Soundcraft... or something else?

steelphantom

steelphantom

New member
I currently have a Delta 1010LT to go into my computer, but I want to have at least 8 preamps that I can use for recording drums and other instruments as a definite step up from the Delta's 2 pres. I will be getting a seperate one for vocals at some point in the future. I'd like to know how the quality of the Soundcraft pres stack up against the Delta's, and also against:

Presonus Digimax LT
M-Audio Octane
Studio Projects SP828

These last 3 are all 8 preamps in a 1 or 2 rackspace unit, but I can buy a Soundcraft M12 mixer with 12 preamps for way less than any of these on eBay. If the pres on the Soundcraft are nearly as good, as good, or better, than hands down I will be purchasing an M8 or M12 to hook up with my Delta. I'd appreciate any thoughts on any of the gear mentioned. Thanks.
 
I use a Soundcraft M12 and love the pres. You can't buy 8 nicer pres for under 1k. I have a a pair of 3Qs and just bought a Tampa for some flavor. I will also say that the M12 pres sound better then the new
Onyx pres. And Soundcrafts EQ can't be touched. You want go wrong by getting the M12 and I would just add a few out board pres for flavor.
 
You'd be lucky to find someone who has practical experience using all of the gear you've mentioned (but you never know?).

I'd guess that a mixer such as a soundcraft would have marginally better pres than the 1010's. I have a small Tapco (by Mackie) mixer and I prefer it's (two) pres to my 1010LT's.

I'd also guess that the pre's you've mentioned would be an upgrade from the soundcraft pres but probably not a huge upgrade.

You'll notice that I'm 'guessing' quite a bit :D . You'd do well to get out to a few shops and try some of this stuff out.

If I were you I'd go with the mixer as this would give you your 8 pres and routing choices, headphone inputs etc. also. Then save a bit more money and buy a few decent (or at least significantly better than your mixer) standalone pres for use on vocals/lead instruments etc.
 
Thanks guys. All I really need the 8 preamps to do is to get me a pretty good drum recording. If anyone has experience with the Digimax, Octane, or SP828, let me know your thoughts on those as well, please.
 
Thats what I use a Soundcraft M12. They make Mackie pres sound like Mickey Mouse gear. You can't touch 8 channels of those pre for under 1K. They are the same design as the Soundcraft Ghost.
 
I don't really think you'd hear an appreciable difference between the Soundcraft and something like the Octane. Plus you'd be getting all those extra channels of that nice Soundcraft EQ. And you'd have a mixer for all the extra routing you might want/need at some point. My vote goes to the Soundcraft.
 
I've been thinking about upgrading my Mackie board to a Soundcraft. I record live so I need a lot of preamps; can't afford several good ones.

What would happen if I used the pre's in the board, then put one really nice tube pre added in for flavor in an aux send (like an effect). Then I could dial in a certain amount of tube per channel depending on the instrument/application etc.? Am I going to harm any equipment? Add noise?

I tried this with my Mackie and a cheap ART TPS, and I liked the results. The Mackie pres are clean, and I can dial in a little warmth as needed. I just don't know if that's going to cause problems. If not, I'd like to get a Soundcraft board and one nice tube pre.

Any help?
 
leddy said:
What would happen if I used the pre's in the board, then put one really nice tube pre added in for flavor in an aux send (like an effect). Then I could dial in a certain amount of tube per channel depending on the instrument/application etc.? Am I going to harm any equipment? Add noise?
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Doesn't it kind of defeat the purpse to have a really nice tube pre . . . just so you can use it as an effect for distortion? :D You could do the same thing with a cheap, shitty pre and get the same effect. In fact, most of the cheap tube pres already have that capability built in, so that would just be redundant.

If you've got a nice tube mic pre . . . then you're gonna' want to plug your mic in to it and go line in to bypass your mixer's pre. Just trust me on this one.
 
leddy said:
What would happen if I used the pre's in the board, then put one really nice tube pre added in for flavor in an aux send (like an effect). Then I could dial in a certain amount of tube per channel depending on the instrument/application etc.? Am I going to harm any equipment? Add noise?
Click to expand...

I'm an unashamed fan of cheap tube pres for what they are, but not sure about this. The signal coming out of the mixer is gonna be fairly hot and wouldn't need much gain, so I'm not sure where the warmth is gonna come from. You'd have to attenuate the aux send a lot to get any tube gain.

In other news, I have the Presonus LT. Solid basic pres, good amount of gain. Way better than a crappy mixer. Better than a good mixer? Not sure, I don't have one of those :confused: I use the LT for drum recording and it works just fine.

