Wave/824 it is...I checked out the LynxONE, and technically, there seems to be very little difference between the two cards. So the Wave/824 wins me over with the 8 in-8 out specifications. Agreed, the LynxONE seems like a killer card...but I'm thinking that the 824 paired with Vegas Pro or Cbase VST and attention to deatil can pull of the critical results I'm looking for...but further input is welcomed. If anyone can think of something I'm missing that should stop me from buying the 824, let me know.
Sound Card Selection????
- Thread starter Enigma.XI
- Start date
The Guillemot card referred to would be the Maxi Studio ISIS.
A quick question - you've decided (it appears) to go with the Gadget Labs 8/24. Have you also looked at the M-Audio Delta1010? If so, what were the salient points that made you choose the Gadget Labs card over the M-Audio card?
--Dingo
A quick question - you've decided (it appears) to go with the Gadget Labs 8/24. Have you also looked at the M-Audio Delta1010? If so, what were the salient points that made you choose the Gadget Labs card over the M-Audio card?
--Dingo
I think another thing you might wanna look at is whether or not the card has ASIO drivers and whether or not it's ASIO1 or ASIO2. Which OS you plan on using with the card/software (Win98/Win2k).
here's the page I stole from the Steinberg site (it seems as if it's always down) http://www.vvm.com/~thetribe/asio%20audio%20cards.htm
here's the page I stole from the Steinberg site (it seems as if it's always down) http://www.vvm.com/~thetribe/asio%20audio%20cards.htm
Dingo:
The Wave/824 is 1/2 the price of the Delta. With the 824 I get 8 ins and 8 outs, TRUE 24bit, the breakout box on a rack mountable unit...
The Delta has 10 ins and outs, 8/8 analog + 2 digital (coax) ins/outs. But considering that most home studios will only use the analog ins/outs, including mine, the extra $500 doesn't seem worth it. Think of it this way, and I may be off here but...
A. Most of MY instruments are not digital. i.e. Guitars, bass, vocals...
Those that ARE or support digital, Drum modules/machines, Keyboards are not critical to my personal projects. Personally, if done right, I think Keyboards and synths sound just fine running through the line outs instead of even doing the MIDI option...so I don't seem to need the digital. If I were building a business studio instead of a personal studio, I'd go for a card that has unlimited possibilities, but I think I'm safe going with the card that has a little more than I want at half the price, than spending %200 of what I would be and getting features that I don't think I really need. The delta just doesn't seem to be that much more of card for the price they ask.
The other reason? I'm running an AMD setup, and gadgetlabs test their cards on AMD sytems and assure me of %100 compatability...There are plenty of cards that have laughed at me or dodged the bullet by giving me the run-around about compatability.
Why AMD? I actually prefer them. I build PC systems, and I've found that in the right configurations, AMD's are faster (albeit, by nanoseconds) than their Intel counterparts. The only problem I've ever run into is assured compatability. I've gone against better judgment and bought hardware and software that has not been tested with AMD's and have yet to have a problem. But for critical situations, I suggest ONLY going with components that are assured to be compatable...or be the guinea pig, which ain't a fun experience...
Nordark - th 824 has ASIO2 for WIN98...so I'm good there.
The Wave/824 is 1/2 the price of the Delta. With the 824 I get 8 ins and 8 outs, TRUE 24bit, the breakout box on a rack mountable unit...
The Delta has 10 ins and outs, 8/8 analog + 2 digital (coax) ins/outs. But considering that most home studios will only use the analog ins/outs, including mine, the extra $500 doesn't seem worth it. Think of it this way, and I may be off here but...
A. Most of MY instruments are not digital. i.e. Guitars, bass, vocals...
Those that ARE or support digital, Drum modules/machines, Keyboards are not critical to my personal projects. Personally, if done right, I think Keyboards and synths sound just fine running through the line outs instead of even doing the MIDI option...so I don't seem to need the digital. If I were building a business studio instead of a personal studio, I'd go for a card that has unlimited possibilities, but I think I'm safe going with the card that has a little more than I want at half the price, than spending %200 of what I would be and getting features that I don't think I really need. The delta just doesn't seem to be that much more of card for the price they ask.
The other reason? I'm running an AMD setup, and gadgetlabs test their cards on AMD sytems and assure me of %100 compatability...There are plenty of cards that have laughed at me or dodged the bullet by giving me the run-around about compatability.
