Seems like mics are......................

GT

GT

New member
flavor of the month?

The C1 seemed to go on forever though.

I am not a mic junky, and am willing to give this passer by opinion.

At least in guitars, it's either a Strat, or Les Paul, simple.

Aren't these expensive mics you guys tout, extremely compromised once you add eq, and if you are going to use eq, wouldn't any decent mic suffice!

Maybe once in awhile someone who doesn't care to change mics, as often as socks, needs to bring you mic guys back to earth?

Maybe eq can turn any decent mic into the Holly Grail?

Not trying to piss anyone off.

GT
 
GT said:


At least in guitars, it's either a Strat, or Les Paul, simple.

Aren't these expensive mics you guys tout, extremely compromised once you add eq, and if you are going to use eq, wouldn't any decent mic suffice!


GT
Click to expand...


With guitars you use a Strat when you want a certain type of sound, you use a Les Paul for another distinctly different sound, neither of those can replace a steel string acoustic which in turn cant replace a classical guitar. A studio guitarist who has to play a wide variety of styles and get a wide variety of sounds will have several guitars.

One of the concepts behind mic selection is to avoid using extreme amounts eq and processing by choosing a mic which naturally gives you the sound you want on a particular instrument, because after all eq can only get you so far.
 
there's one vital flaw in your logic

the goal is not to have to use eq at all.

the goal is to get the very best sound possible going to "tape". if you have to use eq to "fix" anything, it means you've got areas you need to address.

sure you've gotta sometimes use a little eq to make things sit better in the mix, but even then, the better it sounds before you tweak, the better it will (or should) sound after you tweak.

using your strat/paul analogy, we're all on a quest for tone and won't stop til we get there. sometimes the path to it varies greatly. but one thing never changes, whether it's a mic, a guitar, drums, trucks or home construction--garbage in, garbage out.


wade
 
Yeah,

I've got two mics in my "arsenal" EV Cobalt c9, and AKG D 190 E.

The EV came free with my recorder, I prefer the EV over the AKG for vocals.

Not knowing any better, wouldn't know what new mic to buy, and if I did buy a new mic, it would have to be one of those desert island mics.

Got interested in the C1 awhile back when it was the favorite flav, but thought it would be better to wait till reality set in, and people started to complain to find out the real truth.

I think mics are just too mysterious for me to get into, and damn well too expensive.

I do like coming here and reading the threads.

Is the C1 still the cat's pajamas, or is it the cats ass?

GT
 
You use a Strat or Les Paul because they are the bee's knees for rock 'n' roll, right?
But what about a jazz, would you use a strat for that?
What about classical guitar, you gonna pull out the Les Paul for that?
I suppose you could, but are they the best tools for the job?

Same thing with mics.
What about miking a grand piano, a harp, a french horn, a string section, or a brass section?
Different jobs require different tools.

You add EQ to make up for sonic discrepencies in the room, or when fooling with mic placement becomes time prohibitive, not to make up for short-commings of the microphone itself.
EQ doesn't comprimise the mike, it simply enhances various parts of the sonic spectrum that the mike has already captured.
The mike has to be able to capture those sonics, in order for EQ to enhance it.
Different mics capture different parts of the audio spectrum differently.

Imagine an artist, like a painter, and you said to him:
"I don't understand why you need all those colors. You have sienna, burnt umber, raw sienna, crimson and a whole host of shades in between. Are those really necessary?
Couldn't you just make due with red and brown?"

:cool:
 
What Michael said.

And I wouldn't buy either a Strat or a Les Paul. Well...maybe I would, but I certaintly would rather have other guitars.:cool:

I do agree that most of us (who are not recording other musicians for a hobby or profession) do not need huge mic lockers. For vocals only, a couple of LDs that compliment each other and one good dynamic (SM7, 441) should cover the basis for most project studios.
 
GT said:
flavor of the month?

The C1 seemed to go on forever though.

I am not a mic junky, and am willing to give this passer by opinion.

At least in guitars, it's either a Strat, or Les Paul, simple.

Aren't these expensive mics you guys tout, extremely compromised once you add eq, and if you are going to use eq, wouldn't any decent mic suffice!

Maybe once in awhile someone who doesn't care to change mics, as often as socks, needs to bring you mic guys back to earth?

Maybe eq can turn any decent mic into the Holly Grail?

Not trying to piss anyone off.

GT
Click to expand...

This flavor of the month thing seems to be only here on this BBS. Jeez, I have been recording all my life and started in the early 70s. Expensive mics have many more uses that the cheapies of today. I have some cheapies and they are good for some things. But, the mics from the 60s are just as useful today and much sought after. You can look at this two ways. You can buy alot of cheapies and have a mic for every source or buy the expensive ones and have a few mics for many sources. Remember that Motown finally got rid of all of their mics and eventually bought Neumanns for EVERYTHING. A good expensive mic is far more versitile than a good cheap mic. Which way is the best way now is totally a matter of personal opinion and finances. All my mics are expensive because I bought them years ago when the good cheap mics did not exist. Today, different story. You can spend under $100 and at least start to record where as the expensive mics you would have to save your pennies for a long time while not recording. So, flavor-of-the-month is nice for talking on a BBS, but it is up to you and your pocket book and your ears to choose what works for you.
 
GT said:
...Maybe eq can turn any decent mic into the Holly Grail?...
Click to expand...
This brings up a question I’ve pondered time and time again. But first, a bit of background...

It seems that the important thing is to find a mic that gives you the “sound” you want without adding external EQ. Well, some mics simply give you the sound ‘straight’ from the capsule, but others utilize some type of on-board EQ to “shape” the sound into something different – either to kill a nasty peak that the capsule naturally produces, or to “enhance” or “flatter” the sound in some way.

