Mix check - Mean Street

[ido1957]

This was a quick mix we did tonight after getting the drums from Jason. So it's probably going need some adjustments.
There's a few things we might add later so this is kinda our first version.
Let me know what is or isn't right in the mix.

The usual suspects:
Me - Guitars, Vocals
Mike - Bass
Jason - Drums

EDIT - May 9 Mix 2 now attached:

 

[Robus]

Sounds terrific! The lead vocal and harmonies kill it, best of yours so far that I've heard. Guitars also sound very good. As usual they are too close to the center and too loud, especially that Les Paul on the left under the vocals in the chorus. Your bass player kicks ass. I like the bass loud the way it is. The drums sound distant but would bloom if the guitars came down. These are quibbles because it is very good as is.

 

[ido1957]

Sounds terrific! The lead vocal and harmonies kill it, best of yours so far that I've heard. Guitars also sound very good. As usual they are too close to the center and too loud, especially that Les Paul on the left under the vocals in the chorus. Your bass player kicks ass. I like the bass loud the way it is. The drums sound distant but would bloom if the guitars came down. These are quibbles because it is very good as is.

Thanks Robus

This is a quick first mix so I appreciate the pointers.

The guitar panning is as follows, so let me know how you might adjust things (volume/pan):
Rhythm 1 - 40% L
Rhythm 2 - 40% R
Chorus Rhythm 1 - 90% L
Chorus Rhthym 2 - 90% R
Lead - Center

All the vocals are panned pretty hard to fill the spectrum as much as possible as there 6 harmony tracks
Verse Backups - 80% L/R
Chorus Backups - 90 % L/R

I've added some treatment to my room and it seems to have tamed some of the room sound I was getting before on the vocals. The room is probably 20 feet from the mic to the opposite wall with couches and stuff but still came back and bounced off the wall behind/beside me. The amount was minimal but I could still hear it when I soloed the track.

Mike's bass does sound great and just keeps getting better. Of course his playing helps make this song really cook When we listened back we heard the bass was right up there with the kick so we were pretty much set on the level at that point. He's thinking of doing another bass track just to add a couple of runs to work with the drums (he recorded before we got them). But we agreed that this ain't a bad take

The Les Paul got a workout this time as I was mentioning in my other thread. I'm still working on the vibrato on it as the neck radius is flatter than the Strat. I really have to crank on it to get the same response. I'm using the middle pickup on this song and backed off the bridge pickup tone and volume to get some beef into it, and get it to sing a bit. I think a bit more compressor would help draw out the tails a bit so I can play with them a bit more.

 

[RAMI]

Sounds fantastic. Drums can come up a bit, but they might if you turn down the rythms a bit....OR...if you changed how you pan stuff. I would do the opposite of this:

Rhythm 1 - 40% L
Rhythm 2 - 40% R.........................

Verse Backups - 80% L/R
Chorus Backups - 90 % L/R

I would pan the rythm guitars wide, like you have them in the chorus. And I would bring the back vocals in. I like to treat back vocals as if everyone's gathered around one mic, more or less. I wouldn't put them mono, but I'd keep them more centered. That's just a personal thing that I believe in. But by widening the guitars and maybe turning them down a touch, the drums will come up without having to actually turn them up.

Very minor stuff. This sounds really good.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Why can't I click the attachment on mobile....weird.

 

[RAMI]

Why can't I click the attachment on mobile....weird.

That's weird, especially considering it's not an outside host. It's Homerecording.com's own file hosting.

 

[ido1957]

Sounds fantastic. Drums can come up a bit, but they might if you turn down the rythms a bit....OR...if you changed how you pan stuff. I would do the opposite of this:
I would pan the rythm guitars wide, like you have them in the chorus. And I would bring the back vocals in. I like to treat back vocals as if everyone's gathered around one mic, more or less. I wouldn't put them mono, but I'd keep them more centered. That's just a personal thing that I believe in. But by widening the guitars and maybe turning them down a touch, the drums will come up without having to actually turn them up.

Very minor stuff. This sounds really good.

Thanks Rami! I usually do pan the backups much more towards center but tried a little different technique on this one. On the plus side it gives the lead vocal a lot more center attention but on the other side you're right it doesn't give you that "figure 8" sound to it. I'm on the fence I guess - I'll play around and see what comes of it.