Why AMD? I actually prefer them. I build PC systems, and I've found that in the right configurations, AMD's are faster (albeit, by nanoseconds) than their Intel counterparts. The only problem I've ever run into is assured compatability. I've gone against better judgment and bought hardware and software that has not been tested with AMD's and have yet to have a problem. But for critical situations, I suggest ONLY going with components that are assured to be compatable...or be the guinea pig, which ain't a fun experience...
Nordark - th 824 has ASIO2 for WIN98...so I'm good there.
I chose the Delta 44 over the Gadget Lab too and I'm very pleased. Like Dingo said, the Delta could be had for a better price since you don't have to pay list price if you look around. The patching and monitoring capabilities are very good, and the breakout box doesn't look like a "gadget", it's solid and heavy, it feels great. And you can choose between -10, +4 and "consumer" levels. Overall it has more features than the 496, and it ain't made by a "gadget" company 
Jesse B. Brown
New member
Masi Studio Isis - 8 Simultanious inputs and 4 independant outputs. It uses up to 20 bit converters on play back and can record up to 48 kHz.
I don't understand why someone would want to use higher than 16 bit at 44.1 kHz? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's CD quality right. If I am making a CD in the DDD format, I shouldn't want to record any higher than 16 and 44.1. I'm a little confused as to why someone would want to work with 20 or 24 bit conversion. Can the human ear even pick up on that?
By the way, the Guillemot card comes with some cool software, too. I found it a helpful addition to my Cakewalk Pro Audio.
I don't understand why someone would want to use higher than 16 bit at 44.1 kHz? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's CD quality right. If I am making a CD in the DDD format, I shouldn't want to record any higher than 16 and 44.1. I'm a little confused as to why someone would want to work with 20 or 24 bit conversion. Can the human ear even pick up on that?
By the way, the Guillemot card comes with some cool software, too. I found it a helpful addition to my Cakewalk Pro Audio.
Yeah, you're right, the list price of the Delta1010 is a lot more than the Wave/824.
For me, I was choosing between the Delta44 and the soon-to-be-released Wave/496. The list price of the Wave/496, in the US, was actually less than the Delta44, but I had to go through the Australian Gadget Labs distributor to get the Wave/496, where-as I could get the Delta44 in from the US, where prices are a lot cheaper even once you take into account exchange rates, shipping and import duty and sales tax. I ended up getting the Delta44 plus a MidiSport 2x2 USB Midi interface for considerably less than I would have had to pay for the Wave/496 here. Amazing, isn't it?
Note, though, that while you're going to have to pay list for the Gadget Labs card (currently $499 for the 824), you'll be able to pick up a Delta1010 for a lot less than list. OK, it lists at $1000, so it's unlikely you'd be able to get it for anywhere near the price of the 824, so I can't say I blame you for your choice (and I probably would have gone for a Gadget Labs card myself if it wasn't for the fact that I could get the Delta44 for a much better price).
Interestingly, I got the Delta44 for $259 (the price was from Bayview Pro Audio, though I didn't buy it from them - I got someone else to match price) - it's list price was $400. Bayview Pro Audio don't list a price for the Delta1010, but if the ratio was similar that would put it at about $650. OK, still probably not worth the extra.
One thing I'm interested in knowing about the Gadget Labs Wave cards - the M-Audio Delta cards have an onboard digital mixer, and come with a very nice control panel monitor mixer and patchbay/router. The router lets me control where various output channels actually go (to the physical outs, into the monitor mixer, to different physical outs or whatever). This was one thing that pushed me in favor of the Delta44 over the Wave/496, and I've found it very useful. I've not seen that the Wave cards provide anything similar - but I'd be very interested to know if they do. Perhaps you've come across that information in your research (I saw no evidence of this on the Gadget Labs web site or in reviews I read).
As I mentioned above, for me it very much came down to a choice between a Gadget Labs Wave card and an M-Audio Delta card, so once you get your Wave/824 (which is very similar in specs to the Wave/496 I was looking at, except for the extra ins and outs of the 824), I for one will be very interested in hearing your thoughts.
-- Dingo
(Babies beware)
For me, I was choosing between the Delta44 and the soon-to-be-released Wave/496. The list price of the Wave/496, in the US, was actually less than the Delta44, but I had to go through the Australian Gadget Labs distributor to get the Wave/496, where-as I could get the Delta44 in from the US, where prices are a lot cheaper even once you take into account exchange rates, shipping and import duty and sales tax. I ended up getting the Delta44 plus a MidiSport 2x2 USB Midi interface for considerably less than I would have had to pay for the Wave/496 here. Amazing, isn't it?
