Response to my Last Newsletter Editorial (23rd June issue)
- Thread starter Chater-La
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fat_fleet
Swollen Member
You could have a point.
But the thing with the label's tanking is that we the fans pay the price. I long ago realized I would never make any money with music, but I still love to play and listen. I think eventually no one will fund or promote new artists, or reissue older releases. It's already moving in that direction. So a childhood like we all probably had, surrounded by exciting shit to listen to, won't be available to kids in the future. And the only music will be either whatever disposable schlock can be mass-produced easily or whatever old stuff is still preserved and available for free out in the cloud somewhere. Really we're pretty much there already.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
maybe ....... with 6000 albums I have more music than I could ever listen to but I see your point. Not sure if I totally agree with it though.
There have been things right here in the clinic that I have on CD's and listen to regularly because they were outstanding.
Real artists will produce their art, much like that painter tossing his paintings in the corner. Finding it may be the hard part but it will be there in quantity IMO.
And I would argue that kids in the future won't care if there's exciting music or not because it's not that important to them.
But I've probably only listened to a quarter of my records. If all music on Earthe ceased tomorrow I'd still have plenty of listening to do and since I'm the only one I care about ...... I'm good.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I think this is probably the single biggest reason why music sales and "listening experiences" are going down hill.
For most kids it really has become a disposable commodity. They also don't give a crap about audio quality, they just listen to whatever is tossed out there...and then toss it out themselves for something else.
Once in awhile you still get the "hit" that drives more general population interest and sales...but even those things are just flavors of the week/month.
I don't see as much deep rooted interest in music as an art form or in specific artists as some sort of creative messengers that the public looks to.
It's all just rapidly changing fashion...lots of ambient noise while 10 other things are going on at the same time.
Plus...(and something I really do hate)...most artist these days that make it big, are expected to be not just great singers or players, but more like circus performers with a full arsenal of tricks they can perform while singing/playing.
The mold for what is a "Rock Star" has certainly changed a lot over the years. Even the underground scenes are more market/public savvy and concerned then they use to be.
OK here is a question- if you guys all believe that people are not going to pay for music, isn't this placing music making, recording songs into files in danger? You can imagine if now everybody can get pasta for free, companies would stop making pasta, and those that still really like pasta would just make their own.
To take the analogy into music, best case scenario either people will just make their own recordings some of really bad quality or worst case scenario stop making music. You laugh at all those people making music in the hopes of fame and fortune. But at least this dream keeps generating lots of new artists, innovation and music in general. If everybody knew it was all doom and gloom I think you will find less people making music, and that is bad. For alot of people it is about recognition and getting their message out. My niece is a singer and told me she will get on American Idol and will win. So at this early age the goal is not just to be a singer but to be famous.
To take the analogy into music, best case scenario either people will just make their own recordings some of really bad quality or worst case scenario stop making music. You laugh at all those people making music in the hopes of fame and fortune. But at least this dream keeps generating lots of new artists, innovation and music in general. If everybody knew it was all doom and gloom I think you will find less people making music, and that is bad. For alot of people it is about recognition and getting their message out. My niece is a singer and told me she will get on American Idol and will win. So at this early age the goal is not just to be a singer but to be famous.
Maybe. And maybe that could be a good thing. Less shit in the world.
I see it totally differently. I see the ease and relative inexpensiveness of home recording allowing more and more talentless people to get their crap "out there" thereby totally watering down the talent pool. The internet has made everyone a potential "superstar" and every terrible garage band and crappy delusional songwriter on the globe is flooding the cosmos with their shit. It's not a good thing at all. I like home recording. But I'm not unaware of the damage that it has done. The same can be said for live music. Gear is cheap and easy to get. There's a guitar center on every corner. Bands literally pay clubs to play now. How insane is that? No matter how bad you suck, you can get a gig anywhere if you buy your own tickets.There's way too much shitty music out there right now. Those shitty bands and "artists" potentially becoming discouraged and quitting is a good thing.
I disagree. Less people making music would be a good thing. Music isn't for everyone. Very few people are actually good at it.
I think that's part of the problem. Not every "message" needs to be heard, and this feeling of musical entitlement that bands have is absurd.
See? There it is. Forget being a good songwriter or anything. She's content with singing covers and being a slave just to be famous. That's the problem with the music world in a nutshell. You could steer her in the right direction.
