The New Tone Thread

antichef said:
Thanks for this - you're having a much better time with attenuation than I did. I have a weber Micromass I think but it's not beefy enough for the big amps. It does sound very good within its depth, though. I really like the Attenuator at 6 normalized sound. The TV volume one seems like it took a pretty big low frequency hit, but it's still a usable sound.
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Thanks dude. Yeah the "attenuator at 6" is pretty good to me too. It didn't have to be normalized, I just did that to make those three all about the same listening level. It's still loud enough for gigs and probably way louder than most would record at.

I have a Marshall power brake - I told you all about blowing a fuse when I turned the knob on it (as if it were a break-before-make switch or something). Maybe I should just resolve to turn off the amp before I change the attenuation setting.
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I've heard too many bad stories about the power brake to even really consider one for myself when shopping around. Everything from what you just mentioned to it being a major tone sucker. And they're expensive. No thanks.

On a side note, I may have just scored some greenback speakers - I'll update soon
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Awesome! Vintage or reissues?
 
Kick ass antichef! I think those brit reissues are pretty awesome. I sure like mine. I don't know what you were using before, but I'm certain your tone just got better. :D

Okay I'm about to bombard yall with some clips again...

First up, the JVM for minerman. This one was tricky because it's got a channel volume per channel and two master volumes. You can juggle the channel vs master vol, and the second master vol is like a lead boost vol. To cut out the middleman, I just dimed the channel volume and used master vol 1 as the only control. These will hopefully demonstrate the tone differences or indifference that the vol controls and/or attenuator has on this amp.

Angus SG
Marshall JVM - OD1 Green mode
Resonance - 0
Presence - 3
Bass - 4
Mid - 8
Treb - 6
Gain - 3
Marshall 1960b 4x12 - Vintage 30 - e609 dustcap/cone, Audix i5 edge, full blend
Both mics on axis, on grill
No EQ

Okay this first one is just amp and cab, channel vol on 10, master vol on 8. Real loud. I'll record this loud, but can't gig this loud. We'll consider this the JVM baseline for these clips.
JVM/V30 master vol 8 no attenuator

These two are brought down to "gig volumes" via master vol and attenuator. These are loud enough for a band, loud enough to play good gigs, still way loud in the room. For the attenuator clip, I jacked the master vol back up to baseline level and only used the attenuator for vol reduction.
Gig vol, master vol 5
Gig vol w/ attenuator

These are at at-home-jamming TV volume with the mic pres still set for mega loudness. To get it way down low for the master vol only clip, I also turned the channel vol down from 10 to 2. The TV vol attenuator clip is with the amp at baseline superloud settings, only turned down with the attenuator..
JVM master vol 2 TV volume
JVM attenuator TV vol

And the loudest and quietest normalized for relatively equal listening.
JVM/V30 master vol 8 no attenuator
JVM master vol 2 TV volume - normalized
JVM attenuator TV volume - normalized

So that's that. I have my own opinions, see what you think. Next up....big nasty JCM 800.
 
nice - did you use the treble compensation on the attenuated one? Sounds trebl-ier than the earlier clips. I have to say I like the unbridled one the best. The attenuated one sounded good but a little harsh on my system here - still maybe my second favorite. I thought the MV TV Vol sounded fine too - not harsh. Maybe it's a tie for 2nd place, but those two are pretty different.

Oh - and I was using the 75 watt celestions before. I made some clips of the greenbacks just now, but I'll wait for a dead spot in the thread so we can focus
 
hahahahaha!

King of the fucking hill!! That's awesome. :D:D:D


I liked the volume brought down via attenuator much more than via master volume.
No contest really ..... but best of all was the unattenuated loud clip. The attenuator gets really close though
 
Lol....yeah Bob, fuckin' Hank Hill......lol...


I like all of 'em man, but I gotta say, I never thought I'd hear your pick hitting your strings in any clip you post here......


Top of the heap for me is the non-attenuated vol on 8 clips man, no doubt about it, second for me, believe it or not, is the attenuated tv volume at the end (the very last clip), it's got something in the mids that I like....

All of 'em are good man, I seem to lean toward the attenuated clips except for the baseline clip......
 
