Recorded Songs Burned To CD: Are They Digital Or Audio On The CD??

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Mike Freze

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I'm confused about something. When you bounce your tracks for a final mixdown, send it to your hard drive for storage as a single, stereo file compatible with burning onto a CD, is that CD recording a digital or audio recording?

I know you can save to wav, mp3, wma, etc. as the format for your songs on the CD. But is the end result still a DIGITAL or AUDIO recording?

If it's digital, then how does it get converted to audio at that point when one plays the CD in a stereo system, a CD player, and so on?

When your record and send your signal through your interface, I understand that the interface has an A/D D/A converter in there to send as digital and play back as audio. But what is on the CD? Is it encoded to play back as an audio recording even though it's stored on the CD as digital inforamtion? If so, then how do you explain saving a file as wav which seems to me to indicate audio?

Mike Freze
 
Everything is digital on the computer as well as on the cd (hence the laser to read the data off the cd). The digital audio files are simply encoded so that a conventional cd player can play once inserted. Just take a look at the properties of any .wav or .mp3 file. There is a bitrate and a sample rate both of which indicate how well the file "mimics" what the original analog sound was. After all, digital is only an illusion of what the actual sound is/was; a bunch of data points acquired in binary. Helpful? I hope so.

Regards,
Clong
 
Your most basic audio file (i.e. .wavs and the files on an audio CD) are mostly just a big list of samples over time. Each sample is a number between 0 and 1 (if I recall correctly) saying where the speaker cone should be with 0 being at rest and 1 being pressed forward fully.
And stereo recordings have two streams of these samples (one for each speaker).

So if your stream contains the numbers 0, 0.5, 1 That means that when the file starts playing, the speaker cone will be fully at rest. 1/44,100 th of a second later it will be halfway extended. Then 1/44,100 th of a second later, it will be fully extended.

So audio files are just a series of instructions telling the speaker where to go to recreate the sound.
 
If it's digital, then how does it get converted to audio at that point when one plays the CD in a stereo system, a CD player, and so on?

At the risk of stating what may seem like the obvious, every CD player has a digital-to-analog converter (or, at least there is one somewhere down-stream. That is how it get's converted back to analog/ audio.

Someone once ragged on you a bit, about how your threads are overly simple. He seemed (to me, at least) to imply that you are somehow being insincere with your post. Now, I am not going to out him (in part because I just don't want to take the time to find that one post, part because doing so would serve no constructive purpose,) but I just want to say that I think your basic questions serve to remind some of us of stuff we have so taken for granted that we have almost forgotten it. Not a bad thing at all.
 
Thanks, stevieb!! I appreciate your comment. Yes, some of my posts are simple or naive, I guess, but definitely sincere. I played music as a guitarist/lead singer/songwriter in bands and as a solo for 20 years (1,500 nights). I have worked with a music publisher in L.A. once (London Records) and had 4 songs published. A lot of experience.

But one can be experienced with performing/songwriting and no nothing about recording, equipment setup, software programs, etc. I've just decided to learn the recording end of things seriously this past 6 months. I've come a long way (a long way to go). I hope to make decent demos myself someday. You have to start somewhere. I have 4 home recording books I have been reading a lot, playing with my software program (Cubase LE), and now absorbing great information from those like you on this forum.

I'm asking questions from people here who have 5-25 years experience with recording, engineering, mixing, mastering, types of equipment, set up options, and so on. A LOT to learn! But it's only been 6 months and I feel I have come a long way. I'll get there eventually.

Sometimes obvious questions (simple stuff) isn't always explained even in the books. Like your helpful comment about D/A converters in CD players to get those songs to play as audio. Great explanation for me! Not one of the books I have mentions that (even though they talk about burning your completed song to CD). So it can leave one wondering HOW that digital information you recorded ends up as audio for you to play back on any system and listen to.

Thanks again. A lot of people here (newbies) are like me but some won't just say what they mean (or ask simply and bluntly) what the simple explanation is. Some will ask something more complicated or involved but they don't know always know what they're asking, either. Some might feel embarrassed or ashamed to ask something too simple. Not me! The more simple stuff I learn, then I can advance to a better understanding of home recording and one day I'll be asking questions that are built on the basics.

Mike Freze
 
The opposite of digital is analog.

Both audio and video can be stored in either a digital or analog format, depending on the format of the recording medium.

If it's on tape or vinyl, it's analog. If its on CD, Blue Ray, Laser Disk, RAM, ROM, bit register, etc., it's digital.
 
The opposite of digital is analog.

Both audio and video can be stored in either a digital or analog format, .
Exactly.

Jesus, Mike. I know I'm going to sound like a prick, but.........