Armistice
Son of Yoda
^ this x 10,000...
When I grew up and got into music I was absolutely staggered at how much gear cost, but that's what it cost and so you saved up and bought it eventually, and if you didn't REALLY want to be a muso, you didn't, because it was just so expensive, especially where I was. So I see a high barrier to entry, cost-wise, as a positive thing for music as it keeps out the wannabes. Those days are obviously gone.
The ever-decreasing cost of just about everything to do with music technology allows all sorts of people in who really suck at music. And I'd put a large percentage of the people on this site into that bucket.
The stuff I started out doing and the reason I came here in the first place is so far removed from anything even vaguely commercial that I long ago gave up any thoughts of making a cent at it and treat it as a hobby... some people buy jetskis, some travel, I do music. Costs about the same.
To me the single most painful thing about it all, personally, is having conversations with people who've just discovered your music and have become a fan and who say "YOU SHOULD REALLY DO SOMETHING WITH YOUR MUSIC!" in capitals... all full of enthusiasm and good ideas, all of which you've already tried.
Do what, exactly? So I just make it and publish it. Even tonight I uploaded a new original video with new original tune to my YouTube channel which no-one visits, and even my girlfriend was so completely uninterested that she's not responded to my text to go and check it out.
Against that level of apathy, I just give up. I do it because I like doing it and it brings me pleasure, and that's gotta be enough these days.
Maybe tomorrow I'll get my big break...
*steps off soapbox and knocks it over, so no-one else can get on it*...
gecko zzed
Grumpy Mod
This seems to be a reasonable quick look at the recording industry over the years:Music industry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I have a couple of thoughts to had to the mix:
1 It seems to me that preservation of copyright has not made a good transition into the digital era. Its machinery was (and probably still is) geared to the pre-digital era and is based on physical, rather than electronic, representations of the material. There has been a paradigm shift, and this has left the industry floundering. There have been a number of significant paradigm shifts throughout recent history. For example, Swiss watches were regarded as the pinnacle of time-piece engineering, and Swiss watchmakers dominated the market place . . . until the advent of cheap digital watches from Japan. Swiss watchmakers continued as they always had done, and were stunned to find themselves losing their market share. They could not conceive that people would prefer cheap plastic stuff over quality instruments. The Swiss watch industry was left in the doldrums until it adapted to the shift with Swatches. The music industry, likewise, has to reinvent itself.
2 On the production side, I think recording is going through similar trauma that the printing industry went through towards the end of the twentieth century. The rise of PCs and desktop publishing put many printers out of business, and resulted in a massive restructuring of the industry. However, the possession of a PC, QuarkXpress and a laser printer did not guarantee good quality publications, and desks were littered with poorly presented, badly written and generally low quality printed productions. This meant that there was still a place for professional printing houses with high quality equipment and skilled staff. I think this applies to the recording industry as well. There are many very good 'domestic' recording facilities putting out excellent work . . . but there are many more churning out rubbish. There is still room here for the professional, high end outfit.
I have a couple of thoughts to had to the mix:
1 It seems to me that preservation of copyright has not made a good transition into the digital era. Its machinery was (and probably still is) geared to the pre-digital era and is based on physical, rather than electronic, representations of the material. There has been a paradigm shift, and this has left the industry floundering. There have been a number of significant paradigm shifts throughout recent history. For example, Swiss watches were regarded as the pinnacle of time-piece engineering, and Swiss watchmakers dominated the market place . . . until the advent of cheap digital watches from Japan. Swiss watchmakers continued as they always had done, and were stunned to find themselves losing their market share. They could not conceive that people would prefer cheap plastic stuff over quality instruments. The Swiss watch industry was left in the doldrums until it adapted to the shift with Swatches. The music industry, likewise, has to reinvent itself.
2 On the production side, I think recording is going through similar trauma that the printing industry went through towards the end of the twentieth century. The rise of PCs and desktop publishing put many printers out of business, and resulted in a massive restructuring of the industry. However, the possession of a PC, QuarkXpress and a laser printer did not guarantee good quality publications, and desks were littered with poorly presented, badly written and generally low quality printed productions. This meant that there was still a place for professional printing houses with high quality equipment and skilled staff. I think this applies to the recording industry as well. There are many very good 'domestic' recording facilities putting out excellent work . . . but there are many more churning out rubbish. There is still room here for the professional, high end outfit.