I sent Jason a copy last night and on buds he said it sounded good. He's going to try it on monitors and let me know how it sounds there. I'll see what he thinks of the drum level too as I want him to be happy with it being the drummer and all

Big shout out to Jason on an excellent groove on the drums by the way - I've gotten some very positive feedback about how much it improved the whole song from those who had heard the abysmal midi track I had built for tracking lol...

 

[ido1957]

Why can't I click the attachment on mobile....weird.

My antique flip phone won't download anything either but it does wake me up well at 3am when I am on call. Damn thing

 

[RFR]

For getting the attachment you have to put HR on full site. At least that's how it works on a samsung galaxy.

 

[Robus]

I agree with what Rami wrote. You know I'm a fan of the big, open center. If you go wider on the guitars, you'll have a big space where the lead vocal can go, with the harmonies sitting closer in around it.

That lead Les Paul isn't centered when it's playing under the chorus vocal, and when doing that call-and-response in the verse? I thought it was too close but it sounded slightly left. I think especially with that fat, warm tone you're getting out of it, it doesn't want to be underfoot of the vocal. Good tone, BTW. I don't hear anything that needs fixing about the bass line.

 

[andrushkiwt]

For getting the attachment you have to put HR on full site. At least that's how it works on a samsung galaxy.

Ah that worked. Thanks! Comment on a bit.

 

[ido1957]

I agree with what Rami wrote. You know I'm a fan of the big, open center. If you go wider on the guitars, you'll have a big space where the lead vocal can go, with the harmonies sitting closer in around it.

That lead Les Paul isn't centered when it's playing under the chorus vocal, and when doing that call-and-response in the verse? I thought it was too close but it sounded slightly left. I think especially with that fat, warm tone you're getting out of it, it doesn't want to be underfoot of the vocal. Good tone, BTW. I don't hear anything that needs fixing about the bass line.

Hi Robus - just getting back here after watching the new Star Wars movie on PPV. Great movie imho better than all but the first one.

Anyway, yes the main lead guitar is always centered in the song. There is a second set of, I guess you could call them lead guitar tracks, only during the chorus when I sing "Everything's turned upside down" and they are panned to 90% just to give that section some punch and sonic variety.

That part was actually just a riff in the main lead originally (same guitar/centered), and I was thinking about doing the dual part spread stereo thing at some point. Jason picked up on that part when he recorded the drums - you can hear him accenting that. When I heard that in the downloaded drum track, I had to add it to the chorus. I mute the main lead track when those two tracks are playing. I think it did the trick of adding some punch and space to that part.

I don't think panning a single lead part off center is going to do me much good as I find that type of thing distracts, pulling the listener's attention back and forth from side to center. I prefer a call response in the center of the mix. If I had a sax or keyboard soloing/noodling in addition to the guitar I might consider it but at the moment that's the reason. Plus it's the singer (me) who's playing that part and it's right behind me on the sound stage.

 

[andrushkiwt]

ugh, can't really come up with much to pick on. this is all done really well. i'd leave it up to some mastering touches to polish it off and give it a nice shine...good to go, from my ears. nice work!

 

[ido1957]

ugh, can't really come up with much to pick on. this is all done really well. i'd leave it up to some mastering touches to polish it off and give it a nice shine...good to go, from my ears. nice work!

Thanks Taras - I'm glad you like it !

 

[Chili]

Another great tune with the classic rock vibe. You guys always play to your strong points. I wouldn't mind hearing more high end from the bass to give it better definition. Just a nudge around 1k - 2k. Love the solid bottom, though.

I thought adding a little more crunch to the outside rhythm guitars during the choruses might help bring them out more. I didn't really notice they were there until I read your comments.

Enjoyed listening. Thanks for sharing.

 

[PoeticIntensity]

I sent Jason a copy last night and on buds he said it sounded good. He's going to try it on monitors and let me know how it sounds there. I'll see what he thinks of the drum level too as I want him to be happy with it being the drummer and all

So, I've listened to it a few times on my studio monitors, and I think the drum mix is good. It sounds nice and natural. What I wish is that I could hear the detail in the drums as much as I hear detail in everything else. The music mix is almost as if the drums were sonically in the background, and everything else is out front on stage and clear. I think that other's comments on bringing down the guitars and vocals will help bring the drums out more is good, and I agree.

If I were to mix this, I would probably do that, as well as get the guitars out of the way of the drums panning-wise. It sounds like the panning on the drums and the guitars are similar, so much so that the guitars are tending to cover the drums. I'd pan all of them, out to between 90% and 100%. I would also push the drum fader up until you can hear the snare during the times when everything is covering it up now. Just make sure that snare peeks out every time it hits, and that should be good. Light compresson on the drum bus can help tame any unwieldy dynamics, if needed.