If you're going to start 8 threads a day about every little question that pops into your head, at least remember the answers you got.You had a thread about a week ago asking the exact same question about the difference between "digital and "audio" and it was explained to you by about 10 people that everything you hear is "audio". "Audio" can be "digital" or "ANALOG".

"Digital" or "Audio" isn't even a question.
 
Your most basic audio file (i.e. .wavs and the files on an audio CD) are mostly just a big list of samples over time. Each sample is a number between 0 and 1 (if I recall correctly) saying where the speaker cone should be with 0 being at rest and 1 being pressed forward fully.
And stereo recordings have two streams of these samples (one for each speaker).

So if your stream contains the numbers 0, 0.5, 1 That means that when the file starts playing, the speaker cone will be fully at rest. 1/44,100 th of a second later it will be halfway extended. Then 1/44,100 th of a second later, it will be fully extended.

So audio files are just a series of instructions telling the speaker where to go to recreate the sound.
Almost but not quite. There is nothing between a 1 and a 0. That bit is either on or off. On a CD, each sample has 16 bits, that is 16 ones and/or zeros. It's binary math.

But yes, digital audio is just a set of instructions that get converted into voltages by a DA converter.

A CD player has a built in DA converter.
 
It occurs to me that we are in the midst of two generations of home recorders - those who remember records and those for whom records are a quaint historical legend. So maybe the obvious needs to be stated, as it is no longer obvious to many. It might even have entered the realm of the exotic. Makes me feel kinda old. So this is worth what it costs you - and I make no claim to accuracy. If anyone feels like correcting me, go to it and have fun. I'm easy.

Think of the idea of digital signals and analog signals as offering descriptions of the kind of basket into which audio information is tossed, and the form both the basket and the information takes.

Analog data storage devices correspond with the earliest recording technology: magnetic or vibrational signals imposed on a medium. So the earliest recordings were vibrational signals preserved in a soft medium. Folks would speak or sing into the horn of a megaphone (from the big end). In the small end was a mica disk with a steel needle stuck in the middle - the earliest microphone diaphragm, literally made of a shaving of quartz. The disk vibrated with the voice and the needle vibrated with the disk. A wax cylinder passed underneath the needle and a pattern - actually, a wave form - was carved in the wax. When the cylinder was passed underneath the needle a second time, the pattern caused the needle and the disk, or diaphragm, to move and the movement made sound. The cone of the megaphone amplified the signal and one could hear the recording. Sort of.

The wax medium was fragile and was quickly replaced by progressively stronger media - mostly hard wax and shellac, occasionally hard rubber. The recording needle was replaced with a knife edge and the recording device became known as a lathe, very similar to the lathes that have been used in woodworking and machine shops since the beginning of that technology in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. The cylinders could withstand multiple playing. That was the Edison phonograph design of about 1900; one sits in my studio today.

phonograph001.jpg


The next development of this technology concerned the fragile nature of shellac and hard wax / rubber cylinders. Platters were easier to store and, when supported on a felt topped turntable, were more durable than cylinders. So the technology developed records - platters in which the lathe carved an ever decreasing arc of sound waves. The "grooves" on a vinyl album (and their shellac ancestors) are in fact made of one and only one groove. If you look at these with a magnifying glass you will see waveforms carved into the medium. These waveforms cause the needle to vibrate. In the very old mechanical turntables, the vibrations caused a diaphragm to sound. In the later, electric and electronic turntables the needle is located between two very small magnets and its vibration induces an electric current exactly as a modern microphone does. The current is amplified (processed etc) and is then sent to an analog speaker - which responds to the stronger signal and causes a larger diaphragm to vibrate - the speaker cone. We hear the sound as Edison did, albeit with better fidelity.

Other analog media came and went, but some came and stayed. In the 1930s steel wire was common as a recording medium. Easily magnetized, it could cause an electric current when passed across a magnetic reading head. I remember fooling with a wire recorder in high school. It was an antique but recently so enough that it had no value - we actually recorded guitar music on the thing. It had a terrible sound, a bit like a talking dog. You don't worry so much about what it says as it's remarkable it can talk at all.

Tape became the other medium for analog signals - both reel to reel and cassette tape. Interestingly, VCRs also used the same medium to record digital signals; a VCR tape is a hybrid of digital and audio tape. The image is digital and the audio tracks in the early VCRs was an analog tape signal. ADAT tapes are digital archives, but the medium is the same as with an analog tape.


In a digital signal, sound is transformed to an electric signal exactly in the same way analog sound is transformed, and then a computer takes repeated "snapshots", or samples, of that current. The computer program interprets the signal as an "off" or an "on" event. Large numbers of these numeric documents when assembled together comprise data from which an approximation of the signal may be recreated. The sampling rate at which the approximations are captured and which appears on a standard CD is 44,100 samples per second. The bit depth for a CD is 16 bits, which may be thought of as roughly a measure of how much information (or density of signal) in each sample. Lots and lots of zeroes and ones add up to something that sounds recognizable.

