Sooooooo tired of fake drum threads.

fat_fleet said:
Well, plenty of bands have two drummers and do that stuff organically.
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One of the reasons I always liked the Allman Brothers Band.
Even though my main interest is (and definitely was back in the day when I first got into the Allman Bros)...what caught my ear and eye back then was their use of two drummers.
Sure, I loved listening to their guitar jams...but the drums were killer.
 
Farview said:
Now that the studio is gone and I moved 2000 across the country into a small-ish house in a neighborhood, real drums are just not practical. I sold the drums and got a good deal on a V-drum kit and use either my drumagog samples or Steven Slate's. It's really the only way I can get it done in the situation I'm in now.
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See, I feel like playing with sticks makes it still "real drums" however digitally enhanced, but I don't know much about the V-kit world.
 
Farview said:
Lynrd skynrd, .38 special, and...

I know there was a few more, but has anyone done it post 1983?
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Butthole Surfers and the Dead off the top of my head... still old bands, but yeah, in general I think it's kind of related to the "old way" of thinking about drums.

Also Melvins and Big Business currently tour as a collaborative unit w/ 2 drummers.
 
miroslav said:
I think it just faded away for some reason....and then with the DAW and all that it can do, the term "programming" came into use.

Speaking of MIDI drum sequencing....man, now that was a real PITA! :D :facepalm:

That shit took a LOT of work to even get a half-decent drum track...but today's app from Slate, Toontrack, AD....blow that out of the water. You're still doing MIDI sequencing, but the quality of the apps both for sequencing duties and the samples they come with, is just miles beyond those Cubase/Atari days!
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I used a Roland MPU401. Long 8 bit ISA card. Ballad had a channel 10 for the drums and used dots for the hits. Nice thing for back then, you could create your own sound from the chips with FM synthesizes (I think that is the right term) and really tweak the hell out of the card sounds. That is what got me into computers and programming. I was trying to write a screen saver type program and had to write assembler to access the Roland card from C++.

Anyway ... back to topic.
 
fat_fleet said:
See, I feel like playing with sticks makes it still "real drums" however digitally enhanced, but I don't know much about the V-kit world.
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It's just electronic drums. It's pretty much the same as sample replacing real.drums...
 
Same could be said about a tripod mic stand and a singer.

You got something against drummers?
:D
 
Hell No.......luv drummers, someone has to hang out with the musicians.....

Q: What the difference between a God and a Soundman ?
A: A God doesn't think he is a Soundman
 
Farview said:
It's just electronic drums. It's pretty much the same as sample replacing real.drums...
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Perhaps in sound it is pretty much the same, and I do love a lot of the sample sounds. But in feel, timing and especially in the composition of the drums you need a real good sampler to call the two similar, imo.
Although drummers seem a bit of a dying race there are new bands coming up that use real drummers with real skill Royal Blood for example, or this Dutch band Kensington. Both really good example of bands in which the drum part takes their songs to a higher level, more then being just the beat because a song needs drums...

I guess a mistake that is often made is that two compose/write good drumming parts wheter on the acoustic kit, electronic kit or sampled takes someone who is good at writing drumparts. That I can loop different trance-ish beats and synth parts in GarageBand to make something that sounds like trance doesn't mean that it is good trance... I've got the idea that off lately people see to think that when they can sequence a drum part they don't need a drummer anymore, while a lot of people overlook that the composing also takes a certain amount of mastery.
 
Dicus said:
That I can loop different trance-ish beats and synth parts in GarageBand to make something that sounds like trance doesn't mean that it is good trance... I've got the idea that off lately people see to think that when they can sequence a drum part they don't need a drummer anymore, while a lot of people overlook that the composing also takes a certain amount of mastery.
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Well that's what makes drum sequencing sound bad....when people just take canned grooves and loop them, or just sequence their own basic, repetitive beats.

Yes...sequencing a drum track is no different than composing a guitar or keyboard part. If it's done half-assed, it will sound half-assed.
 
Dicus said:
Although drummers seem a bit of a dying race
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I'd be interested to know how you arrived at this conclusion - seems like quite a large assumption to be making.

I have never been anywhere with a good local music scene where drummers were not necessary or were in particularly short supply due to being irrelevant for modern music. Certainly most of the best live acts in the UK use a real drummer, even if their music is mostly synth/sample based in it's recorded form - possibly a result of a current fashion in pop production but not an indicator that drummers are becoming a thing of the past.
 
So my band auditioned a new drummer a few weeks back. We gave him the studio version of one of my old solo songs. I'd sequenced the drums by hand not knowing anything about drums.

He showed up and played this weird hi-hat pattern that was all in 3s and didn't make any sense in 4/4 time.
Then I realized he'd learned the drum part I wrote...

That's how I saved Christmas.
 
Dicus said:
Perhaps in sound it is pretty much the same, and I do love a lot of the sample sounds. But in feel, timing and especially in the composition of the drums you need a real good sampler to call the two similar, imo.
Although drummers seem a bit of a dying race there are new bands coming up that use real drummers with real skill Royal Blood for example, or this Dutch band Kensington. Both really good example of bands in which the drum part takes their songs to a higher level, more then being just the beat because a song needs drums...

I guess a mistake that is often made is that two compose/write good drumming parts wheter on the acoustic kit, electronic kit or sampled takes someone who is good at writing drumparts. That I can loop different trance-ish beats and synth parts in GarageBand to make something that sounds like trance doesn't mean that it is good trance... I've got the idea that off lately people see to think that when they can sequence a drum part they don't need a drummer anymore, while a lot of people overlook that the composing also takes a certain amount of mastery.
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Umm, v-drums are electronic drums that you play. You don't program them, you play them.

It's a a drumset of pads that trigger sampled.sounds that are set up like a kit, including hat pedal and and fake kick that you play with a normal.pedal.
 
Jake_JW said:
I'd be interested to know how you arrived at this conclusion - seems like quite a large assumption to be making.
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I don't think that drummers are a dying race...it's that there are many, many, many more home-rec guys setting up DAWs and getting into recording...and I bet the majority of them are not drummers, and the majority of them are not able to bring in drummers, 'cuz their studios are basically a corner of their bedroom...etc...so it just makes sense that they're going to reach for a drum sample application....
....hence the greater number of discussions about those things.

I mean...let's not get into this love/hate stuff about is it "real" or is it "fake".

Guys....it's about making music and recording. :)
A few years back everyone was hating on the guitar guys using sims/pods (I hated on them too)...but now those views have softened and people are saying that they prefer to record real amps when possible...BUT....there are pretty good things being done with sims/pods.

I think drums are the "last stand"....people still wanting to argue the "real/fake" thing, out of hand...rather than focus more on the recording, and how to improve, regardless if they are drums you recorded or samples you sequenced.
Just moaning and saying people need to get some "real drums"...yada, yada, yada...which may be ideal, in an ideal situation...but for some guys, it's just not possible. They're working on their own, and they don't have the room or opportunity to work with real drums...or real amps...etc.

IOW....there doesn't need to be this "smack down" reaction toward anyone using samples or sims...etc.
Use what you can and what you have, and talk about how to get the most out of it. It's OK to say, "I prefer real amps"...but no need to put down anyone that doesn't or can't use them...and same for drums.
 
Resurrect said:
Then.... What was that post just about?
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Well, I would think that, since I posted here, I give at least 2 shits about the topic at hand. If I didn't, I wouldn't have.

Did you disagree with my basic premise? I think there can be value in ignoring the shit that doesn't matter to us.
 
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