Rate amp modellers for home recording

Which Amp modeller would you recommend for rawk!!

  • Amplitube

    Votes: 19 20.4%

  • Guitar Rig

    Votes: 28 30.1%

  • Line6 Toneport

    Votes: 34 36.6%

  • Vox Tonelab

    Votes: 12 12.9%
  • Total voters
    93
nate_dennis said:
I guess I do this a lot . . .. but rather than try to answer this post I will ask a related question in order to gain some enlightenment.

Paul Reed Smith was talking about resistance (I don't recall the tech. term . . .impedance maybe?) and said that a lot of people hate they way wireless systems sound but that if you put a twenty foot cable b/w the guitar and the wireless system (wrapped around your strap or something) that the resistance would increase and it would sound better. The idea being that guitars are designed to use this resistance in the creation of tone. What would increasing cable length do to affect the tone and response of these simulations?
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That's an interesting question, in terms of bringing physics into the argument, but I don't think it would increase the "realism" of the amp simulators if that's what you are getting at. I suppose if PRS said it it must have some logic but I can't honestly say that I notice a difference when using a 50 foot cable as opposed to a 5 footer tone wise between my guitar and amp. and I don't think the ability of the simulators to emulate an amp relies in the resistance as applied to the circuit between the preamp and poweramp as it does to the circuit of the simuators themselves. Or maybe I'm missing your point. Also, I'm pretty sure I just confused myself even more by posting this.:confused::eek::confused::rolleyes:
 
didgijimmy said:
That's an interesting question, in terms of bringing physics into the argument, but I don't think it would increase the "realism" of the amp simulators if that's what you are getting at. I suppose if PRS said it it must have some logic but I can't honestly say that I notice a difference when using a 50 foot cable as opposed to a 5 footer tone wise between my guitar and amp. and I don't think the ability of the simulators to emulate an amp relies in the resistance as applied to the circuit between the preamp and poweramp as it does to the circuit of the simuators themselves. Or maybe I'm missing your point. Also, I'm pretty sure I just confused myself even more by posting this.:confused::eek::confused::rolleyes:
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now that I've thought about it, I think PRS was talking about the input of an actual amp because amps (Some much more than others) react differently to the inductance/resistance/capacitance of the guita cord plugged into the front end. It can effect freq response for one thing.
So that wouldn't seem to apply to plugging a modeler into a board.
 
What you all are saying makes sense. I don't know all the physics behind it so I'm not sure exactly how to explain it. He indicated that by putting a longer cable between the guitar and the wireless system, one *could* improve their tone because of the increased impedance. Since I'm far from an expert I can't speak to it, and honestly, I didn't figure that it WOULD make a difference with an amp modeler, but I thought I'd toss it out there. Thanks for the smart replies and for not laughing at me!
 
nate_dennis said:
What you all are saying makes sense. I don't know all the physics behind it so I'm not sure exactly how to explain it. He indicated that by putting a longer cable between the guitar and the wireless system, one *could* improve their tone because of the increased impedance. Since I'm far from an expert I can't speak to it, and honestly, I didn't figure that it WOULD make a difference with an amp modeler, but I thought I'd toss it out there. Thanks for the smart replies and for not laughing at me!
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Such a minimal increase on impedance (what, 15ft of copper?) will make no difference. Increasing the impedance will change the frequencies in the signal slightly due to propogation characteristics, and cause you to up the gain... but thats happens with waaay more z than just a single instrument cable.
 
