MOTUs as stand alone devices?

C

Cazzbar

Throbbing Member
I've an HD24 which I'm currently hooking up to an analogue mixer to record the band live in a rented room, but this uses about a ton of Insert cables so in the future it would be nice to utilise the 24 channels of ADAT I/O on the HD24 for nice and neat connections.

I'm about to upgrade my soundcard for my home PC, used for personal recordings and single track band overdubs, and was looking at the MOTU 828mkII. (maybe overkill for my needs but I've a large credit note)

I was interested to read the 828 has ADAT I/O and can function as a stand alone mixer, this got me thinking I could use it as a front end for my HD24, but it hasn't quite got the number of inputs I would require (8 Mic and 8 Instrument) so I would also have to expand the 828 with a MOTU 8Pre as recommended.

All looking good but as I would be recording about 16 tracks simultaneously, this is where my brain starts to hurt.

If I link the 8Pre to the 828 using optical ADAT, then although the 828 can now 'see' the 8Pre it only has 8 tracks of ADAT out.

I guess I could link the 8Pre and the 828 separately to my HD24 using ADAT, but then I need to create a separate monitor mix from the two interfaces. Can the 8Pre function as a standalone monitor mixer like the 828? If so I could pass this mix onto the 828 as another standard input, or use my headphone amp as mini mixer to link them up.

Then I looked at the MOTU 2408 Mk3 which has 24 channels of ADAT I/O, a perfect match for my HD24. I Could link an 8Pre to that and easily have 16 channels of ADAT going to my HD24, but can the 2408 function as a stand alone mixer so I could create a monitor mix? Reading the documentation it only suggests this is possible using a PC.

Any help on this (and any better solutions for my needs!) would be appreciated

(I'm already starting to think that bringing a laptop to the recording session rather than using the HD24 would be a better solution, but would also like a reliable live solution for this as well in the future, and would like to exclude wintel gear for obvious reasons)

Cheers
 
I use a MOTU 2408 mkII between my HD24 and computer. None of the MOTU products will function as a stand alone mixer without a computer. You need the computer along with the MOTU Cuemix software for realtime mixing.
 
Track Rat said:
I use a MOTU 2408 mkII between my HD24 and computer. None of the MOTU products will function as a stand alone mixer without a computer. You need the computer along with the MOTU Cuemix software for realtime mixing.
Click to expand...

woo if that's true then what are they playing at on their website :confused:

MOTU 828mkII Overview said:
Need to hit the road? The 828mkII operates as a stand-alone mixer, with no computer required. Need to tweak your mix? Do it on the spot with the 828mII’s backlit LCD and front-panel controls. Every 828mkII setting can be accessed from the front panel.
Click to expand...

more confused than ever now!
 
Maybe they know something I don't. Let me say that the 2408 won't let you "mix" without a computer. I may have misspoke on their other offerings.
 
Some of the MOTU stuff can be used as a standalone mixer. I am a little confused at what you are trying to do though. It seems like you would be much better off going console to HD24 than trying to stick a bunch of stuff inbetween that is not necessary. In the end, I would imagine that this would take as many and maybe more cables to pull off. Out of curiosity, why were you using insert cables to begin with?
 
My bad. I went to their website and looked at the MOTU 828mkII Overview and it does indeed allow you to mix via a front panel LCD readout. The 2408 mkII doesn't have this feature.
 
xstatic said:
Some of the MOTU stuff can be used as a standalone mixer. I am a little confused at what you are trying to do though. It seems like you would be much better off going console to HD24 than trying to stick a bunch of stuff inbetween that is not necessary. In the end, I would imagine that this would take as many and maybe more cables to pull off. Out of curiosity, why were you using insert cables to begin with?
Click to expand...

Using insert cables between the HD24 and an analogue mixer enables you to record and playback from the HD24 without having to do any re-wiring. Also I do not have any dedicated channel outs on the mixer so it's better than placing a standard cable "half-in" to the inserts to create a direct out.

When you say better off going console to HD24, do you mean digital mixer to HD24 via ADAT? That would be ideal but besides Behringer's cheap digital mixer they're all too pricey for me at the moment.

I'm just trying to utilise the ADAT inputs on my HD24 so I can get rid of the analogue mixer and switch from 16 insert cables to a couple of ADAT leads. The MOTU gear provides microphone and instrument interfaces with ADAT outs, but I'll need to be able to have a headphone mix for the musicians and a separate recording mix for the HD24. So this is why I would need a standalone mixing facilty.
 
Track Rat said:
My bad. I went to their website and looked at the MOTU 828mkII Overview and it does indeed allow you to mix via a front panel LCD readout. The 2408 mkII doesn't have this feature.
Click to expand...

Thanks Track Rat, that's what I figured as well. I was just kinda hoping they forgot to mention the Mk3 had standalone mixing functions (thinking being if the Mk2 had it then so must the Mk3) but clearly not...

