ok exactly how does this whole rigid fiber glass panel thing work?????????

T

track pusha

New member
ok, i'm about to start acousticly treating my walk in closet for vocals but i need some help. I've read alot of stuff about rigid fiber glass but i'm kind of confused. i've read that i could build a wood frame and attactch plywood to the back, then stuff it with 703 and wrap fabric around it. I like this method best but i heard that it only absorbs the lows and reflects highs and mids, is this true? the reason i even considerd using rigid fiber glass is because i was told that it will abosorb the whole vocal range. what would i have to do to accomplish this.
 
track pusha said:
ok, i'm about to start acousticly treating my walk in closet for vocals but i need some help. I've read alot of stuff about rigid fiber glass but i'm kind of confused. i've read that i could build a wood frame and attactch plywood to the back, then stuff it with 703 and wrap fabric around it. I like this method best but i heard that it only absorbs the lows and reflects highs and mids, is this true? the reason i even considerd using rigid fiber glass is because i was told that it will abosorb the whole vocal range. what would i have to do to accomplish this.
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Don't expect an answer to this. I've been trying to find out how exactly to build these things for weeks and no one will say. :(
 
famous beagle said:
Don't expect an answer to this. I've been trying to find out how exactly to build these things for weeks and no one will say. :(
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There are many different ways to build 'em, anywhere from your basic wood frame with fabric stretched over the front (and back, if you like), to a simple big fabric pillowcase or even just a fabric facing. There are many different ways to fasten to a wall or corner--with a frame, you can hang it like a picture, or you can drive various types of fasteners through the insulation into the wall.

You can get much more fancy, but that's basically it.

If you look through Rick's posts on this board, a few weeks ago he posted construction details for a real pro assembly, but it used commercial track to hold the fabric, which is gonna be pretty tough for the DIY-er to get. I think most people here stretch the fabric over the wood frame and staple to the back of the frame.

Further, you can add spacers to suspend the panel out from the wall, which maximizes absorption.

Plywood on the back is not necessary, although if you're building them as gobos it might help improve isolation.

Rigid fiberglass is a broadband absorber, even 1" fiberglass will knock down high and mid frequencies. It's when you go to 2" and especially 4" thicknesses that you get bass absorption too.
 
^^^ thank you so much that's just what i needed to know. as for munting it do you think really stong velco could hold it onto a wall?. Oh and would you happen to know if home depot sold 703 fiber glass.

Ps. i've also been hearing that pink r-13 fiberglass is just as good as 703 rigid fiberglass is that true.

Thanks again!!!!!!!!
 
mshilarious said:
There are many different ways to build 'em, anywhere from your basic wood frame with fabric stretched over the front (and back, if you like), to a simple big fabric pillowcase or even just a fabric facing. There are many different ways to fasten to a wall or corner--with a frame, you can hang it like a picture, or you can drive various types of fasteners through the insulation into the wall.

You can get much more fancy, but that's basically it.

If you look through Rick's posts on this board, a few weeks ago he posted construction details for a real pro assembly, but it used commercial track to hold the fabric, which is gonna be pretty tough for the DIY-er to get. I think most people here stretch the fabric over the wood frame and staple to the back of the frame.

Further, you can add spacers to suspend the panel out from the wall, which maximizes absorption.

Plywood on the back is not necessary, although if you're building them as gobos it might help improve isolation.

Rigid fiberglass is a broadband absorber, even 1" fiberglass will knock down high and mid frequencies. It's when you go to 2" and especially 4" thicknesses that you get bass absorption too.
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Ok mshilarious, this is exactly what I've heard before. But here are the things I've still not heard:

1 How do you attach the fiberglass to the frame?

2 I've read in other posts that it's harmful to leave exposed fiberglass. But if there's no fabric or backing to the unit, wouldn't this be the case?

PLEASE help me out. I've bought the wood to build the frames, I know where these should go in my room, but I can not get the rest of this information for the life of me!!

Thanks
 
famous beagle said:
Ok mshilarious, this is exactly what I've heard before. But here are the things I've still not heard:

1 How do you attach the fiberglass to the frame?
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You don't! The fabric keeps it from falling out the front, and a lip on the wood frame keeps it from falling out the back.

2 I've read in other posts that it's harmful to leave exposed fiberglass. But if there's no fabric or backing to the unit, wouldn't this be the case?
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Current research suggests that it's not dangerous (we've had threads about that here), and besides, rigid fiberglass doesn't shed fiber unless you cut or otherwise disturb it. It has much more structural integrity than the pink stuff.

track pusha said:
^^^ thank you so much that's just what i needed to know. as for munting it do you think really stong velco could hold it onto a wall?. Oh and would you happen to know if home depot sold 703 fiber glass.
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The trick is getting the velcro to stick to the fiberglass. If you can figure that out, then yes, the insulation isn't very heavy, so velcro would be strong enough. If you wrapped it in fabric, and secured the velcro to the fabric, that would work.

Home Depot usually doesn't sell rigid fiberglass, although it's worth checking. Usually you have to go to a commercial insulation supplier, and not all of them like to deal with DIY-ers.