nate_dennis said:
What you all are saying makes sense. I don't know all the physics behind it so I'm not sure exactly how to explain it. He indicated that by putting a longer cable between the guitar and the wireless system, one *could* improve their tone because of the increased impedance. Since I'm far from an expert I can't speak to it, and honestly, I didn't figure that it WOULD make a difference with an amp modeler, but I thought I'd toss it out there. Thanks for the smart replies and for not laughing at me!
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Nah, thanks for thinking that up. Waffleness, you seem to have a better understanding of this than I do, increasing the resistance would improve "tone" then if you could increase it by a marginal amount? If I remember correctly a higher resistance results in more power(wattage) but would lower the current. I'm not sure how this translates to guitar physics, but would like to know. By better tone do we mean greater responsiveness, or warmth, or punch?
James
 
didgijimmy said:
If I remember correctly a higher resistance results in more power(wattage) but would lower the current.
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Sending an instrument level signal (i.e. from a guitar) down a cable of higher impedance than normal will not increase the power. What happens is the electricity has to 'push' harder to get down the wire due to the increased resistance, hence the current will be lower. As for power, its not really a useful measurement in this situation because it will remain the same, but the equation is P = (I^2).R :)

didgijimmy said:
I'm not sure how this translates to guitar physics, but would like to know. By better tone do we mean greater responsiveness, or warmth, or punch?
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I can't comment on how it would make the tone better. 'Make it better' can mean anything really, warmer, sharper, mellow, etc. I don't know what you would be trying to achieve by putting in a cable.

If you find out, let me know, I would be interested in the argument
 
I selected Guitar Rig because that's what I have. However I don't really use it as an amp modeler. In fact I hardly ever use the cabinet models. I dont' do guitar recording either. I use Guitar Rig as I use anything else, as a sound design/mangling tool. In fact I do things with it that you wouldn't do if you were going for a traditional guitar amp or any amp tool. I extensively use the sequencer and other modulation tools to modulate things that you wouldn't normally modulate, for example the Sag control available on some of the amp models. I might modulate the tonal controls and other things to just create some weird rhythmic noise, pads, and otherwise.

I really like the compressor in Guitar Rig. It certainly has some 'tude to it, and works well with bass and drums.

To me Guitar Rig is a very creative sound design lab. In fact this is why I am such a proponent of most NI offerings as they lend themselves rather well to auditory adventures.
 
I've been using GTR 3.5 (or whatever the current version is from waves)

Works as stand alone or a plugin and has some nice features and I like the sound so far for what I want to do.

the lite version (GTR Solo) is now apparently free for a year from the waves website so you can check it out with no risk
 
Waffleness said:
Sending an instrument level signal (i.e. from a guitar) down a cable of higher impedance than normal will not increase the power. What happens is the electricity has to 'push' harder to get down the wire due to the increased resistance, hence the current will be lower. As for power, its not really a useful measurement in this situation because it will remain the same, but the equation is P = (I^2).R :)



I can't comment on how it would make the tone better. 'Make it better' can mean anything really, warmer, sharper, mellow, etc. I don't know what you would be trying to achieve by putting in a cable.

If you find out, let me know, I would be interested in the argument
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Ic. I think I goofed on the equation slightly, but that is similiar to what I was getting at. I thought maybe Natedennis would have an idea as to how it would help the tone. I honestly don't have a clue and don't have enough cable to try it with any marginal results, so I guess we are left wandering.
Take er easy,
James
 
I use em all - but just got OVERLOUD'S TH1.1. This baby just puts em all to shame son! I use it in my DAW (Logic, Cubase, Garageband, etc) and use Impulse Responses (it'll load them fine but I normally KILL everyones Cabs and Load my Own Impulses with A Free one for Macs called LA CONVOLVER or in Logic I use Space Designer. OMG this thing is FAT and RICH!

Get the Free Demo - and ignore all that stuff about ILOK's - you don't need one to DEMO or BUY it. I bought it - IT WAS THAT GOOD - still never needed the ILOK as they also have a CHALLENGE/RESPONSE type thing for those who don't own an ILOK... It's a STANDALONE and plug-ins too.
 
i get some pretty great guitar tones in amplitube 2 and 1. but i agree with moon, theres nothing that could beat a good TUBE amp correctly miked.
 
I voted Line6 toneport a while back but never left a comment.

I still own the toneport with gearbox and podfarm + all the add ons and in the past I've owned the first pod rackmount and the v-amp pro. I think bang for buck the V-amp pro was a pretty useable device. I always amp where I can now and use a DI I'll sometimes blend with podfarm if I'm not getting the tone I'm looking for out the amp, but that's pretty rare these days.