That's guys. I use King of the Hill at soundchecks pretty often. It always gets people's attention. :D

I think I overdid the attenuator's treble compensation on the very last attenuated TV volume clip. It shouldn't be that bright, but it is what it is. For me, these clips just confirm how the JVM doesn't really change much from TV volume to blowing your head off. This is an amp that gets most of it's goods from the preamp section and the power section stays pretty tight. The normalized TV volume via master volume clip and the full blast clip don't really sound that much different. The attenuated TV clip is a little screwed up by my operator error with the attenuator. But there is a midrangey grind in the baseline and attenuated clips that isn't there in the master volume controlled clips. So the attenuator is doing what it's supposed to do - give cranked tones at lesser volumes. Using the master volume does indeed take something away IMO, but it isn't that drastic with this amp. It's much more noticeable to me with the JCM 800 and JMP 2204. They will be next.

I used the attenuator with my Hallmark Mosrite clone and the 2204 at band practice last night, and wow! That was the shit. I put the gain on like 6, master vol on 8, and turned it down a few notches with the attenuator. Fantastic.
 
I'm doing profiling with a friend's Kemper at the moment. Its really, really good. The real amps are tad less compressed on high gain sounds but otherwise indistinguishable without a direct comparison. Its cool that it has an A/B function on the amp.

ycEEFBi.jpg

Used a 421, 606 and a 57 through the Kemper dude's 2x12 V30 Orange cab.

What's cool is that you can profile a crunchy amp like an 800 and add a lot of gain to it on the Kemper. It becomes an interesting combination of the original sound and something else. We also put a Tubescreamer in the signal chain but it had hardly any effect besides gently adding some mid range.
 
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Okay, next up the JCM 800 with and without the attenuator. I waffle back and forth between the 800 and the 100w Plexi being my own personal favorites, but this one usually gets the nod. As far as I'm concerned, this amp rules them all. This amp has the perfect tone for what I like to do.

Gibson Angus SG again - bridge pickup
Marshall JCM 800 2203
Presence - 6
Bass - 6
Mid - 5
Treb - 7
Preamp vol - 7
Marshall 1960b 4x12 - Vintage 30 - Senn e609 dustcap/cone - Audix i5 edge - equal blend
Both mics on axis, on grill
No EQ

First up, the "baseline". Master vol on 8, no attenuator. Unbelievably loud. Way too loud for a bar/club gig. Good for recording if your neighbors can stand it. In my own personal opinion, for my own wants and needs, rock and roll guitar tone doesn't get much better than this.
JCM 800 master vol 8

Now we'll turn it down to "gig friendly" levels with the master volume and attenuator. The attenuated clip has the amp at baseline vol setting (8), and turned down only with the attenuator.
JCM 800 gig volume - master vol 5
JCM 800 gig volume w/ attenuator

Now for jonnydeep, this is at what he called "moderate recording" level. Not quite gig loud, but still probably too loud for peaceful jamming at home without disturbing others in the house. Much louder than a TV, but not so loud that it hurts you ears too bad. Again, I turned the master volume up to 8 and turned it back down with the attenuator for the attenuator clip. I did use the treble compensation on the attenuator at this point.
JCM 800 master vol 2.5 - moderate recording volume
JCM 800 moderate recording vol w/ attenuator

And now, pretty much useless quiet TV volume clips. This is not an amp for peaceful jamming at low levels. The JVM does this sort of thing way way better. Like the others, the attenuated clip is with the amp turned up to 8, and turned back down only with the attenuator.
JCM 800 master vol 1 - TV volume
JCM 800 TV volume w/ attenuator

A few clips normalized for same relative loudness comparison.
JCM 800 master vol 8 - normalized
JCM 800 master vol 1 TV vol - normalized
JCM 800 TV vol w/ attenuator - normalized

So that's the JCM 800. Next up, it's older but smaller brother the 50w JMP 2204 master volume.
 
Greg_L said:
Okay, next up the JCM 800 with and without the attenuator. I waffle back and forth between the 800 and the 100w Plexi being my own personal favorites, but this one usually gets the nod. As far as I'm concerned, this amp rules them all. This amp has the perfect tone for what I like to do.

Gibson Angus SG again - bridge pickup
Marshall JCM 800 2203
Presence - 6
Bass - 6
Mid - 5
Treb - 7
Preamp vol - 7
Marshall 1960b 4x12 - Vintage 30 - Senn e609 dustcap/cone - Audix i5 edge - equal blend
Both mics on axis, on grill
No EQ

First up, the "baseline". Master vol on 8, no attenuator. Unbelievably loud. Way too loud for a bar/club gig. Good for recording if your neighbors can stand it. In my own personal opinion, for my own wants and needs, rock and roll guitar tone doesn't get much better than this.
JCM 800 master vol 8

