Rhyme Genie & TuneSmith vs MasterWriter

P

ProPlayer

New member
I have been looking at different songwriting software for my lyric writing. There seems to be only two major players at the pro level: MasterWriter and Rhyme Genie.

As the name suggests Rhyme Genie is only a rhyming dictionary but it comes bundled with TuneSmith which lets you maintain song catalogs and keep a lyric journal with rhyme clipboards just like MasterWriter.

What I don't get is the huge difference in price. Rhyme Genie is only $24.95 and TuneSmith is free while MasterWriter is $179. In addition TuneSmith also has a built-in contact manager and a song pitch journal and lets you print your lyric sheets with guitar chord charts. All of those features are missing in MasterWriter. Is there a reason why MastWriter is 7x more expensive than Rhyme Genie. Am I missing something?


Websites:
www dot RhymeGenie dot com
www dot MasterWriter dot com
 
MasterWriter has a hard disk recorder and a built in word processor.

RhymeGenie appears to be a rhyming dictionary.
 
I took a look at Rhyme Genie and threw a couple of words at it that have been giving me and my writing partner difficulty. Its results are nowhere near as complete as some of the on-line dictionaries, notably wikirhymer and Merriam-Webster. However, it perked my curiosity and I found a nice, reasonably complete and free stand-alone rhyming dictionary called McGills, that is included in the equally free Verse Perfect.
 
Manslick said:
MasterWriter has a hard disk recorder and a built in word processor.

RhymeGenie appears to be a rhyming dictionary.
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As mentioned in my initial post Rhyme Genie comes bundles with TuneSmith at no additional costs so the package as a whole is a lot more than a rhyming dictionary. You are right that MasterWriter has a hard risk recorder and a built in word editor but so does TuneSmith.
 
PTravel said:
I took a look at Rhyme Genie and threw a couple of words at it that have been giving me and my writing partner difficulty. Its results are nowhere near as complete as some of the on-line dictionaries, notably wikirhymer and Merriam-Webster. However, it perked my curiosity and I found a nice, reasonably complete and free stand-alone rhyming dictionary called McGills, that is included in the equally free Verse Perfect.
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Which words specifically do you think rhyme better in the McGill's Rhyming Dictionary? I have tested a few words and I find that the intelligent rhyme of Rhyme Genie makes it pretty straight forward to find a variety of rhymes. It certainly seems more accurate than MasterWriter or McGill. Maybe you have selected one of the other 30 different rhyme types which I find less useful as well.
 
ProPlayer said:
Which words specifically do you think rhyme better in the McGill's Rhyming Dictionary? I have tested a few words and I find that the intelligent rhyme of Rhyme Genie makes it pretty straight forward to find a variety of rhymes. It certainly seems more accurate than MasterWriter or McGill. Maybe you have selected one of the other 30 different rhyme types which I find less useful as well.
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I'm only interested in perfect rhymes; I don't use near or imperfect rhymes. At this point, I don't recall which words I was looking up -- I tried a number of different ones. I didn't look at MasterWriter at all. I'm also not sure what you mean by, "intelligent rhyme." Either a word rhymes or it does not. My writing partner and I have been using rhymezone.com, though we'll probably switch to wikirhymer or Merriam Webster. I liked McGill/VersePerfect because it doesn't require an internet connection.

We don't write for the pop market, and I have no idea whether tools like pitch formers and contact lists are of any value to those who do. We also don't need tools that "spark" our creativity. We just need a rhyming dictionary that will provide the largest number of rhyming words, including polysyllabics (which one of the programs calls, "end rhymes," or something like that). We don't need a rhyming dictionary that includes common phrases, place names or proper names.

I'm not at all adverse to spending money on software that provides something I need. However, in this case, I don't see any advantage in the pay products; the free alternatives are either equal to or better.
 
PTravel said:
I'm only interested in perfect rhymes; I don't use near or imperfect rhymes. At this point, I don't recall which words I was looking up -- I tried a number of different ones. I didn't look at MasterWriter at all. I'm also not sure what you mean by, "intelligent rhyme." Either a word rhymes or it does not. My writing partner and I have been using rhymezone.com, though we'll probably switch to wikirhymer or Merriam Webster. I liked McGill/VersePerfect because it doesn't require an internet connection.

We don't write for the pop market, and I have no idea whether tools like pitch formers and contact lists are of any value to those who do. We also don't need tools that "spark" our creativity. We just need a rhyming dictionary that will provide the largest number of rhyming words, including polysyllabics (which one of the programs calls, "end rhymes," or something like that). We don't need a rhyming dictionary that includes common phrases, place names or proper names.

