The New Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

not much .... and to get even that it has to be freakin' LOUD!!

I do think the Ampegs are louder than an equivalent Marshall.
I took the V2 head over to a friends house a few months ago and we ran it into a 4x12 Marshall cab ....... he played it a while .... turned it up ..... played some more ..... turned it up ..... maybe got about halfway up and started laughing ...... he stopped and said, "That thing's stupid loud!"

Though I've always said I like a pristine clean ( something I seem to be moving away from actually) the Ampegs are more of a 'tweed' sort of clean where you get a slight bit of dirt when you bear down on the strings.
But for any real distortion you have to use a pedal.

I love the Ampegs actually ....... they have the best tone controls ever which were way advanced for the late 60's when they were designed.
On my Ampegs I still use the 7027a power tubes which, though they're just a beefed up 6L6, I think they have their own sound which I like a lot.

They are amazing sounding amps ...... a full rich sound that's just inspiring to play.
I'd still be using them as my main amps if they weren't so heavy.

Even the V2 head alone weighs around 50 pounds and my VT40 combo (their equivalent of the Super Reverb with 4x10s and 60 watts) weighs 95lbs and the VT22 (their version of a Twin ..... 2x12 and 120 watts ) weighs 105lbs!

As for whether they're just bass amps or not ..... I dunno.
They're definitely not bass amps people just chose to use for guitar .... they were absolutely sold as guitar amps with slightly different model numbers than the bass amps.
But the tone control set-up on my Ampegs is exactly the same as the V4B head and exactly the same as the SVT so maybe they're the same amps inside.

My understanding is that Mr Ampeg designer was old school and in the 60s that meant he thought distortion was an amp-fault and designed these to stay clean even wide open and damned if they don't basically do that.

Lol. That's awesome. Do you think they seem so loud because they stay cleaner longer? Like some of those old 60 watt, or whatever they are, Fender combos seem loud as fucking hell. Like painfully loud because they're so clean and punchy.

 

[TripleM]

I've been using a lot of these tones as reference over the last few weeks. I had a computer hardware blowout about a month ago that caused me to have to upgrade my rig quite a bit (long story - don't ask). But anyway, with my new interface I'm hearing things a bit better than before. And listening to some of these tones, it strikes me that the manner of playing affects the tone considerably. There was one of these chunky samples (I think it was Greg's but it could have been minerman's - not sure), where it struck me that you were only hitting maybe 3-4 guitar strings. I always just whack away at all 6. But cutting that back *really* can change the tone. Whether it's a good change or a bad change is an opinion. But it makes a substantial difference.

Probably remedial stuff to you guys. Not sure why I even wrote this.

 

[Greg_L]

I've been using a lot of these tones as reference over the last few weeks. I had a computer hardware blowout about a month ago that caused me to have to upgrade my rig quite a bit (long story - don't ask). But anyway, with my new interface I'm hearing things a bit better than before. And listening to some of these tones, it strikes me that the manner of playing affects the tone considerably. There was one of these chunky samples (I think it was Greg's but it could have been minerman's - not sure), where it struck me that you were only hitting maybe 3-4 guitar strings. I always just whack away at all 6. But cutting that back *really* can change the tone. Whether it's a good change or a bad change is an opinion. But it makes a substantial difference.

Probably remedial stuff to you guys. Not sure why I even wrote this.

Lol. That's true. I bet minerman and me could play the same guitar through the same setup and record the results and they will sound vastly different.

 

[minerman]

I know I need to start working these tones into mixes Greg, I know dude...I'm gonna start finishing up these songs this week, I'm pretty sure the drum programming is gonna be ok, I just need to get them done...

Triple M: That could've been me with the 3-4 string chords dude, I play like that most, if not all of the time...LOL...Good to see you back...


Gotta run, off to work....I hate fuckin' Mondays, but, gotta do what I gotta do.....be back about 12 tonight...

 

[Lt. Bob]

Lol. That's awesome. Do you think they seem so loud because they stay cleaner longer? Like some of those old 60 watt, or whatever they are, Fender combos seem loud as fucking hell. Like painfully loud because they're so clean and punchy.

that seems reasonable to me.
An old Fender Twin is only 85 watts and they're super loud. This V2 head is only 60 watts but holy crap it's loud.