Now we'll turn it down to "gig friendly" levels with the master volume and attenuator. The attenuated clip has the amp at baseline vol setting (8), and turned down only with the attenuator.
JCM 800 gig volume - master vol 5
JCM 800 gig volume w/ attenuator

Now for jonnydeep, this is at what he called "moderate recording" level. Not quite gig loud, but still probably too loud for peaceful jamming at home without disturbing others in the house. Much louder than a TV, but not so loud that it hurts you ears too bad. Again, I turned the master volume up to 8 and turned it back down with the attenuator for the attenuator clip. I did use the treble compensation on the attenuator at this point.
JCM 800 master vol 2.5 - moderate recording volume
JCM 800 moderate recording vol w/ attenuator

And now, pretty much useless quiet TV volume clips. This is not an amp for peaceful jamming at low levels. The JVM does this sort of thing way way better. Like the others, the attenuated clip is with the amp turned up to 8, and turned back down only with the attenuator.
JCM 800 master vol 1 - TV volume
JCM 800 TV volume w/ attenuator

A few clips normalized for same relative loudness comparison.
JCM 800 master vol 8 - normalized
JCM 800 master vol 1 TV vol - normalized
JCM 800 TV vol w/ attenuator - normalized

So that's the JCM 800. Next up, it's older but smaller brother the 50w JMP 2204 master volume.
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Awesome, thanks for doing these! I'm getting ready to fly to a stag weekend in Amsterdam right now, but I'll have to come back and listen when I get back.
 
Awesome baseline tone man, kick-ass sound....I can really hear that the power tubes really, really make a difference in the sound of that particular amp Greg, no doubt about it...

Like the previous clips, I like the un-attenuated/baseline clip the best, & then the gig-level attenuated, it's just got something in the mids that I really like, but there's no comparison in these clips at all to me though dude, the baseline destroys 'em all...
 
minerman said:
Awesome baseline tone man, kick-ass sound....I can really hear that the power tubes really, really make a difference in the sound of that particular amp Greg, no doubt about it...

Like the previous clips, I like the un-attenuated/baseline clip the best, & then the gig-level attenuated, it's just got something in the mids that I really like, but there's no comparison in these clips at all to me though dude, the baseline destroys 'em all...
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Yeah the power section does a lot of work for the tone of this amp. To me that's what makes this one, and the 2204, so damn righteous. But it's also why it has to be deafeningly loud to sound "right". At gig volume, the attenuator does a nice job of preserving those grinding EL34 mids, so I'm real pleased about that. You can hear the amp lose some ooomph when it's turned down with the master volume. To me this is a case where an attenuator after a master volume amp is a good thing. It didn't seem to matter as much with the JVM.
 
Yeah man, the 800 definitely looses it's "oomph" when the power tubes aren't pushed as hard...it still sounds pretty good at lower levels, but it's still not "that" sound with that amp...

The reason I wanted you to do the JVM (and thanks man, you popped that one out first...:)) is because I'm thinking of getting an attenuator, but to be honest, I don't think I'd benefit from one. The DSL is pretty much like your JVM, the power tubes do come into play, but it's mainly pre-amp sound. The Ceriatone on the other hand, in plexi mode would probably sound righteous with an attenuator, but, I've also got the other 2 modes where I can get a pretty close approximation of "that" sound at lower levels...So really, I don't think an attenuator would benefit me right now...
 
Nope, probably not. Your DSL is like the JVM in that it's heavy on the preamp. Not much need for an attenuator there. I was playing with my bandmate's DSL and it acts just like the JVM. It pretty much stays the same all the way through the dial. The power section stays pretty tight. If you're not getting much power section squish anyway, there's not much point in an attenuator.
 
Speaking of weed, a few days ago a buddy of mine dropped by, & he's been a smoker all his life, so he pulls out about a half a joint & gives it to me....I hadn't smoked any herb for about 10 years now, if not longer, & I'm just here to tell you, I took 3 big hits off that thing, held it in my lungs as long as possible, and......:eek:.holy fuck!!!!!! That was some really, really good pot man, of course it'd been years since I'd done that, but holy fuck, 3 hits??? I remember when I was smoking daily I could smoke a whole joint by myself, but not this shit...Dunno what it was called, but the potheads around here have definitely stepped up their game....

FWIW, the shit we get around here usually ain't much compared to what's in the cities, most of the weed is grown around here, & if there's any powder it's usually stepped on so much by the time it gets around here, it ain't worth a fuck...
 
I think that anybody with half a brain is growing their own stuff nowadays, which can be rather potent. It's just too easy and depending on your country, nobody actually cares enough to check.
 
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