Interestingly, the first digital signals (or similar kinds of signals) were developed in the 1800s with semaphore. Those early flag signals are the forerunners of today's fax machine signals - literally the same in some instances. Fax machine technology may have relied upon the development of the modern telephone line to become affordable, but its software and digital signal structure is a hundred fifty years old.

Note that when describing a digital signal I used the term "approximation." No matter how fancy the computer system is, a digital signal will by definition contain less data than an analog signal. The reason is that a digital signal is composed of samples. In between the samples is dead air space during which no data is being collected. With an analog signal there is no periodic sampling and therefore more data to work with.

While digital sampling now approaches or exceeds the ability of the human ear to distinguish most tones in the audible range, meaning at some point we won't be able to tell if its digital or not, we are not at that point yet. There remains something different about how good analog recordings sound - whether more "pure" or less so is beyond me to suggest, but clearly different. They are not the same and even now there is something nearly indefinable in an analog signal that is missing in a digital signal (along with the distortion arising from wear and design limits of the analog equipment processing the signal). People refer to it as a kind of warmth, and progressively more esoteric, spiritual or erotic terms. Basically there's more stuff in the signal and we can sense even what we can't actually hear. So we get more stuff from the analog signal, for better or worse.
 
One of the major differences between format of the digital song on your computer and the same one when you put it on an audio CD is that the CD is exposed to the outside world, and can be easily damaged. As a result, each digital "word" on a CD contains extra data for error correction and concealment. That extra data is one of the reasons CDs can take as much abuse as they can. The D/A converter circuitry in the CD player can actually detect when there is missing data, and use some of the extra data to guess what was in the gaps. Most times, it works pretty well.
 
Thanks, Treeline and Farview. and LDS. Great info, I appreciate it. I guess I feel like an idiot with RAMI's response. He says it was explained to me before when I asked the difference between digital and analog. That's true. I got a lot of good info. But I don't think anyone (until now) ever explained that a CD player has an D/A converter built in. Sorry, guess I should have known that by instinct (or should have been born with that knowledge). That info DOES make sense but it never came up until this thread.

Think I'll back off of questions for awhile. Seems you ask things and if they seem obvious, you get the "I told you so" response sometimes. Still would like to know who explained the D/A converter thing on CD players before RAMI said that was answered on an earlier thread. Stevieb told me this on this thread but where did anyone tell me that before? Please show me where, RAMI, and I'll apologize. If not, please explain. I'm not an idiot: I'm understanding the difference between digital and analog, But I asked specifically how it works when one listens to a CD. So please pull a quote out of an explanation of an earlier thread where someone explained that in terms of a CD.

Again, I will back off of questions for awhile. I see a lot of newbies here asking questions, people respond with great info, but perhaps one simple thing wasn't explained, you know??

By the way, RAMI: I don't think I ever posted an "exact thread" that asked about what happens on a CD for people to be able to listen to a playback of a digitally recorded performance that can be heard as audio. Show me. I only posted a thread that asked the differences between digtial and audio (no CD question involved).

Mike Freze
 
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I only posted a thread that asked the differences between digtial and audio (no CD question involved).
Exactly. And you were told repeatedly that it makes no sense to ask the "difference" between "digital" and "audio". There is no "difference. "audio" can be "digital", it can also be "analog". Your question should be the difference between "digital" and "analog". They're BOTH "audio".

I'm all for learning, etc....but this is pretty much a duplicate of the same non-question you already asked. The fact that you're now including CD's doesn't change the fact that you're still asking a question that has no answer.
 
Exactly.

Jesus, Mike. I know I'm going to sound like a prick, but.........

If you're going to start 8 threads a day about every little question that pops into your head, at least remember the answers you got.You had a thread about a week ago asking the exact same question about the difference between "digital and "audio" and it was explained to you by about 10 people that everything you hear is "audio". "Audio" can be "digital" or "ANALOG".

"Digital" or "Audio" isn't even a question.

I mentioned this once before. Troll is troll.
 
He says it was explained to me before when I asked the difference between digital and analog.

I'm understanding the difference between digital and analog
Go read your OP and thread title for this thread. You aren't asking about the difference between digital and ANALOG. You're asking the difference between digital and AUDIO. Huge difference. You did the same thing in the other thread, too. You didn't ask about digital and ANALOG. You asked the difference between digital and AUDIO.

You get what I'm saying now???
 
So, VHS's video was digital, eh? I never knew that. So, when they discovered that Dolby SoundSurround was encoded on the VHS tape, was it digital, too?
 
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