^ this x 10,000...
When I grew up and got into music I was absolutely staggered at how much gear cost, but that's what it cost and so you saved up and bought it eventually, and if you didn't REALLY want to be a muso, you didn't, because it was just so expensive, especially where I was. So I see a high barrier to entry, cost-wise, as a positive thing for music as it keeps out the wannabes. Those days are obviously gone.
The ever-decreasing cost of just about everything to do with music technology allows all sorts of people in who really suck at music. And I'd put a large percentage of the people on this site into that bucket.
The stuff I started out doing and the reason I came here in the first place is so far removed from anything even vaguely commercial that I long ago gave up any thoughts of making a cent at it and treat it as a hobby... some people buy jetskis, some travel, I do music. Costs about the same.
To me the single most painful thing about it all, personally, is having conversations with people who've just discovered your music and have become a fan and who say "YOU SHOULD REALLY DO SOMETHING WITH YOUR MUSIC!" in capitals... all full of enthusiasm and good ideas, all of which you've already tried.
Do what, exactly? So I just make it and publish it. Even tonight I uploaded a new original video with new original tune to my YouTube channel which no-one visits, and even my girlfriend was so completely uninterested that she's not responded to my text to go and check it out.
Against that level of apathy, I just give up. I do it because I like doing it and it brings me pleasure, and that's gotta be enough these days.
Maybe tomorrow I'll get my big break...
*steps off soapbox and knocks it over, so no-one else can get on it*...
Lol. Yes. Exactly.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
I actually already addressed that:
Real artists make their art because they're driven to do it.
Some of the greatest music of all time was made back when no one got rich from it. The jazz masters didn't do that stuff because they thought there was a pot of gold at the end of the recording rainbow.
Hell, black artists were basically guarunteed not to get crap outta their work but they did it anyway because they were driven to do so.
Great music will ALWAYS be made ........ period.
Now, if the labels go away then we are talking about how that music gets distributed and so, will it be easy to find or hard?
I don't know.
But I do know that I'm not the only one who has a passion for what I do and I know that I would sit around and play even if they wasn't a dime to be made at it.
As for that American Idol thing ...... that show is the biggest POS ever and I consider it to be a significant factor in the decline of interest in real music as opposed to a total popularity contest based on nothing to do with music.
I've never watched a single episode and I don't allow it in my house.
Wifey and I actually fought about it at first 'cause she wanted to watch it.
I told her, "This show reduces everything I've lived my life for to nothing" and if I get home while it's on, she immediately turns it off even before I get thru the door.
It crap and is very bad for the music industry. And you niece has a better chance of winning the lottery even if she sings well because that has little to do with who wins.
VomitHatSteve
Hat STYLE. Not contents.
I disagree with this being a bad thing. I mean, sure, there are too many musicians for any of them to make money, but it's a better situation for listeners.
Is there way more crap out there? Most certainly. However, all the gatekeepers are gone. Under the old paradigms, nobody heard your music unless you had the money and connections to get it promoted by someone important. Now anyone's music can be heard, so the handful of eccentric geniuses who would otherwise go unheard have an avenue to publish their stuff.
Being an active music fan is just a different experience now. Instead of obsessively listening to a small set of recordings, an active listener slogs through huge piles of crappy music to find the good stuff.
Those are valid points, but I think the end result is lowered standards of writing and production. Bad music inspires more bad music. Bad is a subjective term of course, but when joe rockstar sees weak examples of music on youtube somehow generating thousands of hits, it makes him want to do the same, and the cycle continues. Music now is disposable. Bands are bad and haven't learned from the masters that knew how to use their equipment and/or knew how to play. The internet and social media has killed music in more ways than just thwarting the record companies.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
ditto
However .... players and bands being bad is good for me because I can still work at my age.
Music has always been youth driven and old guys were pushed out of it.
But now the level of musicianship among younger players is pretty poor so I keep on rolling along.
And spare me the indignation ..... there ARE some very good younger players but the bulk of them, including whoever you saw on youtube blazing away last week, can't actually function in a musical setting at all. They're very limited in what they can do and, more importantly, don't know how to relate to other musicians in an ensemble.
