Recording Acoustic guitar dilemma

C

Chrisdb

New member
Alright peeps,

Here's the situation, I know this has been discussed quite often. But I'm having trouble trying to decide on what mics to get for recording my acoustic guitar. I've decided on a SM7b for my vocals, as this will also help eliminate the bleed from the acoustic plus in general it sounds like it will do the job nicely for what I require.

I'm wanting to spend about £200-£350 on a couple of mics for recording my acoustic. But I can't decide on what. From general advice around here it seems obvious that SDC's are the way to go, as they react better to the transients of an acoustic due to their mass. But I've also heard that another effective way of picking up a good amount of detail, would be to use a LDC towards the body of the guitar and then a SDC towards the neck to pick up more of the high end.

I can't decide whether to buy a LDC something like the AT3035 or 4043, then use a SDC like the Rode NT5 for the neck placement. Or just to buy a pair of SDC's and record in stereo.

Also I'm not sure about mic choices from either technique, I keep hearing good/bad things about a lot of the mics I have been looking into. I know I cant just expect an answer like "Do this and buy these exact mics to get that sound your looking for". But any advice/opinions you guys have on mic choices for acoustic guitar and what mic combination would work better would be much appreciated.

Thanks guys
 
There are many thoughts on this sort of thing...Ive been hearing the KSM32 being used on most instuments with great results.
Mics such as the AT4033...AT3035...and the KSM32 are all 3/4" capsules and they seem to give you the best of both worlds.
Id only use 2 mics on the acoustic if it were the "Out front" instrument in the song.
 
Chrisdb said:
I'm wanting to spend about £200-£350 on a couple of mics for recording my acoustic.
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Is that per mic or total?

AT4033 or SM81, although new prices probably exceeds your budget. Used prices are about right if that's per mic and USD, not pounds. Tons of options depending on what sound you're after. And tons of samples to lead the way. Unlike us trombone players who have to buy blind based on guitar samples.
 
Shadow_7 said:
Is that per mic or total?

AT4033 or SM81, although new prices probably exceeds your budget. Used prices are about right if that's per mic and USD, not pounds. Tons of options depending on what sound you're after. And tons of samples to lead the way. Unlike us trombone players who have to buy blind based on guitar samples.
Click to expand...
I have a BeyerDynamic M69 that Chicago used to use on thier horns...and my KSM32 sounds great on them too.
toddbel said:
Technically, I believe the AT3035 is a large diaphragm (over 1" diameter capsule)- I own one. Not that it matters.
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Hold it up to the light...its a 3/4"
 
Yea cheers Gecko that's a very interesting thread, I do like the sound of those NT5's maybe slightly on the bright side, but I'm not too sure. Will consider what he has done there, it is a very clear/detailed recording. Nah that's not per mic but all together and in British pounds.

To be honest though I could get a pair of NT5's on Ebay for about £230, Or I could I just buy one NT5 for £135 and then purchase a mic such as an AT4033 second hand for about £150 or even an AT3035. I'm just not sure what combo to go for? The guitar has to fit in well with the vocals but still sound full/warm and bright, hopefully picking up some nice detail. I have a £700 Seagull Acoustic so it really has some amazing tone, I haven't found anything that compares to it anywhere near that price. It generally sounds quite bright, crisp and warm depending on how its played. It is a surprisingly light guitar made from a very light wood probably what gives it that tone.
 
Would most people recommend only using one mic for an acoustic then? That is if its being recorded alongside with vocals?
 
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Chrisdb said:
Would most people recommend only using one mic for an acoustic then? That is if its being recorded alongside with vocals?
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You probably didn't want to hear the answer, "it depends".

When guitar has a strong role in the song, I use two mikes. If the guitar is playing a minor, more background role, I just use one.
 
Originally Posted by toddbel
Technically, I believe the AT3035 is a large diaphragm (over 1" diameter capsule)- I own one. Not that it matters.

Hold it up to the light...its a 3/4

I did- mine has a 1" capsule (26mm)
 
2 SDC's is the best place to start IMO. Although there are many ways to mic a guit--and they all have their proponents--2 SDC's is still the standard. Once you have become familiar with using 2 SDC's in various configurations (XY, ORTF, SP, one over the shoulder, etc.) on different guits, you will have a solid understanding of basic technique and an experienced ear. Establishing this solid, standard working reference will serve you well when you eventually begin to experiment with other mics, setups, and recording techniques.
 