I'm not at all adverse to spending money on software that provides something I need. However, in this case, I don't see any advantage in the pay products; the free alternatives are either equal to or better.
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The intelligent rhyme is sort of a 'fluid' rhyme that can find a number of end rhymes by adjusting the similarity in sound between the search word and the rhymes. It also has a multi-syllabic button so you can find polysyllabic end rhymes. That's another feature that I really like that is missing in MasterWriter, McGill and online dictionaries.

Considering that Rhyme Genie can also search for perfect rhymes and has over 327,000 entries I doubt that any online rhyming dictionary will give you more results which is why I was eager to try out the words that you mentioned.

Of course McGill and online dictionaries also have none of the other song creation and administration features that MasterWriter or Rhyme Genie/TuneSmith offer which is my main motivation for considering either one. McGill is certainly a decent choice if you are looking for simple offline rhyming dictionary without any bells and whistles.
 
ProPlayer said:
The intelligent rhyme is sort of a 'fluid' rhyme that can find a number of end rhymes by adjusting the similarity in sound between the search word and the rhymes.
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Words either rhyme, in which case they're perfect rhymes, or they don't, in which case they are near- or imperfect rhymes. Different writers have different preferences, but I only write perfect rhymes. It's fine if you don't, but it's not a feature I'd find useful for my work.

It also has a multi-syllabic button so you can find polysyllabic end rhymes. That's another feature that I really like that is missing in MasterWriter, McGill and online dictionaries.
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The on-line dictionaries I mentioned, as well as rhymezone.com, all find polysyllabic rhymes. So does McGill.

Considering that Rhyme Genie can also search for perfect rhymes and has over 327,000 entries I doubt that any online rhyming dictionary will give you more results which is why I was eager to try out the words that you mentioned.
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I had uninstalled Rhyme Genie, but I've reinstalled it just for you. :) The Rhyme Genie demo mode only provides 9 offerings, but it does so in alphabetical order. That doesn't make for a fair test, but here goes:

One of my songs has this sequence (I write musical theater):

Character 1:

They're starting to doubt,
They'll figure it out,
Just what you're about. . .

Character 2:

Enough now, get out!

The word is, "out."

Rhyme Genie has 9 1-syllable offerings through "lout." RhymeZone has 16 1-syllable offerings through "lout." McGill has 15. WikiRhymer has 10. Miriam Webster only 7. Rhyme Genie beats Miriam Webster but loses to RhymeZone, McGill and WikiRhymer.

Of course, none of the rhymes provided by any of the programs solve my sequence above. :)

Of course McGill and online dictionaries also have none of the other song creation and administration features that MasterWriter or Rhyme Genie/TuneSmith offer which is my main motivation for considering either one. McGill is certainly a decent choice if you are looking for simple offline rhyming dictionary without any bells and whistles.
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Well, that's where we differ. I have no need of song creation or administration features. I have no idea how valuable these features would be to most people. Because we write for theater, I've found a cheap "index card" program called ThroughLine which is very helpful for organizing scenes and determining structure, but it's strictly a tracking tool -- the equivalent of pinning up index cards, one for each scene, on a wall and then re-arranging them as necessary. I cannot, for the life of me, imagine what "song creation" tools would be, particularly in the context in which my partner and I write (and, of course, that doesn't mean anything for writers in other genres -- perhaps these tools are useful). We know the arc of the song, i.e. where the character or characters are at the beginning and and where they have to end up. We come up with a "hook" that suggests a motif, a theme and, in the best circumstances, the music. I write the music, we push out the lyrics (with the help of a rhyming dictionary) and that's the song. For musical theater, the function of a song is far more complicated than any other genre -- it has to advance the story and the action, it has to fit the character who sings it, it has to match the style of the other songs, etc. There's simply no "creativity tool" that's going to do that.

Rhyming dictionaries have been around long before there was an internet or rhyming software. I have a couple of hard bound dictionaries sitting around gathering dust on a shelf somewhere. I can't, and won't, speak for anyone else, but all my partner and I need are quick and comprehensive lists of perfect rhymes in a variety of syllable lengths, and the free tools I mentioned do that very well.

Now, what I'd REALLY like is a software rhyming dictionary that can do internal rhymes, e.g. you'd put in, "west side," and it would list, "best tried," "rest died," etc. Even better would be multiple internal rhymes. I've never seen anything that can do that in a single step -- we have to do separate searches on each word.

Anyway, good luck with your search and please report back as to which you get and how you like it.
 
PTravel said:
The Rhyme Genie demo mode only provides 9 offerings, but it does so in alphabetical order. That doesn't make for a fair test, but here goes:...
Click to expand...

After unlocking the demo I counted 20 unique 1 syllable perfect rhymes for the word 'out' which beats all other rhyming dictionaries that you have mentioned:o.

The little rhyme shootout aside my favorite feature of Rhyme Genie is without a doubt the intelligent rhyme. After lowering the similarity in sound it lists around 20 more very close near rhymes for 'out' like loud, proud, vowed, bowed etc. While they are technically not perfect rhymes they are certainly close enough for me.

