So like

Trump will do what he wants and his cabinet will be a revolving door just like his campaign staff. Any work that gets done will be by accident, not by design.
 
Cheesehead1 said:
In America it's asking too much to have an ID to vote.
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In concept, your implication that we should have voter ID laws sounds perfectly reasonable. You could make a great slogan or bumper sticker. It sounds great.

Here's what is actually happening:

"Is there any way to get a breakdown of the 2008 voter turnout, by race (white and black) and type of vote (early and Election Day)?" a staffer for the state's Republican-controlled legislature asked in January 2012.

"Is there no category for 'Hispanic' voter?" a GOP lawmaker asked in March 2013 after requesting a range of data, including how many voters cast ballots outside their precinct.

And in April 2013, a top aide to the Republican House speaker asked for "a breakdown, by race, of those registered voters in your database that do not have a driver's license number."

Months later, the North Carolina legislature passed a law that cut a week of early voting, eliminated out-of-precinct voting and required voters to show specific types of photo ID - restrictions that election board data demonstrated would disproportionately affect African Americans and other minorities.

Critics dubbed it the "monster" law - a sprawling measure that stitched together various voting restrictions being tested in other states. As civil rights groups have sued to block the North Carolina law and others like it around the country, several thousand pages of documents have been produced under court order, revealing the details of how Republicans crafted these measures.

A review of these documents shows that North Carolina GOP leaders launched a meticulous and coordinated effort to deter black voters, who overwhelmingly vote for Democrats. The law, created and passed entirely by white legislators, evoked the state's ugly history of blocking African-Americans from voting - practices that had taken a civil rights movement and extensive federal intervention to stop.

Last month, a three-judge federal appeals panel struck down the North Carolina law, calling it "the most restrictive voting law North Carolina has seen since the era of Jim Crow." Drawing from the emails and other evidence, the 83-page ruling charged that Republican lawmakers had targeted "African-Americans with almost surgical precision."
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How Republicans in North Carolina created a 'monster' voter ID law - Chicago Tribune

And here is the problem North Carolina's white majority claimed to be fixing:

A 2013 report by North Carolina's Board of Elections showed that between 2000 and 2012, out of nearly 40 million votes cast, only two cases of in-person voter fraud were referred to a district attorney.
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And here are how many voters were impacted. Note, they are mostly black people (not a coincidence):

Over several email exchanges, state researchers told GOP legislators that between 318,643 and 612,955 registered voters appeared to lack IDs issued by the North Carolina Division of Motor Vehicles. And the data attached showed the percentage of black people at risk of losing their vote under the new law was much higher than whites.
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So potentially disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters to repair less than 1 case of voter fraud per election.

It makes absolutely no sense...unless you are a Republican trying to prevent black people from voting.
 
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Cheesehead1 said:
If you cant get an ID you are like a two headed albino unicorn.
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It's not that they can't. It's that they didn't. There are hundreds of thousands of them. There is absolutely no justification for this type of law. The only justification is in-person voter fraud, and in-person voter fraud is nearly nonexistent. Again, 2 cases in 13 years in a state with a population of 10 million people.

I'll say it again:

It makes absolutely no sense...unless you are a Republican trying to prevent black people from voting.
 
ibleedburgundy said:
It's not that they can't. It's that they didn't. There are hundreds of thousands of them. There is absolutely no justification for this type of law. The only justification is in-person voter fraud, and in-person voter fraud is nearly nonexistent. Again, 2 cases in 13 years in a state with a population of 10 million people.

I'll say it again:

It makes absolutely no sense...unless you are a Republican trying to prevent black people from voting.
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It makes no sense that you would just wake up on election day and say "geez. I forgot to get an ID". It's a responsibility issue, not a race issue.
 
ibleedburgundy said:
There are hundreds of thousands of them.
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How is this number derived? You can't live in today's society without an ID. If that "hundreds of thousands" spans several decades of time, I might accept, but how many currently do not have ID's and why not?
 
It seems pretty obvious that voter ID is used to supress minorities from voting. The poorest people may have no need for a driving license, or a passport, or they never served in the military, carry a concealed weapon, or need a citizen certificate...even free state IDs require documentation.

the majority of voter fraud, which is tiny anyway, comes through mail ins, voterID doesnt prevent that.
 
The most ridiculous shit I've heard.

Who in this society dosen't have a drivers license or at least a state ID?
 
RFR said:
The most ridiculous shit I've heard.

Who in this society dosen't have a drivers license or at least a state ID?
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People who can barely afford bus fares dont have driving licenses

People who can barely speak english may not have the documents for state ID

I dont have a birth cert, as it stands I couldnt get state ID

Oh how ridiculous that shit is
 
Oh and documentation isnt free, but hell wtf cant afford the $ in this day and age?

