Record in 24 bit with 44.1 OR 88.2 OR 192 ?

[bouldersoundguy]

You simply wipe that away as a simple sales argument??
Those customers are top level professionals (Sony, Grammy!!), working with the biggest artists in the world, which work with the best producers in the world in the best studio's in the world. And you really think they would be stupid enough to buy shit like that if it wasn't true?
So actually your agreeing that all those top level professionals don't know what they use or do and are stupid?

They know what they're doing, they're making the right business decision. If a big time artist wants 192kHz then you give it to them or you don't get the job.

Whatever. I got the answer i was looking for.

That's called confirmation bias.

 

[42low]

They know what they're doing, they're making the right business decision. If a big time artist wants 192kHz then you give it to them or you don't get the job.

Yeah right. THEY all are STUPID.
Didn't read the Grammy demands i understand. That's not about some artist's or producers choice.

That's called confirmation bias.

Yeah right again.
Before that i think that 48 is popular by some because their systems can't handle higher and they don't want to confess that to not feel ashamed. I read many that confirm the higer rates and do so, accept a few which propagate 48 as the only true option very anxious.
And that is called confirmation bias forced by gear limits and shame.

Btw, i don't understand what would be your problem that i carry on recording at 24/96. Jealous?

 

[Farview]

I have other experiences.
Experiences which fit within the rates i gave examples for (sony, grammy).

All the radio stations that I have dealt with in the last 10 years have used a compressed format. College and other private stations will still use CDs sometimes. Most of the radio in the US is programmed in New York and sent via satellite to all the stations in the network. There is a computer that the network programmer enters the playlist into. The computer plays the playlist. It's all mp3 or flac.

Then your customers never can send in for a Grammy as they demand higher rates masters as you could read. Bummer for them.

I'm a member of NARAS. There are no such requirements. Most of the music that is given to the voting members is streaming (mp3) or CD.

I'm very curious to this, as Dave Hill's gear can handle sample rates up to 24/192 too. Confusing.
To me at this moment that again looks like a confirmation of the benefits of higher sample rates. Why otherwise would Dave Hill design something "stupid and useless" as high sample rates in it's gear and not simply cut off at 48?

Because at the end of the day, he needs to sell his hardware. If people want these things, he will make them.

Then I will assume that it's the top level professionals with their high rates really are THAT stupid then.... nah, not.
This discussion is really going nowhere with such contradicting arguments. I'm out.

Just because you know how to make a guitar sound good, or know how to make a song that a lot of people will buy, doesn't mean that you know why any of it works. These are just people. They have their superstitions and wrong-headed ideas just like anyone else.


What they do know is when they use this combination of gear and technique, they get a pleasing result and people hand them money. Unless they designed the gear, they may have their thoughts about why a particular thing is awesome, but they don't actually know. It doesn't make them stupid. Just like you may not know what actually happens when you hit the gas pedal in your car, but it doesn't keep you from driving the car. You may think there is a cable hooked to the pedal and the intake manifold. Depending on what car it is, you would be wrong. Does that make you stupid? Does that stop you from driving the car properly?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Btw, i don't understand what would be your problem that i carry on recording at 24/96. Jealous?

Why would I care? Has it gotten you a Grammy?

 

[Gary Harrison]

Are commercial CD's still at 16 bit, and 44.khz ? I record at 24bit 44.1 unless a project has been recorded at a different setting. I have recorded at higher sample ratings but, my ears cannot tell a difference. I didn't really notice that much of a difference in between 16 and 24 bit. I think it's just up to whatever preference you like to record at. What works best for you.

 

[Farview]

By the way, here are the requirements for submission for the grammys, right from the NARAS website.



For the 60th Annual GRAMMY Awards, recordings must be released between Oct.1, 2016, and Sept. 30, 2017.

To be eligible, recordings must be for sale commercially via general distribution or made available as a digital recording, either for sale or via a recognized streaming service. Outlined below is more detailed information on what qualifies as a digital recording and general distribution:

General Distribution: Recordings must be released via general distribution, defined as the nationwide release of a recording via brick and mortar stores, third-party online retailers and/or applicable digital streaming services. Applicable streaming services are paid subscription, full catalogue, on-demand streaming/limited download platforms that have existed as such within the United States for at least one full year as of the submission deadline. All recordings entered must have an assigned International Standard Recording Code (ISRC).

Digital Recordings: Recordings released nationwide via download or streaming service must have quality comparable to at least 16-bit 44.1 kHz. Submissions sent to the Academy for consideration must include both the original file and the product, proper label credits (producer, mixer, songwriter, etc.) in the metadata file, and a verifiable online release date.

Note: To be considered an album, recordings must contain at least five different tracks and a total playing time of 15 minutes or a total playing time of at least 30 minutes with no minimum track requirement. Recordings (albums/singles) must be available to the public as stand-alone purchases or audio-only streams (exceptions: opera and music video/film) by Sept. 30, 2017.