And yes all the other rhyming dictionaries will find polysyllabic rhymes but they do not offer a button to switch from polysyllabic rhymes to final syllable rhymes to find even more rhymes. For me it's all about flexibility. The more options the better.

I haven't played around with TuneSmith yet but am pretty happy with Rhyme Genie so far. Thanks of sharing your thoughts it was a very stimulating exchange of ideas. :thumbs up:
 
ProPlayer said:
After unlocking the demo I counted 20 unique 1 syllable perfect rhymes for the word 'out' which beats all other rhyming dictionaries that you have mentioned:o.
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You misread my post. I counted up to where Rhyme Genie stopped in the demo, which was "lout." There were 9 rhymes listed.

McGill came up with 33 1 syllable perfect rhymes.
RhymeZone has 35.
WikiRhymer has 24.
Merriam Webster loses again with only 16.

Of course, again, none of them solve the sequence I put in my earlier post. :)

The little rhyme shootout aside my favorite feature of Rhyme Genie is without a doubt the intelligent rhyme. After lowering the similarity in sound it lists around 20 more very close near rhymes for 'out' like loud, proud, vowed, bowed etc. While they are technically not perfect rhymes they are certainly close enough for me.
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That's where we differ. I could never use them for what I write, except where I specifically want assonance (and sometimes I do). However, assonance is merely a different kind of rhyming, it's not imperfect rhyming.

And yes all the other rhyming dictionaries will find polysyllabic rhymes but they do not offer a button to switch from polysyllabic rhymes to final syllable rhymes to find even more rhymes. For me it's all about flexibility. The more options the better.
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For me, I'm just looking for rhymes. :)

I haven't played around with TuneSmith yet but am pretty happy with Rhyme Genie so far. Thanks of sharing your thoughts it was a very stimulating exchange of ideas. :thumbs up:
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And thank you. I'd like to see more discussion about lyric writing here. For me, lyrics are much harder to write than music, which is why I almost always write with a partner. I've got one project that for which I'm doing music and lyrics -- I'll probably show up here looking for help. :)
 
PTravel said:
You misread my post. I counted up to where Rhyme Genie stopped in the demo, which was "lout." There were 9 rhymes listed.

McGill came up with 33 1 syllable perfect rhymes.
RhymeZone has 35.
Click to expand...
I did indeed misread your post and it peeked my curiosity as to why rhymezone found 35 perfect rhymes for the word 'out' while Rhyme Genie only showed 20. I am sure you are a little curious as well so I have listed the words from rhymezone that are not included in Rhyme Genie and looked them up on dictionary.com:


'bout ('about')
crout (variation of 'Sourkrout' or 'kraut' )
doutt (no dictionary results)
fout (no dictionary results)
hout (no dictionary results)
knout (a whip)
krout (no dictionary results)
prout (a name: Prout)
raut (no dictionary results)
routt (no dictionary results)
shrout (no dictionary results)
stoute (no dictionary results)
thuot (no dictionary results)
troutt (no dictionary results)


Aside from the word 'knout' I can certainly understand why these words were excluded from Rhyme Genie.
 
ProPlayer said:
I did indeed misread your post and it peeked my curiosity as to why rhymezone found 35 perfect rhymes for the word 'out' while Rhyme Genie only showed 20. I am sure you are a little curious as well so I have listed the words from rhymezone that are not included in Rhyme Genie and looked them up on dictionary.com:


'bout ('about')
crout (variation of 'Sourkrout' or 'kraut' )
doutt (no dictionary results)
fout (no dictionary results)
hout (no dictionary results)
knout (a whip)
krout (no dictionary results)
prout (a name: Prout)
raut (no dictionary results)
routt (no dictionary results)
shrout (no dictionary results)
stoute (no dictionary results)
thuot (no dictionary results)
troutt (no dictionary results)


Aside from the word 'knout' I can certainly understand why these words were excluded from Rhyme Genie.
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As I said, not one of them helps me with the lyric sequence I posted earlier. I suppose I can always invent a word -- it worked for Shakespeare. :)
 
ProPlayer said:
I did indeed misread your post and it peeked my curiosity as to why rhymezone found 35 perfect rhymes for the word 'out' while Rhyme Genie only showed 20. I am sure you are a little curious as well so I have listed the words from rhymezone that are not included in Rhyme Genie and looked them up on dictionary.com:


'bout ('about')
crout (variation of 'Sourkrout' or 'kraut' )
doutt (no dictionary results)
fout (no dictionary results)
hout (no dictionary results)
knout (a whip)
krout (no dictionary results)
prout (a name: Prout)
raut (no dictionary results)
routt (no dictionary results)
shrout (no dictionary results)
stoute (no dictionary results)
thuot (no dictionary results)
troutt (no dictionary results)


Aside from the word 'knout' I can certainly understand why these words were excluded from Rhyme Genie.
Click to expand...