Distortion is always accompanied with compression so that smooths off the attack some.
So it would make sense that a cleaner sound comes across as louder.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Lol. That's true. I bet minerman and me could play the same guitar through the same setup and record the results and they will sound vastly different.

ya'll should try that ...... match a couple of your amps and gits and settings and then play the same clip.

That'd be cool to hear.

 

[Greg_L]

that seems reasonable to me.
An old Fender Twin is only 85 watts and they're super loud. This V2 head is only 60 watts but holy crap it's loud.

Distortion is always accompanied with compression so that smooths off the attack some.
So it would make sense that a cleaner sound comes across as louder.

That's how it seems to me. The natural compression of overdrive makes the savage loudness seem smoother. My cranked Plexi is loud as all fuck, but it's a smooth roar of loudness. That JCM 800 clip I did earlier had the volume cranked but the gain down low so it was a punchy biting kind of sound, and it was ungodly loud. Pound for pound it seemed way louder than even the Plexi at full roar. It was pants flapping make your hair move loud.

ya'll should try that ...... match a couple of your amps and gits and settings and then play the same clip.

That'd be cool to hear.

We talked about that earlier. I'd like to try it, but we don't have the same amps. He'd have to determine how his Chupacabra is at it's most natural Super Lead mode.

 

[ShanPeyton]

Hey guys! Long time no see. I can not believe for the life of me this thread is STILL going. So cool!!!! Thought i would pop in and say hey. (Again) Hopefully i will see more of you in the near future. I just bought a HOUSE! (First home) move in on the 14th of Nov. AND i will have some space to myself for the musics that will not be shared with my wife (lol maybe) or a landlord. If i want to paint the walls green and hang sound treatments up i finally can with out feeling bad about it.

AND>>>>>>

My brother is now and expecting his first born and he is 80% of the way to agreeing to let me keep his Orange AD30 (w/4x12 Cab in my soon to be man-cave/studio. How cool is that? All of the Orange awesome for the low low price of "FREE" (maybe, he is still having a hard time deciding if he wants to do that! Can you blame him?) Either way i have the option of borrowing it from for a weekend here or there.

that and i allowed myself some wiggle room with finances to upgrade this POS windows xp machine so i can finish up all these half assed punk rock masterpieces i have laying around.

Update: that Sparrow guitar i got earlier this year plays like a freakin dream. A DREAM! So happy with that guitar. Has some trouble with the intonation intermittently but i chok that all up to the dry dry climate here in Alberta!

I miss this place So glad to see this thread alive and kickin.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Hey mang ..... good to see ya', don't be a stranger.

 

[Lt. Bob]

okely dokely .....

A couple of months ago I got an Electro Harmonix B9 Organ Machine stompbox and said I'd put up some clips of it being used real-world.

Tonight I was combing thru some live recordings I'd made for some people who wanted copies and came across these.
So I just threw them down .... didn't even crossfade or anything .... just jumps from clip to clip.

One thing ........ these are from the very first time I ever used the pedal. ...... ever!
I literally got it in from UPS, unboxed it ...... had about 15 minutes to make sure it worked and then headed to the gig.
Got there ..... set up everything and started playing.
I don't get to do that many band gigs so I wasn't gonna wait for another chance to use the thing.

Started drinking too .... .... me and the drumber had a bottle of fireball.
So it was a party and this was the first time ever that I dueled with the pedal and it really requires that you play in a particular way to make it trigger properly.
This was my first time with it but I think you'll be a bit surprised.

This is just like any stompbox ..... guitar into pedal into amp.
I have it plugged into the front end of my Mark V.
I used two mics into a DR-5 to record the band with one mic being right in front of the Mark V.
I have that one a lot louder than the other side so you can clearly hear the pedal.

I'm the only guitar player (3 piece rhythm section ) and the organ is NOT routed to the PA so when you hear it switch between guitar and organ both sounds are coming from that amp's single 12" which is a Weber Michigan.

 

[minerman]

Shan: Good to hear from ya brother....stop by anytime....I predict this thread will go on & on....Me, Gerg, & Bob are usually the main ones here most of the time, but we still have others stop by once in a while...Good to hear from you dude...

Bob: Cool man, it actually sounds like an organ instead of a pedal trying to sound like one....Super job for the first time using it too, waaaay cool man!!!