So it seems the Mk2 has the standalone mixing functions but not enough ADAT channels, and the Mk3 has enough ADAT channels but cannot do the standalone mixing thing.

d'oh!
 
Different strokes for different folks but I would MUCH prefere making monitor mixes with a real console over a mouse or worse, a tiny LCD readout. It's so much more intuitive to be able to see all the channels laid out in front of you and just go right to an EQ or fader. With a band all standing around waiting for you to get to the right menu can suck the life out of a session fast. :D
 
Agreed :) Just thought if I could use my home soundcard as a digital front end to my HD24, to cut down on the number of connections and speed up the time it takes to set up then I'd give it a go.... but it's just not looking like a practical solution is it

Guess I'll just muddle through with my analogue mixer then, Cheers.
 
Yes the 828mkII can be used stand-alone.
It's no big deal to punch one button and dial up or down any channel.
(exactly why I bought it...)
 
If it were me, maybe you should consider not buying a MOTU and adding a Hammerfall card to your computer and putting the rest of that money towards a mixer that has direct outs. This solves pretty much all of your problems and can be done with 2 eight channel snakes. This way you get the best of both worlds and a better console and preamps for about the same money as buying a pair of MOTU's.
 
Cheers for the thoughts xstatic, although I've just bought a new Yamaha mixer and not having direct outs really isn't a problem.

Infact I prefer to wire up the HD24 in the same way as an effects box using insert cables for each channel as it means I'm sending a post-preamp signal to the recorder which is returned to the mixer, enabling a headphone monitor-mix to be created for the band using the dials as they're recording. Then to satisfy their lust for listening to the recording straight away, hitting play on the recorder also sends the signal to the mixer, enabling a loud speaker main-mix to be created on-the-fly using the faders.

Technically there isn't a problem, just the mixer is huge and the flight box is a beast and the amount of insert cable (which I have to wire-up one channel at a time because I'm still too lazy arsed to number each end) weighs a ton.... and it's always me that has to transport the gear around and set it all up (don't ask!).

So connecting a couple of rack unit instrument interfaces to my recorder via ADAT seems like an attractive idea! Dependent on how easy it is to create and maintain the different mixes required during a session.
 
TimOBrien said:
Yes the 828mkII can be used stand-alone.
It's no big deal to punch one button and dial up or down any channel.
(exactly why I bought it...)
Click to expand...

Thanks Tim, you've swayed me back to my original idea! I'm undecided again now :)
 
I'm not entirely clear on how your setup works (are you using the FOH console to feed the HD24, or a separate mixer?), but wouldn't what you're trying to do be easily accomplished with an A/D unit such as Alesis AI-3 or perhaps the Creamware AD units? Plug 8 channels in and take the ADAT output to the HD24.

I'm not sure why you'd need an interface with preamps like the MOTU stuff? Unless I'm missing something, it sounds like all you need is an A/D becausethe signals you're taking are already amplified?

There are a pair of the Creamware 8 channel A/D and D/A converters on GS right now at $175 each, that's what made me think of this.
 
Thanks for the reply tnjazz, I'll try and explain what I'm trying to do!

tnjazz said:
I'm not entirely clear on how your setup works (are you using the FOH

console to feed the HD24, or a separate mixer?)
Click to expand...

Currently using a mixer connected to the HD24 using 16 insert cables, and ideally would like to get rid of the large mixer/heavy flight box and just use a couple of rack units to feed the recorder via ADAT

tnjazz said:
but wouldn't what you're trying to do be easily accomplished with an A/D unit such as Alesis AI-3 or perhaps the Creamware AD units? Plug 8 channels in and take the ADAT output to the HD24.
Click to expand...

Nice, but need to be able to create a monitor mix for the band whilst sending optimum levels for each channel to the recorder

tnjazz said:
I'm not sure why you'd need an interface with preamps like the MOTU stuff?
Click to expand...

Need upto 8 microphones, 4 for the drum kit and 4 max for vocals

tnjazz said:
it sounds like all you need is an A/D because the signals you're taking are already amplified?
Click to expand...

Think I may have just realised what you're saying :) place an AD converter between the mixer and the HD24? If so that would work, but I'm trying to cut down on gear, especially get rid of the mixer with all the analogue cabling coming out of it

The MOTU 828 mkII took my eye because I'm looking for a soundcard for my home PC and this could double as an ADAT front end for my HD24
 
Well, the MOTU sounds like it will do what you want it to do. It will not be as easy to create your different monitor mixes as with a console, and check to make sure that the MOTU has enough I/O to return your channels from the HD unit AND still have appropriate outputs for the amount of mixes you need. As for the insert cables on the console, hopefully you have your HD24 setup for -10db unbalanced inputs rather than +4db balance inputs because you are most likely using -10db sends if tapping the insert jacks. Especially on a cheaper console. It should be an easy thing to check on the HD though to keep all of your levels proper.
 
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