Ps. i've also been hearing that pink r-13 fiberglass is just as good as 703 rigid fiberglass is that true.
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By volume, no, the pink stuff is far less dense. But if you use enough of it, it will work.
 
mshilarious said:
You don't! The fabric keeps it from falling out the front, and a lip on the wood frame keeps it from falling out the back.



Current research suggests that it's not dangerous (we've had threads about that here), and besides, rigid fiberglass doesn't shed fiber unless you cut or otherwise disturb it. It has much more structural integrity than the pink stuff.



The trick is getting the velcro to stick to the fiberglass. If you can figure that out, then yes, the insulation isn't very heavy, so velcro would be strong enough. If you wrapped it in fabric, and secured the velcro to the fabric, that would work.

Home Depot usually doesn't sell rigid fiberglass, although it's worth checking. Usually you have to go to a commercial insulation supplier, and not all of them like to deal with DIY-ers.



By volume, no, the pink stuff is far less dense. But if you use enough of it, it will work.
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Ah ha! A lip ... No one ever told me that before. Ok, so that's no big deal. So, a few other questions here:

1 I heard about perforated panel absorbers, so I bought some 2x4 sheets of perforated panel board to place across the front of the frames (which would be covered with fabric). Is this a waste? Or does it produce drasticaly different results (better or worse) than without the board? Same for bass traps in the corner?

2 I've heard that 1 inch of 703 is fine to use in a hi-mid absorber, and that you should use several (3 or 4) sheets of 703 for bass traps. Is this true? Would it be better to use more than one sheet for the other absorbers as well?

Thanks so much for your help! I've been pulling my hair out about this stuff.
 
mshilarious i was thinking of attaching the velco like this, on the back of the frame atactch wood strips and mount the velcro on them. u think this would work. thanks again..i'm excited about building them now.

btw the little black dots are the velco
 

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famous beagle said:
Ah ha! A lip ... No one ever told me that before. Ok, so that's no big deal. So, a few other questions here:

1 I heard about perforated panel absorbers, so I bought some 2x4 sheets of perforated panel board to place across the front of the frames (which would be covered with fabric). Is this a waste? Or does it produce drasticaly different results (better or worse) than without the board? Same for bass traps in the corner?
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Don't know. It would reduce high frequency absorption.

2 I've heard that 1 inch of 703 is fine to use in a hi-mid absorber, and that you should use several (3 or 4) sheets of 703 for bass traps. Is this true?
Click to expand...

Yes, although you can buy it in whatever thickness you need. Sometimes 4" is special order.
 
track pusha said:
mshilarious i was thinking of attaching the velco like this, on the back of the frame atactch wood strips and mount the velcro on them. u think this would work. thanks again..i'm excited about building them now.

btw the little black dots are the velco
Click to expand...

If it doesn't work, add more velcro!
 
mshilarious said:
Don't know. It would reduce high frequency absorption.



Yes, although you can buy it in whatever thickness you need. Sometimes 4" is special order.
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Ok, so ... you think it would be fine to just stick them up there with nothing but the fiberglass inside the frame and fabric to cover it?
 
famous beagle said:
Ok, so ... you think it would be fine to just stick them up there with nothing but the fiberglass inside the frame and fabric to cover it?
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Yes. From what I understand slot absorbers are designed to take out specific problem frequencies, but in a weensy room like we have, all the frequencies are problems!
 
mshilarious said:
Yes. From what I understand slot absorbers are designed to take out specific problem frequencies, but in a weensy room like we have, all the frequencies are problems!
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all right ... then that's what I'm going with. Thanks hilarious .. you rock! (Still looking forward to your solo on the Rumble thread by the way!)
 
mshilarious i found a site where this guy stapled fabric on the frame to keep the fiber glass secure but then he wrapped the whole panel in fabric again. Wouldn't that stop some of the absorbtion, i know it's loose weeve fabric but i thought you wernt suposed to cover it that much. I like the way it looks and i was thinking of doing it that way but i wanted to ask you if it would stop the fiberglass from absorbing. here are the pics. http://will.wackyville.tv/acousticpanels/acoustic.html
 
track pusha said:
mshilarious i found a site where this guy stapled fabric on the frame to keep the fiber glass secure but then he wrapped the whole panel in fabric again. Wouldn't that stop some of the absorbtion, i know it's loose weeve fabric but i thought you wernt suposed to cover it that much.
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It wouldn't make much of a difference. Any fabric, even in two layers, is going to be very transparent to low frequencies.
 
What you want is something that is accoustically transparent. In other words can you blow air through it easily. Mostly folks use one of four things:

1. Burlap...cheap kind of rough looking, can be bought raw or dyed.

2. Felt...cheap and soft looking, have a wide variety of solid colors available.

3. Lose weave cotton fabric. Wide price range and can be found in all sorts of patterns and solids.

4. Guilford of Maine Accoustic Fabric. Quite expensive but with a classy corporate interior kind of look.

For items 1 through 3 to play it safe you should buy some spray-on flameproofing. Guilford of Maine fabrics are already treated.

-------------
...and on the installation issue if you are using a frame then treat it like a picture (duh). If you are not using a frame use impaling clips. You can also DIY some impaling clips by pounding long nails through a 1 inch board, ideally at a slight upward (when installed) slant. Then screw this board into the wall so the nails are pointing out...impale your unframed covered panel on this.
 
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