AT3035 has a 25mm capsule. 1" would be 25.4mm, making the AT3035 a large diaphragm mic by any current working definition.-Richie
 
Seems like two mics would be ideal for me then, as I want the guitar to stand out quite well in the mix. The guitar to my own ears sounds so perfect as it is, it's just trying to get that same sound in my head down on record ya know? Every time I record my guitar, it never sounds the same as when I'm just playing it.

The Rode NT5's sound nice from that sample that I've heard but my style involves a lot of strumming as well as picking. Do you think these mics would be sufficient enough for both styles? I can't really tell if these mics are too bright for my tastes or not, as it could just be the sound of that guitar. Do you think a large diaphragm combined with a SDC would pick up more warmth? Also any decent SDC suggestions for that kind of price of about £200 - £350. Or any samples anyone may have.
 
Chrisdb said:
Seems like two mics would be ideal for me then, as I want the guitar to stand out quite well in the mix. The guitar to my own ears sounds so perfect as it is, it's just trying to get that same sound in my head down on record ya know? Every time I record my guitar, it never sounds the same as when I'm just playing it.

The Rode NT5's sound nice from that sample that I've heard but my style involves a lot of strumming as well as picking. Do you think these mics would be sufficient enough for both styles? I can't really tell if these mics are too bright for my tastes or not, as it could just be the sound of that guitar. Do you think a large diaphragm combined with a SDC would pick up more warmth? Also any decent SDC suggestions for that kind of price of about £200 - £350. Or any samples anyone may have.
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There's a lot of SDCs that'll get you there. I just used the NT5's in that demo because they were handy and on stands--I'd just used them for drum overheads earlier in the week. I've got cheaper ones I could've used (MXL 603s) and you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Also--I don't think the mics are too bright. I don't know if you caught it in that long post, but I "brightened" that signal considerably with a multiband compressor. Here's a comparison:

Stereo acoustic, no processing

Stereo acoustic, "brightened"
 
Chrisdb said:
Do you think a large diaphragm combined with a SDC would pick up more warmth?
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Warmth and brightness are not necessarily a product of diaphragm size. Below is a post from Harvey from his big mic thread (posted at the top of the mic forum as a sticky). When you get to the comparison between LDC's and SDC's, you will see why SDC's are usually preferred for micing acou guit.

Also, the best eq when recording acou guit is mic positioning. If you want more bass response, especially from a cardioid, experiment with its proximity (distance and angle) relative to the sound hole/bout of the guit.

From Harvey:
Let's review what we've learned so far.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, no pop quiz today, but let's review some of the stuff we've gone thru so far. For most applications, the 3 basic mic designs are:
1. Condenser mics
2. Dynamic (moving coil)
3. Ribbon mics (a special class of dynamic mics)

The basic Polar patterns are:

1. Omni- directional (pressure)
2. Uni-directional (cardioid)
3. Bi-directional (figure 8)
3. Hyper-cardioid

True omni-directional mics have a sealed back chamber and only allow sound to hit the front of the diaphragm. The other polar patterns are created by using "pressure gradient" techniques to delay and let some of the sound hit the back of the diaphragm.

Condenser mics can be made in small (1/2" or smaller), medium (5/8" to 7/8"), and large diaphragm (!" and larger) sizes. Small diaphragm condensor mics have these advantages:

1. Flatter, extended frequency response
2. Higher spl levels
3. Better off-axis response
4. Greater accuracy

They have these disadvantages:

1. Lower output levels
2. Higher self-noise

Large diaphragm condensor mics have these advantages:

1. Higher output levels
2. Lower self-noise

They have these disadvantages:

1. Poorer limited frequency response
2. Lower spl levels
3. Uneven off-axis response
4. Less accuracy

However, some of the resonances in a large diaphragm condensor mic can be very pleasing and musical, and can often compliment the voice and some instruments very well.

"Pure" pressure mics do not have proximity effect (bass buildup as you get closer) - all pressure gradient mics DO have proximity effect (dual diaphragm condensor omnis have the least, then cardioids, then hypercardioids, then figure 8, which has the most proximity effect).

You would use small diaphragm condensor omnis where you want the greatest accuracy or in high level situations where self-noise isn't a factor. Large diaphragm condensor mics are better used for quiet sources, or where you want a particular type of complimentary coloration.

We'll get into choice of mic, patterns and placements in the next installment.
 
tdukex said:
Warmth and brightness are not necessarily a product of diaphragm size. Below is a post from Harvey from his big mic thread (posted at the top of the mic forum as a sticky). When you get to the comparison between LDC's and SDC's, you will see why SDC's are usually preferred for micing acou guit.

.[/I]
Click to expand...

I wonder how that reflects real world data...you will notice that LDCs are usually preferred for acoustic guitars in the major studios.
 
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