Note, though, that while you're going to have to pay list for the Gadget Labs card (currently $499 for the 824), you'll be able to pick up a Delta1010 for a lot less than list. OK, it lists at $1000, so it's unlikely you'd be able to get it for anywhere near the price of the 824, so I can't say I blame you for your choice (and I probably would have gone for a Gadget Labs card myself if it wasn't for the fact that I could get the Delta44 for a much better price).
Interestingly, I got the Delta44 for $259 (the price was from Bayview Pro Audio, though I didn't buy it from them - I got someone else to match price) - it's list price was $400. Bayview Pro Audio don't list a price for the Delta1010, but if the ratio was similar that would put it at about $650. OK, still probably not worth the extra.
One thing I'm interested in knowing about the Gadget Labs Wave cards - the M-Audio Delta cards have an onboard digital mixer, and come with a very nice control panel monitor mixer and patchbay/router. The router lets me control where various output channels actually go (to the physical outs, into the monitor mixer, to different physical outs or whatever). This was one thing that pushed me in favor of the Delta44 over the Wave/496, and I've found it very useful. I've not seen that the Wave cards provide anything similar - but I'd be very interested to know if they do. Perhaps you've come across that information in your research (I saw no evidence of this on the Gadget Labs web site or in reviews I read).
As I mentioned above, for me it very much came down to a choice between a Gadget Labs Wave card and an M-Audio Delta card, so once you get your Wave/824 (which is very similar in specs to the Wave/496 I was looking at, except for the extra ins and outs of the 824), I for one will be very interested in hearing your thoughts.
-- Dingo
(Babies beware)
camn
Active member
ok, I havent seen any posts about this card yet, so here goes.
I just got a MIXTREME card by Soundscape Digital. Its 16 ins and 16 outs on 2 TDIF ports (24biit). You need A/D converters to use this. Most digital mixers work, and Soundscape and Tascam both make rackmount A/D Tdif boxes. HOWEVER, I use a Tascam mixer and it sounds GREAT. My converters are only 20-bit though.
Im very fond of this card due to the nature of components.. I only have the cash for a TM-D1000 right now, which is 20-bit.. but someday Ill get a 24-bit mixer and can still use the same card. Also, the converters are external, thus avoiding any interference from your computer.
thoughts??
xoxo
cameron
I just got a MIXTREME card by Soundscape Digital. Its 16 ins and 16 outs on 2 TDIF ports (24biit). You need A/D converters to use this. Most digital mixers work, and Soundscape and Tascam both make rackmount A/D Tdif boxes. HOWEVER, I use a Tascam mixer and it sounds GREAT. My converters are only 20-bit though.
Im very fond of this card due to the nature of components.. I only have the cash for a TM-D1000 right now, which is 20-bit.. but someday Ill get a 24-bit mixer and can still use the same card. Also, the converters are external, thus avoiding any interference from your computer.
thoughts??
xoxo
cameron
Enigma, I noticed that the Gadgetlabs stuff has ASIO2 for Win98 too. I'm actually planning on buying the same card but I'm hoping they put a rush on their Win2k drivers cause my new system that the card is going into will be dual cpu.
Jesse Brown, here's an excerpt from the Gadgetlabs sight regarding 24bit vs. 16 or 20bit.Demystifying the bits
The Wave/824's advanced digital design includes 24-bit converters from Crystal Semiconductor with 128X oversampling. This gives you up to 12dB more recording headroom than 16 or 20-bit systems. The data path of the Wave/824 is completely 24-bits.
Note: some competitors seem to try to confuse this area. For example, Echo/Event include 20-bit converters on their Layla interface but also advertise a 24-bit data path. Aardvark advertises 20-bit converters on their 20/20 interface product but it can only record with 16-bit resolution. Remember: the lower number is the limiting factor -- the Wave/824 delivers true 24+24.
The cards at Gadgetlabs seem to be the cheapest(pricewise)that offer true 24bit.
but I'm hoping they put a rush on their Win2k drivers cause my new system that the card is going into will be dual cpu. Jesse Brown, here's an excerpt from the Gadgetlabs sight regarding 24bit vs. 16 or 20bit.Demystifying the bits
The Wave/824's advanced digital design includes 24-bit converters from Crystal Semiconductor with 128X oversampling. This gives you up to 12dB more recording headroom than 16 or 20-bit systems. The data path of the Wave/824 is completely 24-bits.
