a 16 channel tape machine.
So you have to have an analog mixing board and hardware fx etc.
There's no 'puter monitor or keyboard anywhere near my music room and I do nothing on a 'puter as far as recording goes at all.
 
Fixed! It actually works better now. This new rheostat is a lot smoother and seems to be more linear. I wonder if the one that broke was squirrely to begin with.
 
OK, so I've missed some of the previous conversations, so how much attenuation does this thing provide?

Do you think it gives you better tone than an Iso-cab, and how does the attenuation compare?
 
notCardio said:
OK, so I've missed some of the previous conversations, so how much attenuation does this thing provide?

Do you think it gives you better tone than an Iso-cab, and how does the attenuation compare?
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I've posted about ten thousand clips with the attenuator with different very loud amps. Go check em out if you wanna hear it. I know this thread is huge now, but by date, I think I started clips with it around last may.

To answer your question, it provides a full range of attenuation, from none to silence.

Does it give better tone than an iso cab? I'm not sure. They're very different tools for very different needs. Attenuators can squeeze an amp down to bedroom volumes, but that's not really where they do their best work. I got this attenuator so I can use my fire breathing amps at normal gigs. The attenuator turning down the amp a little does sound better to me than using a master volume on the same amp. Power tubes baby. I want mine melting. At mucho attenuation, it does color the sound a little. But I think the main thing is the speaker reaction. At a lot of attenuation, the speakers just don't kick out the jams like they do at bigger volumes. Their positive attributes towards the finished sound are negated by little volumes. In that regard, an iso box is a good thing. The box itself is the attenuator. You can crank the amp into the box and have the speaker going crazy. But you're limited by size and a single speaker most of the time. I have no use for an iso box. My amps would mutilate a single speaker unless I use a very high wattage single speaker, and I've never met one that sounds good to me. Ambient noise is not a concern for me anyway. I can be as loud as I want.
 
Glad you got your attenuator fixed Greg...does seem strange it broke & was acting/feeling strange when you'd turn the dial....Good job dude...


notCardio said:
OK, so I've missed some of the previous conversations, so how much attenuation does this thing provide?

Do you think it gives you better tone than an Iso-cab, and how does the attenuation compare?
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Greg has posted a shit-ton of clips showing how much it'll knock the db level down. I'm sure you can get it down to whisper quiet if you'd want, but you'll lose the speaker being pushed, which is just a part of the cranked amp sound as the power tubes are to me...

If noise is a concern dude, I bet using an attenuator combined with an ISO cab could have potential. But, no offense, I personally don't think it'd happen with the Randall ISO cab myself, YMMV.....

I did briefly use my home-made ISO cab with my DSL100H, but I always used the amp in 50w mode, or had the volume way down on it because I didn't wanna blow my speaker. It sounded decent, but IMO could be a lot better....I never got to try my Chupacabra with that thing, by the time the Ceriatone arrived, I'd already got the Randall....

notCardio: here are the first clips I posted with the DSL100H when I first got it. I used the home-made ISO cab, & it was pretty much at a tv level in the room IIRC...Sorry to drag these clips up, but trying to give this guy some reference of what my shitty looking ISO cab sounded like...Plus these clips are the same amp settings, half using a Greenback, & half using a V30...
 
minerman said:
Glad you got your attenuator fixed Greg...does seem strange it broke & was acting/feeling strange when you'd turn the dial....Good job dude...
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Thanks. It's not strange that it broke. It fell from from about 6ft straight to the ceramic tile. Well, it it did bounce off my grill cloth a little first. Lol. Those pots in there are ceramic. I'm just glad nothing worse happened! This new part just feels smoother. But all's well again. I'll try to be more careful from now on. :D
 
minerman said:
Ok guys, just fucking around as usual, but trying to keep our thread goin', here's a couple tones I recorded today.....I'll say first, they sound really similar, and it actually surprised me, maybe it's just the way I dial the amps in to where I think it sounds best in the room, then do the mic thing, dunno, but again, these sound almost alike....

I had the '57 on the G12H with a half-assed off-axis thing, & it seemed to have worked out fairly well. I still need to dial both the amp/mic in a little better, but this is one of my first attempts at the off-axis thing....

LP > DSL100 > G12H > SM57 (raw track, nothing added in the daw)
100w mode
OD2
Resonance: 5
Presence: 10
Bass: 5.5
Middle: 4.5
Treble: 5
Volume: 3
Gain: 4
Mid-Shift: Off

DSL100



LP > Chupacabra > G12H > SM57 (raw track, nothing added in the daw)
Resonance: 3
Presence: 3
Bass: 5
Middle: 5
Treble: 4
Master: 8
Gain 2: 6
Gain 1: 5
Era: Modern
Bright 2: C
Bright 1: R
Focus: off

Chupacabra

The Chupa has just a hair more low/low-mids here, but I think either/or would work in a mix...Again, just fuckin' around....First time I've even picked up my guitar in almost a week...
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They are kind of similar, but the Chupa kills the DSL to me in those clips. The DSL is missing some mids compared to the Chupacabra....in those clips. Looking at your settings, I think maybe having the presence jacked and resonance up on the DSL is why the mids seems a little weaker in the DSL clip. You've got super enhanced lows and highs from those two knobs alone. But they both sound good. If it were me I'd run with that Chupa sound all day long.

I'm liking the sound you get with that G12H30 too dude. I might have to get me some.
 
Greg_L said:
They are kind of similar, but the Chupa kills the DSL to me in those clips. The DSL is missing some mids compared to the Chupacabra....in those clips. Looking at your settings, I think maybe having the presence jacked and resonance up on the DSL is why the mids seems a little weaker in the DSL clip. You've got super enhanced lows and highs from those two knobs alone. But they both sound good. If it were me I'd run with that Chupa sound all day long.

I'm liking the sound you get with that G12H30 too dude. I might have to get me some.
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G12H30 > Greenback, IMHO.
 
jonny deep said:
I just prefer the sound. Not sure I can give any explanation as to why.
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Gotcha. I'd certainly like to give some a try. I hear them a lot with other amps, and they're usually small-ish combos, so I can't really tell if I like them or not. I'd like to hear my own monsters through some. Miner's G12H clips have been getting better and better. I think his is finally breaking in.
 
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