Here is the link to the website, if you wish to see all the requirements for submitting for a grammy. Ready for GRAMMY Season? We can help | GRAMMYPro.com

 

[miroslav]

There's nothing you can say Jay that will put it out.
It just keeps burning on and on...like the Olympic flame.

 

[Massive Master]

White paper mentioned earlier -- It was actually Dan Lavry -- Although I'm sure Dave and Dan discuss their stuff with each other frequently (little sampling pun there). http://www.lavryengineering.com/pdfs/lavry-white-paper-the_optimal_sample_rate_for_quality_audio.pdf

For the record (another pun), I've always admired Dan's DA's for their -- purity (?) but I tend to gravitate towards my Crane Song stuff (namely the HEDD 192 - at whatever sample rate I'm given - which is usually 44.1 or 48k) for the AD, which to this day still floors me.

Both held out for quite some time before ever even designing converters above 96kHz -- Because most of them sounded pretty bad. Now that most of them sound as good as the ones at 44.1 & 48k, it's another story. A story that's driven mostly by marketing and myth.

 

[42low]

[MENTION=28025]Farview[/MENTION].
I've placed the official grammy rates from their official site, so to me it's clear that those are the right ones.
Everyone can check that i'm not telling some fairytail.
Again a contradictional argument.

Editted:
Btw, that info is for internet streams and downloads. Yeah right, 44.1 for consumer download.
That's not the right information for professional recordings. For those, look at my link. 24/88+
That is misleading information and blurs what this discussion is about.

This happens all the time. Non-information brought as 'right' and meanwhile only for 'their holy truth.

Grammy demands high rate masters! 24/88+
And THAT's the CORRECT INFORMATION!
Read my link!

http://www.grammy.com/sites/com/files/pages/deliveryrecommendations.pdf

The Secondary Masters (Backups/”Safeties”) should
have sampling rates and precisions equal to or better than the “Original Master” (88.2,
96, 176.4, 192, 352.8, and 384 kHz are recommended, as are 24 or greater bit depths).

Were talking about production rates.
Not about stream and download rates
Read. Keep it with facts. Don't blur.

For the 60th Annual GRAMMY Awards, recordings must be released between Oct.1, 2016, and Sept. 30, 2017.

Digital Recordings: Recordings released nationwide via download or streaming service must have quality comparable to at least 16-bit 44.1 kHz.

@ fanatic 48 worshippers..

I asked MY question for MY situation and gear set, to make MY choice. Right yes, the answer I was looking for for MY situation and therefore indeed want to hear.
And i have no problem at all how anyone else records. What should it bother me if one records on 8 bit and 11khz?

But why then does it bother some that much that i don't record on 48k? Why do they get agressive about it? Why should they bother what my choise is?
Why should it be that they may give their 48 thoughts and are otherwise thinking ones tried to shut them up?
Why bother and jump in that fanatic?

Do you really have the only 'truth' for everyone? Everyone else (not only me, others support me in my arguments) is always and each time wrong? And not only with this subject.
And that with wrong non-arguments. Who doesn't know what he's talking about now? OMG
Even daring to say those professionals realy are stupid and only trip in sales tricks. ROFLOL.
Man, you all are almost more fanatic than a sect. Can't get some sense in them.

Short. What's your problem??

(And yes i'm a fool too. Thinking that some will get some more sense eventually)

 

[garww]

There can be 24k onboard clocks, etc..48k can be native mode and sound better

 

[Farview]

42low... I'm assuming english is a second language for you. The link you posted isn't how you are supposed to deliver your music for Grammy submission. It is a recommendation on how you should deliver masters, stems and backups for ARCHIVING.

When that was first written, there was a push to go towards higher sample rates for consumer audio. These attempts have failed, since almost everyone listens to mp3s or streaming services.

The sample rate recommendations were an attempt to futureproof the media in the event that higher sample rate consumer delivery systems became the norm in the future.

By the way, grammy.com is the fan site. grammypro.com is the member site. If you go to grammy.com and hit the membership tab, it will take you to grammypro.com

 

[42low]

42low... I'm assuming english is a second language for you. The link you posted isn't how you are supposed to deliver your music for Grammy submission. It is a recommendation on how you should deliver masters, stems and backups for ARCHIVING.

And as a lot state that 48k would be more than enough and higher only would be stupid, their demands/recommendations is stupid (as many of you say).
I've also placed the sony info. And if possible there can easily be found more. But i'm not going to search for it or spend other time for this discussion.
I've now gave many arguments which say different. Record compagnies, professional studio's, producers from famous artists i know to work on higher rates.

So this discussion has no use as lot's of philosopical non-practical arguments seem to be more important. I also find it interesting that some have such weak arguments that clearly show that they are not even slightly more professional than me (and i call myself amateur).
Fine to me. I've tried it one more time again, after several times before, but it really has no use. This really was my last attempt. Congratulations with the conquest (if it is). I surrender myself.