As you're aiming to be a masterful songsmith some day, it would be remiss of me if I didn't point out that your curiousity was "piqued", not "peeked"... :)
 
Armistice said:
As you're aiming to be a masterful songsmith some day, it would be remiss of me if I didn't point out that your curiousity was "piqued", not "peeked"... :)
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Ouch, I have been whipped with the linguistic knout by Armistice:D. Thanks for bringing that to my attention and saving myself from future embarrassment.:p
 
Too much about quantity and not enough about quality.
English rhyming dictionaries are useful tools but surely not the sort of tool you pull out & measure against another in the lavatory?
The value of a Eng. rhyming dictionary is more apparent than real - particularly when in the hands of someone for whom English is a second language.
It's also important to know how a word is pronounced in the various hemispheres to make the rhyme real rather than written.
having spent some time studying the various types of rhymes, from perfect to assonant, I'm firmly in the perfect circle. It also, I have discovered, explains my disdain for rap lyrics.
Shakie invented words, from borrowed roots usually, as have many folk. the difference is that his developed some edgree of currency - well beyond fad & fade.
Nice one Armistice, you'll make it as an Apostrophe Man like me one day.
 
rayc said:
Too much about quantity and not enough about quality.
English rhyming dictionaries are useful tools but surely not the sort of tool you pull out & measure against another in the lavatory?
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I disagree. A rhyming dictionary that provides more rhymes is of greater value than one that provides less.

The value of a Eng. rhyming dictionary is more apparent than real - particularly when in the hands of someone for whom English is a second language.
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English is not my second language. Writing in a second language presents its own challenges (not the least of which is knowing that, in English, "an" is the article that precedes a word beginning with a vowel, i.e. "an Eng. rhyming dictionary." ;)). However, writing in a second language assumes knowing that language. Though I'm not fluent, I can get by in French, meaning that I know how words are pronounced in that language. If I were to attempt French lyrics, I would consult a French rhyming dictionary. I would not recommend that a non-Francophone attempt French lyrics.

It's also important to know how a word is pronounced in the various hemispheres to make the rhyme real rather than written.
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And again, I disagree. First, rhyme is, by definition, aural -- how a word is written is irrelevant and, moreover, rhyming dictionaries concern themselves only the aural presentation of a word. Next, though there are some exceptions, the primary differences between the various dialects of English are of usage and syllabic emphasis -- the rhymes remain reasonably consistent. Moreover, unless the singer is deliberately adopting a specific dialect, when English is sung, it tends to drop regional accents.

having spent some time studying the various types of rhymes, from perfect to assonant, I'm firmly in the perfect circle. It also, I have discovered, explains my disdain for rap lyrics.
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On this, we agree. I abhor near and imperfect rhymes. They draw attention to themselves because they don't work and the effect is jarring and unsatisfying.

Shakie invented words, from borrowed roots usually, as have many folk. the difference is that his developed some edgree of currency - well beyond fad & fade.
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Shakespeare's coined words developed currency specifically because they were apt, i.e. they were immediately understood by his audience. No language is static, and English changes year by year.
 
Armistice said:
As you're aiming to be a masterful songsmith some day, it would be remiss of me if I didn't point out that your curiousity was "piqued", not "peeked"... :)
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Hum, "pique"? I don't know how your vanity would be wounded from your curiosity. But I still have much to learn.
 
Rhyming doesn't change by accent/regional pronunciation? C'mon. Australian Eng vs UK Eng has a wide range of differences. Melbourne to Sydney has significant differences. The differences matter if the rhyme isn't based on the last letter if nothing else.
Route is ROOT in Aust & ROWT in US.
Most folk across the globe will accept US pronunciation as OK because they've suffered the slings & arrows of Cultural Imperialism through cowboy & indian TV but folk also change their pronunciation of words to match the US if they hope to have a non regional radio hit. It's rather like modern letter writing: the Windows Word format has almost completely eradicated the indented paragraph & other features taught up until the late 80's in favour of what Word prefers & has set as default.
English is often sung in the faux American accent because of exposure & expectation. I know many, many people who sing in their own voice, accent & regional version of English.
A Rhyming dictionary that provides more words yet the words may not be used, in a dictionary have a readily discernible meaning is better than one that provides fewer albeit more useful words? Size matters then.
We don't KNOW that Bills creations were readily, immediately understood in the swill pit do we?
You can get by in French & can rely on your knowledge of how words are pronounced in that language. Mt experience of French suggests that it's not THAT straight forward.
"Methinks he doth protest too much" comes to mind having read you essay.
Language is fluid, language decays, is emboldened and raised up by beauty. It is studied, muddied, sullied and glorified. Most generations look back linguistically with some nostalgia once they are on the 2nd half of their nascent journey.
 
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