For the Bass I have the IK Ampeg svt and a sansamp BDDI which again, blended via DI and mixed with a real amp always gets good results.

I try to go real amp at every turn these days but sometimes for a quick special effect I'll pull up podfarm.

In short, if you want the sound of a real amp, use a real amp. Modlers have their place in the studio but they're not my first choice. YMMV.
 
my list of preferred modelers:

- behringer bass v-amp pro (I reamp through it sometimes, also track many instruments through it outputting both clean and sim versions).

- ampeg svx (best, really the only, bass amp plugin worth owning)

- modeler in an amp: vox ad50 real tube modeling amp. nothing comes close to this or any of it's senior siblings. I don't like the ad30 nearly as much although they do for practicing. the ad50, ad60, ad120 etc are all just incredible amps that respond to the touch. mic one up both close and distant, track both mics separately and voila, beautiful guitar tone that I have yet to hear replicated through even the best of the amplitube plugs.

however... if I must use a guitar amp plugin..... I have several amplitube plugs, fender etc, and I have guitar rig still kicking around for it's fx syncing and other nice features, but for pure modeling and playability while being a musician I'll take the vox ad50 amp any day. it's a real amp but you set it to model what you want when you're playing it, so you play properly for the sound you're getting, no surprises, just pure music.

I do split and di the guitar into the behringer box though and track it there as well normally, at least on paid recordings, and that way I get infinite options later on. the bass v-amp pro is the best di/outboard bass amp modeler I've used. it's better sounding to my ears than the bass pod pro rack unit that it is loosely based upon (the amps are more accurate and more playable and musical to me). and contrary to others who obviously either got bum units or don't know how to control noise... the bass v-amp pro is completely silent in my recording chain and doesn't alter the tone or playing of even the quietest sounds tailing off.
 
I too like real amps

but which one? ah....the question of the day.
I have a Randall RG 80 PH with a monitor cab
that has a huge 12" Gauss in it. sounds really
good. but it is really really loud.

I also have a 68 Deluxe Reverb with a 12 in it I guess.
but it needs to stay in it's room and be preserved for the
archeologists :)

cool amp. oddly, I like the Randall better. it has 2 channels
both with the pre gain and post gain. so, it's not bad for
a good overdrive sound. but the Gauss is such an efficient
great monster of a speaker, it just says clean, no matter
what.

I'm ordering one of those Jensen Mod 12-50-16 speakers.
it's like 40 bucks plus shipping.

to you experienced recording folks, how will this sound?
your opinions are valued. I am gambling the 16 ohm Jensen
will break up a lot more than the Gauss. and the amp should
be able to crank more without necessarily being louder, or
as loud.

the Randall is 100 watts ar 4 ohms, 75 watts at 8 ohms, so it says,
and I figure a 16 ohm speaker will make an interesting sound.

hopefully, it will not be the sound of speaker and amp entrails
flying about the room and so on.

then, I'll mike it with an SM58. can't beat SM58s :)
 
I think he was leaning more toward a direct recording situation...amp modeler versus software simulator...that sort of thing.

Granted, a mic'ed guitar amp is a beautiful thing... :D
 
amp models vs. amps

loveofjazz said:
I think he was leaning more toward a direct recording situation...amp modeler versus software simulator...that sort of thing.

Granted, a mic'ed guitar amp is a beautiful thing... :D
Click to expand...

I know. just tryin ta sneak my own 2 cents in there :laughings:

been using both my own self. my coal burning Digitech GSP 21 Pro is really
pretty cool for recording. nice reverb, delay, etc..really cheeezyoverdrive.
for that I do the ol' stick the amp in the bathroom with an SM58 trick.

seems to me the dangling chads are not yet counted on which amp
modeler is best. if you HAD to use one instead of micing an amp, what
would your own preference be, one who loves jazz?
 
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