Fun detail. Probably i will read 'my statements' back in the future, just like i already read my 'curtains' advice from those who fought hard to name that stupid, but eventually try to look the smartest with other man's knowledge. Isn't that called parroting? To bad that when i attend on that for my own position that those reactions then are deleted and altered, so that prove of this is sabotaged.

 

[Massive Master]

Maybe if you'd STOP calling them DEMANDS FOR MASTERS -- As they're ONLY recommendations for archiving...

Maybe you missed the whole thing that YOU posted -- Slightly reformatted for visual impact but otherwise unchanged:

(snip) [equal to] or [better than] the “Original Master”

 

[42low]

Maybe if you'd STOP calling them DEMANDS FOR MASTERS -- As they're ONLY recommendations for archiving...

Maybe you missed the whole thing that YOU posted -- Slightly reformatted for visual impact but otherwise unchanged:

Then you quote everything instead of blurring again with half information.

The Secondary Masters (Backups/”Safeties”) should
have sampling rates and precisions equal to or better than the “Original Master” (88.2,
96, 176.4, 192, 352.8, and 384 kHz are recommended, as are 24 or greater bit depths).

And as many in this topic say that higher than 48 is useless, then why are those rates recommended then?? Because that's useless?
Just like their common in professional productions, also useless than.
So all those professionals make stupid choices (by many opinions here) because those professinals know less than a lot here!
Ok. So for instance producers of this famous artist are that foolish that they useless record on no less than 96k?

Why don't you all get it? All those worldwide famous top range record companies, studio's and their producers don't do that because it's useless and stupid. They know what their doing by using those high rates.
This discussion has no use at all. I already surrendered myself. You won. OMBHFG

 

[miroslav]

I always wonder why people who think they are so full of knowledge and experience, show up here on HR to ask a million questions and demand all kinds of answers and demand proof...then when they get the same answers and proof from many different people...
...they reject all of it and go back to thinking they have all the knowledge and experience....???

What's even more confusing is when they do the same thing...over and over in thread after thread.

I dunno...that sure smells like trolling...or...it's a covert way to learn something, without admitting they don't really know.
Then they demand respect from everyone and go delete all the "advices" they posted...thus covering their trail of cluelessness.

That's some seriously neurotic trolling.

 

[42low]

demand all kinds of answers and demand proof...then when they get the same answers and proof from many different people...
...they reject all of it and go back to thinking they have all the knowledge and experience....???

Says the biggest troll.
I'm sure many already know your always on mij back for nothing more then smearing.

I read as much opposite answers as your 'holy one and only'.
So who's rejecting other options??

Trolling? I only try to discus with reasonable arguments. But no one reacts on my attention 'why high rates gear is build and used' (can't?).
So i dare everyone to react: Why is that higly expensive 'useless' high rates gear build and used?? Because it's useless? Come on, discus, with relevant arguments! Without childish smearing this time.

As no clear answer came i put all option on a pile and out of that got a rather resonable answer. Simple as that.

Yeah right. Those high rates of prisme ada are useless and professional sound engeneers buying those are fools.
Go tell them your 'holy truth' and score points there.

But i'm sure many others know i have some point about those actual high rates used in productions and gear.
But probably those don't dare to confirm being afraid to get you on their back. Although it already is confirmed by about half of the reactions.

You will win miroslav. At least, that will be what you think.
Eventually you will get my account deleted (but you don't know i've asked for that more than once already myself, so i'll never loose).

 

[Steenamaroo]

Yeah right. Those high rates of prisme ada are useless and professional sound engeneers buying those are fools.
Go tell them your 'holy truth' and score points there.

They didn't ask, 42 low.
You asked and you got answers.

If you don't like the answers then ignore them, ignore the thread, or offer a counter argument.

 

[42low]

They didn't ask, 42 low.
You asked and you got answers.

If you don't like the answers then ignore them, ignore the thread, or offer a counter argument.

It's sad for the forum that some dominate all interesting discussions without any good argument.
That's bad for a good interesting discussion and therefore bad for many other forum users.

Meanwhile still no one could reject my argument why high rated gear us build and bought.
And the discussion again is killed by the same dominating people.

And i kick back at who kicks me. Can't ignore that. Sorry that's me. I'm no Jesus, i refuse to present my other cheek.

Btw, do you know who protected miro by editing his 'curtains' reaction and deleted my attention on that? Can you see that in the forum logs?
Has to be somebody of the team with permission favouring that troll. Your team.

 

[Steenamaroo]

ugh. Sorry I posted.
Carry on.

 

[Farview]

Meanwhile still no one could reject my argument why high rated gear us build and bought.

Marketing, mis-information and superstition. Simple as that.