Only thing is you already have converters, so do you really need the LT? You can use its channel inserts as analog outs but that's not really what it was designed for--you might be paying for converters you don't need. Also the 1010LT doesn't have ADAT input does it? That's the only digital out from the Presonus.
 
Thanks (Chessrock) for the reply. I understand everything you said; but remember, the main problem is not enough channels of good sounding pre's. I record live jazz, usually two mics on a piano, three on the drums, one on the bass and one on the vocals. They all have to sound killer at the same time. I have been using ART TPS pres into my DW. Since I can't buy 6 or 8 channels of Avalons, I thought a board with very clean, detailed pres with the ability to add some warmth would work as an alternative to a second mortgage. I liked how it sounded, even with crappy pre's. My question really was does it damage the board to run a preamp in the effect loop. If not, then better pre's should sound better still. Thanks again.
 
mshilarious said:
I'm an unashamed fan of cheap tube pres for what they are, but not sure about this. The signal coming out of the mixer is gonna be fairly hot and wouldn't need much gain, so I'm not sure where the warmth is gonna come from. You'd have to attenuate the aux send a lot to get any tube gain.

All I can say is it seemed to work. Part of the signal was clean and detailed, part of it had some tube color. The result was a warmer signal that retained it's detail. Give it a try. Start with the aux send at zero and turn it up as you sing in the mic.
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I install sound system for a living and the differance between Soundcraft and Mackie is night in day. With Mackie you get a very grainy clinical sound. However, Soundcraft will give you a very smooth and rich sound. I own a few Mackie 1604s and also a Soundcraft M12 which I use for recording and the Mackies just don't stack-up.

I hate to say it, but the Brits have use beat on mixer design.
 
mshilarious said:
Only thing is you already have converters, so do you really need the LT? You can use its channel inserts as analog outs but that's not really what it was designed for--you might be paying for converters you don't need. Also the 1010LT doesn't have ADAT input does it? That's the only digital out from the Presonus.
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Actually, my plan is to bypass the 2 pres already on the Delta and run the 8 preamps from my Soundcraft or other device to the Delta. You're right, I do have converters, but not preamps. Also, there is no ADAT lightpipe in the Delta.
 
deepwater said:
However, Soundcraft will give you a very smooth and rich sound. I own a few Mackie 1604s and also a Soundcraft M12 which I use for recording and the Mackies just don't stack-up.

I hate to say it, but the Brits have use beat on mixer design.
Click to expand...

The sad part is, the rich sound all too often gets lost in a too-loud or crappy mix. One cannot tell a Midas from a Behringer under those cirumstances.

Over the July 4th weekend, I got to hear a Midas Verona driving some great speakers. The system sounded like ass. The sound was muffled like screaming through a wet blanket and the talent was always WAY too loud. All that wonderful British sound was wasted through poor setup.
 
brittisch eq-ing is awesome, i second that;...

i heard an incredible difference between my old JB mixing desc and my small behringer, but when i upgraded to an old brittisch Studiomaster the difference was amazing.... now i got a less older Studiomaster model which sounds even better , nice EQ with sweepable mids and lows.....
from the moment i earn some money with a band i'm gonna upgrade to a soundcraft M8 or M12, then i can use my studiomaster as a backup or for live ;...

one step up by the time ;.. i wonder what will come after the M12,
maybe a real GHost ? :D
 
Hi, I have the spirit folio 14:2 mixer and was wondering what people think of the pre's on this? I was looking into maybe going for the octane or sp828 but if there isn't going to be much noticable difference I can save my money and get a better soundcard

any help on this would be greatly appreciated :)
 
leddy said:
What would happen if I used the pre's in the board, then put one really nice tube pre added in for flavor in an aux send (like an effect). Then I could dial in a certain amount of tube per channel depending on the instrument/application etc.? Am I going to harm any equipment? Add noise?
Click to expand...

The biggest problem I can see is that every instrument would have a bit of bleed from the other instruments as the one tube unit would only have one output and therefore only one signal. If you had a tube unit with 8 channels, you could just use it in series.
 
boulty said:
Hi, I have the spirit folio 14:2 mixer and was wondering what people think of the pre's on this? I was looking into maybe going for the octane or sp828 but if there isn't going to be much noticable difference I can save my money and get a better soundcard

any help on this would be greatly appreciated :)
Click to expand...
Tell us what your soundcard is and we'll be able to tell you which is a bigger jump. I think the Folio pres are a couple of steps below the Ghost ones in the M series.
 
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