Note: some competitors seem to try to confuse this area. For example, Echo/Event include 20-bit converters on their Layla interface but also advertise a 24-bit data path. Aardvark advertises 20-bit converters on their 20/20 interface product but it can only record with 16-bit resolution. Remember: the lower number is the limiting factor -- the Wave/824 delivers true 24+24.
The cards at Gadgetlabs seem to be the cheapest(pricewise)that offer true 24bit.
About the control panel and digital mixer...as it has been explained to me...the wave/824's have their own utilities programs and the recording software does the rest...not sure if it is as elaborate a setup as what the Delta has...but I don't think that it would deter me if it wasn't. The Wave/824 still does all that I need it to do and more.
camn
Active member
dingo.. it was about $400 US. That was just the card and the mixer software... To clarify, there's an on board motorola chip that can handle a virtual mixer with EQ on each track plus effects, without dragging on your processor at all. So the card and the prog, 400. and worth it.
xoxo
xoxo
ola
Newbie
For those of you who have decided to go for the Wave/824, have you checked out the Audio DSP24 + ADC/DAC2000 from Hoontech? (http://www.buydigital.co.kr/digital/english/products_showcase.htm) If so, why did you go for the 824? I'm just curious because I have an DSP24... setup and it's working fine as far as I can tell but I don't have anything to compare it with. One guy at a music store (where they actually know at least a bit about digital recording) said that he preferred the DSP24... because the AD/DA converters were located in the breakout box rather than on the PCI card as on the 824 (true?) and would thus have less interference from the magnetic fields of the processor. He would rather sell the DSP24... than the 824 although he had both and the 824 was more expensive. As far as I can gather, the DSP24... has non-compressed 24-bit but I cannot really verify it.
Just wondering if I got a good card or not.
/Ola
Just wondering if I got a good card or not.
/Ola
Hey Damon, is this guy one of your friends?
http://www.geocities.com/lonely451_2000/me.html
Sorry, seeing that you're from Indonesia I couldn't resist.
http://www.geocities.com/lonely451_2000/me.html
Sorry, seeing that you're from Indonesia I couldn't resist.ola, I had checked out the Hoontech stuff too but something just doesn't sit right with me about their cards. Not sure what it is. Do they have ASIO drivers? NT compatible?
Are those 1/8" jacks on the cards? Balanced or unbalanced input/output jacks? Signal to noise ratio? Comments from other users?
Also, I think Mr.Lip is "playa hatin", hahaha
Are those 1/8" jacks on the cards? Balanced or unbalanced input/output jacks? Signal to noise ratio? Comments from other users?
Also, I think Mr.Lip is "playa hatin", hahaha
I don't know about the DSP24...I too have a unny feeling about them. They advertise multiple bit conversion rates *up to* 24 bit. Why? The lowest number being the limiting factor, I'm not so sure about it. It's 24 bit out. And I can't get any info if it's compatable with AMD. I don't know. As far as the converters being on the breakout box as opposed to the card, I can't really see where that would make a difference...I dunno.
ola
Newbie
They're ASIO but the ASIO2 drivers are on their way. They have been "on their way" for some time now but I'll guess they turn up sometime. I'm running N-Track so I haven't bothered about ASIO drivers yet. Maybe if Cubase releases for W2k and Hoontch releases their W2k drivers (that are on their way...), I'll try it but for now I'm fine with N-Track.
Why is the lower bit conversion rate the limiting factor?
The reason for having the A/D in the breakout box rather than on the card is, according to this guy in the store anyway, that the magnetic field from the processor won't interfer the conversion as much as if the conversion was done inside the computer. BS or not, I dunno.
BTW, How do I meassure latency properly?
/Ola
[This message has been edited by ola (edited 04-13-2000).]
Why is the lower bit conversion rate the limiting factor?
The reason for having the A/D in the breakout box rather than on the card is, according to this guy in the store anyway, that the magnetic field from the processor won't interfer the conversion as much as if the conversion was done inside the computer. BS or not, I dunno.
BTW, How do I meassure latency properly?
/Ola
[This message has been edited by ola (edited 04-13-2000).]