Also, because your drummer couldn't hit the kick consistently, there are times when the kick is really snappy and comes out clear, and other times when it's lower and a bit mushier. Putting a mid-to-light compressor on the kick will most likely get rid of that problem.

Other than that, I think this drum-mix is way, way beyond your last attempt. They sound good, they're just low in the overall mix.

Thanks for letting me play along with you guys!

 

[TripleM]

I really liked the drum sounds. Good/tasteful playing too. I thought the vocals were solid - tone and performances. I liked the bass too.

The guitar sounds, while they nice the way they are, sound like they're missing the upper end of what electric guitars should have. I know I've said this before, but it sounds like guitars that had a low-pass filter on them that was set too low. Like there's nothing above 4Khz. I'm not saying that's what you did. I'm saying that's what they sound like to me. Nothing horrible, it's just I think they should have just a bit more sparkle.

 

[easlern]

Everything sounds well balanced to me, there's an odd frequency that's distorting in the vocal. Don't have the ear to tell you what it is but somewhere around 4k maybe? It's an edge that gives it some interest for a while but it's kind of fatiguing. I'd try to figure out what that is and damp it down a bit. Great performances all around!

 

[easlern]

Weird, I didn't notice your post until just now 3M, I wonder if it's related?

 

[ido1957]

Another great tune with the classic rock vibe. You guys always play to your strong points. I wouldn't mind hearing more high end from the bass to give it better definition. Just a nudge around 1k - 2k. Love the solid bottom, though. I thought adding a little more crunch to the outside rhythm guitars during the choruses might help bring them out more. I didn't really notice they were there until I read your comments. Enjoyed listening. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks Chili - Mike will be around later and he'd be the best guy to comment on the bass part The outside rhythm guitars I'll look at.

So, I've listened to it a few times on my studio monitors, and I think the drum mix is good. It sounds nice and natural. What I wish is that I could hear the detail in the drums as much as I hear detail in everything else. The music mix is almost as if the drums were sonically in the background, and everything else is out front on stage and clear. I think that other's comments on bringing down the guitars and vocals will help bring the drums out more is good, and I agree.

If I were to mix this, I would probably do that, as well as get the guitars out of the way of the drums panning-wise. It sounds like the panning on the drums and the guitars are similar, so much so that the guitars are tending to cover the drums. I'd pan all of them, out to between 90% and 100%. I would also push the drum fader up until you can hear the snare during the times when everything is covering it up now. Just make sure that snare peeks out every time it hits, and that should be good. Light compresson on the drum bus can help tame any unwieldy dynamics, if needed.

Also, because your drummer couldn't hit the kick consistently, there are times when the kick is really snappy and comes out clear, and other times when it's lower and a bit mushier. Putting a mid-to-light compressor on the kick will most likely get rid of that problem.

Other than that, I think this drum-mix is way, way beyond your last attempt. They sound good, they're just low in the overall mix.

Thanks for letting me play along with you guys!

Thanks Jason - unfortunately we can't take the credit for the drums mix - we used your stereo track I have had a few comments to pan the guitars out so I'll look into that and see if that brings the drums out some more. Thanks again for the great tracks.

I really liked the drum sounds. Good/tasteful playing too. I thought the vocals were solid - tone and performances. I liked the bass too.
The guitar sounds, while they nice the way they are, sound like they're missing the upper end of what electric guitars should have. I know I've said this before, but it sounds like guitars that had a low-pass filter on them that was set too low. Like there's nothing above 4Khz. I'm not saying that's what you did. I'm saying that's what they sound like to me. Nothing horrible, it's just I think they should have just a bit more sparkle.

Thanks TripleM - With regards the 4K guitar drop you hear - are you referring to the rhythm guitars or the lead guitar - or both? The tone knob is rolled back to 8 but there's no eq cuts on any of the guitars.

Everything sounds well balanced to me, there's an odd frequency that's distorting in the vocal. Don't have the ear to tell you what it is but somewhere around 4k maybe? It's an edge that gives it some interest for a while but it's kind of fatiguing. I'd try to figure out what that is and damp it down a bit. Great performances all around!

Thanks easlern - I will look at the 4K area on the mic eq and try to back it off to see if it helps.