Greg: On the "plexi" thing between us, I think with my amp in "regular" mode (era switch centered), both bright switches centered should be as close as I can get to your amp dude....I do know with the switches set like that, when I dime the gains, it gets fuzzy, mushy, just like you described a true super lead/plexi doing....I'll try to upload a clip of it in the morning, & we'll see if we can get the ball rolling on this, I'd really like to know if I've got anything close to the real thing or not....

 

[Greg_L]

Shan muthafucking payton. Hey dude, congrats on the house.

Boob, that shit is bad ass. Sounds exactly like an organ. It's funny, in that clip the way the guitar and organ trade off it sounds like two guys doing band battle on a stage. "My solo, no MY solo!" Sounds cool as shit though. Your slight break up clean guitar tone sounds great too.

Minerman, okay we can try it. So what do we have in common? Les Pauls, SM57s, and a 4x12 with G12-T75s in it? I think we should keep everything as similar as possible.

 

[minerman]

Minerman, okay we can try it. So what do we have in common? Les Pauls, SM57s, and a 4x12 with G12-T75s in it? I think we should keep everything as similar as possible.

Yep, the only thing different really are our p'ups & hands dude....Gimme just a little while (I've gotta wake up before I crank the fuckin' amp....LOL) & I'll post a clip...

Before I do, you wanna set the controls to "5" on everything??? The resonance control on my amp, what do you suggest on that dude??? "5" on the dial, or turn it off completely??? Lemme know, I'll post the clip before I leave today if you can get back to me before say, 12 noon here (it's about 10 am now...)...

 

[Greg_L]

I have no idea what to do. I don't have "gain" or "resonance" control. Do I jump my inputs? If so, what blend? And what about my PPIMV? It's not like a typical master volume. Nothing on a Super Lead is like typical anything.

 

[minerman]

I honestly have no idea dude....LOL...

Let's just say that my gain 2/gain 1 are your channel volumes....turn your PPIMV all the way up where it doesn't affect the volume at all, & set everything to "5", I'll do the same, with my switches centered....

I think the way my amp's gain knobs are is this:

Gain 2 would be the same as your "hi treble" volume knob???
Gain 1 would be the same as your "normal" volume knob???

The only thing that might be different this way (unless I'm way off...which I probably am...) is the resonance knob & the channels being jumped on your amp...I guess...I'm assuming my amp's channels are hard-wired to be jumped however the fuck most people did it with these amps....

Lemme know, I've got about an hour or so to fuck with it before I have to leave, & if we can't get it done today, it'll be tomorrow because I can't use the 4x12 after work like that....Lemme know, & we'll try this dude...And we need to figure out some simple little riffs to play that both of us can do fairly easy....LOL...

 

[Greg_L]

Lol. Ok whatever. PPIMV cranked out of the circuit. I'll just put everything on 5 without the channels jumped. Hi input 1 only.

So we'll both use a Les Paul and a 57 on a G12T-75. Where do you wanna put the mic? What song should we play? I can't play all that Van Haerosmith stuff.

 

[ShanPeyton]

I like where this is going. What fun.


And here i am just sitting here workin'

 

[minerman]

Uuuuuhhhhh......LOL.....I feel like Butthead dude.....uuuuhhhh.....hahaha!!!


I think my channels are jumped/hardwired, but not sure, let's do this:

I'll put everything on "5", bass, mids, treble, presence, master, gain 2, gain 1....I'll turn the resonance completely off, & put the mic at the cap/cone thing....that should be pretty simple....I guess....

On your end, jump your channels to where both volumes work at the same time??? I dunno man, lemme know on this one, the rest should be pretty simple...

On the riff....lemme think....how about just a stupid 12-bar blues thing in "E"??? You know, E, A, E, B, A, E??? Lemme know dude, should be fun if nothing else...LOL...

 

[Greg_L]

The only reservations I have with jumping the channels is 1) it's not an option I ever use, and 2) not that many others do it either.

It's kind of overblown, and a just a little of the second channel jumped in goes a really long way. Having them even-steven is overkill.

I think, my own personal opinion, that the Super Lead sound is best represented with just the High Treble Input 1.

 

[minerman]

Ok....got the amp on, got the mic threw on the cab, I'll record a short clip & post it....

I suppose just do whatever with your channels dude, I honestly have no idea....

Be back in a few with a clip....