Oh yeah those same poor people...thats some ridiculous shit
 
Cheesehead1 said:
It makes no sense that you would just wake up on election day and say "geez. I forgot to get an ID". It's a responsibility issue, not a race issue.
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It is absolutely a race issue. The 2 cases of in-person voter fraud are undeniably not worth any legislative effort. It is not debatable.

The ONLY purpose of these voter ID laws is to play gotcha games with the constitutional rights of black people. It is no different from Jim Crow laws that were thrown out by the courts and made illegal by civil rights legislation in the 60s.
 
RFR said:
The most ridiculous shit I've heard.

Who in this society dosen't have a drivers license or at least a state ID?
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I'd posit that just because you don't know, and because you don't believe, and you think it's ridiculous, doesn't make it untrue. Is the North Carolina thing IBB is talking about, law or not? If yes, then what was its purpose, other than what IBB ascribes?

The US electoral system is corrupted because laws like this can exist, and voter registration, voting format and electoral division are in the hands of elected politicians, rather than an independent body.
 
It has occurred to me that you guys don't know what Jim Crow laws did. They levied poll taxes, literacy tests and quizzes, and documentation requirements. It was never "black people can't vote" it was always "these laws are covertly designed to prevent black people from voting.

In other words, they were otherwise pointless laws that enabled whites to claim it wasn't a race issue, just a responsibility issue.
 
Armistice said:
I'd posit that just because you don't know, and because you don't believe, and you think it's ridiculous, doesn't make it untrue. Is the North Carolina thing IBB is talking about, law or not? If yes, then what was its purpose, other than what IBB ascribes?

The US electoral system is corrupted because laws like this can exist, and voter registration, voting format and electoral division are in the hands of elected politicians, rather than an independent body.
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It was briefly the law until it was thrown out by the courts prior to this election.
 
6 of the 16 states that have approved voter ID laws have a history of discrimination against minorities. All but one of those states laws were put in place after the supreme court overturned a key provision of the voting rights act that required them to seek approval from the justice department for any voting law changes...all states requiring voter ID are Republican...the American system is so entrenched in partisanship its completely fucked..yes lets heal, lets all come together.
 
kcearl said:
People who can barely afford bus fares dont have driving licenses

People who can barely speak english may not have the documents for state ID

I dont have a birth cert, as it stands I couldnt get state ID

Oh how ridiculous that shit is
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How would someone who can hardly afford bus fare not be able to get some form of ID.
If they are that poor they're probably tied in to some kind of welfare. Gotta be some kind of offial documentation for that.

If someone barely spoke English, wouldn't that imply that they recently enteref the country? If they did so legally there would be a paper trail.

How come you don't have a birth certificate? Does that mean you have no DL or ID either?
( that last question, you don't have to answer)
 
RFR said:
How would someone who can hardly afford bus fare not be able to get some form of ID.
If they are that poor they're probably tied in to some kind of welfare. Gotta be some kind of offial documentation for that.

If someone barely spoke English, wouldn't that imply that they recently enteref the country? If they did so legally there would be a paper trail.

How come you don't have a birth certificate? Does that mean you have no DL or ID either?
( that last question, you don't have to answer)
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welfare cheques etc dont count as proof

People can live in communities where English isn't a requirement, its not the official language or forced in entry, they could be here for decades

A birth cert costs $25, a laughably small amount to a working person, the difference between baby formula or not to others

Birth certs are not required to get a driving license in either of the states ive lived..
 
ibleedburgundy said:
Voter ID laws: Why do minorities lack ID to show at the polls?
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Sorry, that article is full of "may explain", "Less-likely", "less-often", and other insubstantials. It doesn't describe any real hard data to support reasons why people don't have or can't get an ID.

Then it ends with this: "academic studies suggest that voter ID laws do probably reduce turnout, both among Democrats and Republicans, but not by more than about 2 percent." So, it kind of negates its own argument. :rolleyes:

There is no reason why anyone over the age of 18 can't get an ID for free.
 
kcearl said:
welfare cheques etc dont count as proof

People can live in communities where English isn't a requirement, its not the official language or forced in entry, they could be here for decades

A birth cert costs $25, a laughably small amount to a working person, the difference between baby formula or not to others

Birth certs are not required to get a driving license in either of the states ive lived..
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You have to speak english to get citizenship in this country. The naturalization interview is in english as is the essay questions they now require.

And you may not have a birth certificate, but you have a passport, you can get state id. You probably already have driver's license, don't you?
 
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