My question is how do you know the mic doesn’t already have some internal EQ and how is that different from external EQ?

In light of that, ribbon mics supposedly “take” external EQ very well (I guess that means you can apply it with minimal artifacts taking place). Since I usually just record one instrument at a time, sometimes I think I should just get rid of my mics, buy a couple of AEA R84s and a high-end dual preamp with EQ and be done with it.
 
Re: Re: Seems like mics are......................

Flatpicker said:
This brings up a question I’ve pondered time and time again. But

My question is how do you know the mic doesn’t already have some internal EQ and how is that different from external EQ?
Click to expand...

As stated above you are looking for a mic that allows you to capture sound without using EQ. If the sound is right the internal EQ (if it exist) wouldn't matter because its the sound you want.
 
So no one has answered my question.

Is the C1 still the greatest mic of all time, like it was when it first came out? Or was it just another flash in the pan?

GT
 
I'm assuming it's been a while since you last peaked your head in to the mic forum, otherwise you probably wouldn't need to ask that question. :D


While you were away . . .


A few events caused somewhat of a personality shift in the mic forum. In my opinion and that of some others, it was a much-needed and welcomed facelift. To others, it was a very negative change for the worse, so it really depends on who you talk to.

Anyway, what you will see a lot more around here is the understanding that there is no "one-size-fits-all" mic. That the desrt island mic doesn't exist, and that there is no "greatest of all times," or "flashes in the pans."

Rather, the thinking around here seems to be that every voice is different . . . and every mic responds differently to those voices. And that the "best mic of all time" as you put it, can only be found through careful auditioning and personal evaluation. Rather than discussions of "which is the best" mic for X amount? kind of questions . . . you're more likely to see discussions involving the differences between them.

Another positive trend you might notice is a lot of folks very knowlegeably recommending more than just the standard Large-diaphragm condenser. You'll get a lot of guys recommending dynamic mics and even ribbons, in fact, for the unique things they bring to the table. People have also come to the understanding, for the most part, that there is a correlation between price and performance . . . and that truly great mics are generally going to come with a heftier price tag.

As for your C1 question, it is still considered a very good option for the price, but gone are the inflated comparisons to the likes of expensive German companies, etc. Things have come much more down to earth in terms of expectations overall for cheaper overseas mic manufacturers . . . although we do recognize there are some legitimate values to be had.

Lastly, I think you'll be happy to see that our mic forum is somewhat clear of the hype machine; in other words, you won't find much of us talking about "the next C1," "the next NT1 (remember that one? :D ), etc. etc. etc. Mostly you'll get some realistic interest and curiosity, but a great deal more scepticism and realistic user-reviews.

If you've been waxing nastalgic over the propaganda and hype of the mic forum of yesteryear, you might be disappointed. This is kind of like the new, improved mic forum, so welcome back and enjoy the discussions!
 
chessrock said:
Rather, the thinking around here seems to be that every voice is different . . . and every mic responds differently to those voices. And that the "best mic of all time" as you put it, can only be found through careful auditioning and personal evaluation. Rather than discussions of "which is the best" mic for X amount? kind of questions . . . you're more likely to see discussions involving the differences between them.


Hey chess,

Thanks for the thorough answer, well put.

I got to ask, where the hell do you guys do this "carefull auditioning, and personal evaluation?

Next to the kid playing out of tune death metal, through a giant Marshall stack?

My Sam Ash is so disorganised, you're lucky if you can find your favorite strings.

Asking to audition a mic, would probably send the salesman into the fetal position on the floor next to the Danelectro sitar pedal, where he would remain, until it was time for his cigarette break.

GT
Click to expand...
 
A while back, I hopped on ebay, and wound up scoring like 6 different mics for pretty good deals. Then Mars started blowing out all of their Marshall mics for really cheap.

So all told, I bought like 7 large-diaphragm condensers, played with them all for a month or so, picked the two I liked the best and kept them. And sold the rest on ebay again . . . and I actually wound up making money on the deal.

I wouldn't hesitate going that route again, and I'd highly recommend it. Just don't pay more than you think you'll be able to get for something when you re-sell it. And pay close, close attention to the feedbacks.
 
chessrock said:
...So all told, I bought like 7 large-diaphragm condensers, played with them all for a month or so, picked the two I liked the best and kept them. And sold the rest on ebay again . . . and I actually wound up making money on the deal...
Click to expand...
Hey, I missed that... Which did you sell and which did you keep?
 
Flatpicker said:
Hey, I missed that... Which did you sell and which did you keep?
Click to expand...

Kept: Blue Dragonfly, Rode NT2, CAD M179

Ditched: Behringer B1, 797 Audio / Studio Projects C1, Marshall mxl v67, Marshall mxl 2003 / v93.


Of the ones that got the boot, I rather liked the 797 Audio C1. All in all, though, it was too much like my Rode NT2. I kept the NT2 because I was more familiar with it. The Behringer sucked (insert favorite rodent) penis. I liked both the v67 and v93 at first, but grew to hate them over time and sold them also.
 
I agree with cressrock about the Rode NT2 and 797 Audio/Studio Projects C1... and I sold my C1 for mostly the same reason. I also liked my Marshall MXLV67G's at first... but I don't use them as much anymore... however, at this point in time I think I'll still keep them because they still seem to work for some projects and because they are so cheap I don't need to worry about them getting trashed.
 
Seems like you mic fanatics will never be satisfied, even if the Holy Grail (U87?) came up and bit you on the ass.

GT
 
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