If this weren't true, I'd be out of work and homeless. But, if anything, I'm working more and more and one of the specific reasons I get for that from venues is the lack of skill and lack of professionalism of younger players.
Once again, I know that there are many exceptions ........... but they're in the minority right now .............. and I'm glad since I need to work.
I used to work at record labels back in the 90's in NYC. I remember how wasteful everything was, people who sat behind desks and did nothing but trade CD and concert tickets with their friends who worked at other labels. Walking into the Sony building was like walking into a 5 star hotel.
A record company was a one stop shop for recording, producing, image making, marketing, distribution, etc. And later they send you the bill. Some artists just want to be musicians and not worry about all this stuff, others want total control. For the prior, I think this luxury is over. If a label is to survive it needs to cut costs and maybe work together with an artist to split some of the costs, in doing so the artist get more control so I think it is a win win.
It's like if I want to build a house, I can just take a builder and a project maker and show up every two weeks to approve color schemes, tiles and progress. We all know, that it will end up costing me more, I will be ripped off along the way (but maybe I don't care so much), and not everything will be to my liking. Yet, if I run the project myself and hire all the different people, it will take me maybe twice as long to build this house, there will be a huge learning curve, mistakes and lots of frustrations, but at the end I will come out with what I want and much much smarter from the whole process. Still I am not going to do all plumbing, electricity by myself. I will hire those people, but maybe I can help cut costs by dealing with all the permits myself, sourcing raw materials, and doing some painting. You dig?
A record company was a one stop shop for recording, producing, image making, marketing, distribution, etc. And later they send you the bill. Some artists just want to be musicians and not worry about all this stuff, others want total control. For the prior, I think this luxury is over. If a label is to survive it needs to cut costs and maybe work together with an artist to split some of the costs, in doing so the artist get more control so I think it is a win win.
It's like if I want to build a house, I can just take a builder and a project maker and show up every two weeks to approve color schemes, tiles and progress. We all know, that it will end up costing me more, I will be ripped off along the way (but maybe I don't care so much), and not everything will be to my liking. Yet, if I run the project myself and hire all the different people, it will take me maybe twice as long to build this house, there will be a huge learning curve, mistakes and lots of frustrations, but at the end I will come out with what I want and much much smarter from the whole process. Still I am not going to do all plumbing, electricity by myself. I will hire those people, but maybe I can help cut costs by dealing with all the permits myself, sourcing raw materials, and doing some painting. You dig?
FoulPhil
Well-known member
I've seen a lot of old record labels in underground metal close down over the last few years. Even ones that were at the top of the game. It's sad every time I read about one closing. People use to stand up and fight against what is wrong, but now people just take it right in the ass. People accept their downfall with little regard for their future or the future of their children and grandchildren. We're in an age of sleepy time. More and more people wake up, but are out numbered by the sleepy time generation.
I think a huge shift is coming and some serious shit is going to hit the fan. A now or never situation and if we don't all pull our heads out of our own asses the day will come when musicians are replace by machines just like how factories replace skilled workers with robotics. Just like how the farmers have been replaced by corporations and seeds that once offered vital nutrients have been replaced with genetically altered mutations. Inferior crops that produce filler and none of the stuff our bodies need to be in peak condition. Just like the music industry
I think a huge shift is coming and some serious shit is going to hit the fan. A now or never situation and if we don't all pull our heads out of our own asses the day will come when musicians are replace by machines just like how factories replace skilled workers with robotics. Just like how the farmers have been replaced by corporations and seeds that once offered vital nutrients have been replaced with genetically altered mutations. Inferior crops that produce filler and none of the stuff our bodies need to be in peak condition. Just like the music industry
VomitHatSteve
Hat STYLE. Not contents.
I just like that the barrier for entry for those guys that Lt. Bob is talking about is lower.
Yeah, it's tough for them to be heard through the noise, but I'm glad their stuff can exist so easily. Maybe decades from now somebody will stumble across a Greggor the Terror youtube video (or something) and be inspired to start a sweet punk band. (Because, I'm sure the concept of "punk" will grow even MORE relevant in coming years! But I digress)
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
I agree with this.
I have heard some AMAZING stuff right here on HR. Anyone remember SLuiCe? Tjarko? Thoese two come to mind but there were others that had wonderful music that could never have existed without the cheapness of today's recording gear.
Sounded pretty good too .....
