Write better songs and maybe you won't be forgotten so easily. Lamenting over this as if it's someone else's fault that you can't sell a single is stupid.Yep, I cannot argue with what you have said. I agree 100%.
Also - definitely there are people who will listen and then will buy if they like it. But something tells me that majority will not. They will listen until they "get tired" from that song and then will shift to something new and that song will be forgotten. And another issue is that - how many people are searching for new songs from indie bands? I suspect most people are waiting for new clip of Lady Gaga. But I cannot say anything with respect to that - have no statistics
Marketing "How to", (he he)
- Thread starter Lugatt
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jimmys69
MOODerator
Yep, I cannot argue with what you have said. I agree 100%.
Also - definitely there are people who will listen and then will buy if they like it. But something tells me that majority will not. They will listen until they "get tired" from that song and then will shift to something new and that song will be forgotten. And another issue is that - how many people are searching for new songs from indie bands? I suspect most people are waiting for new clip of Lady Gaga. But I cannot say anything with respect to that - have no statistics
Lady GAGA got famous because she played naked in a video once.
Try that.
Lady GAGA got famous because she played naked in a video once.
Try that.
She was first and that trick is already outdated - will not work
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Sorta' like these threads.....
I shall write this post part by part, due to time issues.
First I shall explain the real reason of this topic. It is lets call it "Corporatization". Corporations and the guys who are behind them are slowly taking under control everything - markets, media, parliaments, authorities and etc. If corporation does not grow internationally it dies. Therefore they are entering new markets, opening new sub divisions and etc. The main problem is that corporation is interested only in profit. And they always shift production to the countries with lower cost of labour, and at the same time all financial resourced management is concentrated in their head offices. Corporations are introducing their rules of the game - production cost optimization leads to higher unemployment, competitive environment - leads to price and income reduction for independent subcontractors, leads to lower quality of the product as high quality is in direct correlation with costs and prices. They are growing, devouring everything that is on their way and live no space for small and medium business unless it is destroyed or merged. Corporation has advantages - consolidated resources of different types. And one thing that always made me mad is that a manager who produces nothing (marketing manager, PR manager, brand manager, HR manager or whatever it is) receives more than workers do - those who made real things.
TO be continued ... (I shall edit here)
First I shall explain the real reason of this topic. It is lets call it "Corporatization". Corporations and the guys who are behind them are slowly taking under control everything - markets, media, parliaments, authorities and etc. If corporation does not grow internationally it dies. Therefore they are entering new markets, opening new sub divisions and etc. The main problem is that corporation is interested only in profit. And they always shift production to the countries with lower cost of labour, and at the same time all financial resourced management is concentrated in their head offices. Corporations are introducing their rules of the game - production cost optimization leads to higher unemployment, competitive environment - leads to price and income reduction for independent subcontractors, leads to lower quality of the product as high quality is in direct correlation with costs and prices. They are growing, devouring everything that is on their way and live no space for small and medium business unless it is destroyed or merged. Corporation has advantages - consolidated resources of different types. And one thing that always made me mad is that a manager who produces nothing (marketing manager, PR manager, brand manager, HR manager or whatever it is) receives more than workers do - those who made real things.
TO be continued ... (I shall edit here)
I decided to white a new post ...
Same thing I can see in music industry. Majors are not interested in new artists or bands unless they have a large fanbase, and when those artists get signed it does not mean that they are free to experiment. They are obliged, and remuneration is another issue. Independent labels, do not have such resources as majors have and they have a little chance to reach success.
The only thing that sounds promising is internet marketing. But here everything is the same - giants altoughI do not if they are really big companies or companies with stuff of 5-10 people, but in anyway - reverbnation, myspace, stereofame and others - they promise something that they will never give. That is
EXPOSURE. In 2008 I discovered reverbnation. Something really great about that site at that time was that there was ability to directly contact the listeners. I made search checked "listeners" and sorted by newly registered. everyday there was about 200 new listeners on average. Majority did were listeners not artists. And I did had feedback - some liked some not and after a while I had about 1K fan-base.
Effective site was also numberonemusic.com. But was quite expensive for me and at that time had really poor interface. But I must admit - I got 400 email addresses of fans without doing anything but sending one email to the community once per two weeks - they have restrictions. But they ask you to pay annual USD 150 or 200, and pay by one payment. For me it is serious money (I am not USA or Europe based). I had bought their premium membership once for one year, and the only thing I wish that they was ability to pay on monthly basis. But it seems that they are part of reverbnation now. So they are gone.
All that is good and rational - goes away and stupidity and bureaucracy remains. Most stupid thing is that they are constantly improving site. It can be said about to every site whether it is stereofame or myspace or n1m. And now reverbnation has no such ability to sort listeners to find newly registered. There is no "streat team" feature. As a result check their traffic dynamics at Alexa - Actionable Analytics for the Web
Other thing is that they require upfront payment for example for uploading your songs to itunes. Thanks to God thee are smart people who takes commission along with prepayment (you can choose how to pay them). Check RouteNote: Sell Your Music Online - Digital Music Distribution - Promotion - Publishing - you will be able to upload at itunes amazon and etc without paying in advance.
In general all those music marketing sites are oriented to get money from artists, they do not provide artists with possibilities to find new listeners, they prefer that artists brings them new visitors. They do not offer exposure, they do not offer possibilities for advertisement at reasonable price or do not offer at all (check prices per click of advertisement on facebook for example and check price for advertisement on facebook from reverbnation).
There are other issues as well, but the main point is that I was not able to find a site for music marketing that is reasonable, flexible and has affordable prices for advertisement. No site now offers effective possibilities to find new listeners, to advertise yourself at reasonable price.
If you agree with this follow this topic, if not do not start discussion.
to be continued ...
Same thing I can see in music industry. Majors are not interested in new artists or bands unless they have a large fanbase, and when those artists get signed it does not mean that they are free to experiment. They are obliged, and remuneration is another issue. Independent labels, do not have such resources as majors have and they have a little chance to reach success.
The only thing that sounds promising is internet marketing. But here everything is the same - giants altoughI do not if they are really big companies or companies with stuff of 5-10 people, but in anyway - reverbnation, myspace, stereofame and others - they promise something that they will never give. That is
EXPOSURE. In 2008 I discovered reverbnation. Something really great about that site at that time was that there was ability to directly contact the listeners. I made search checked "listeners" and sorted by newly registered. everyday there was about 200 new listeners on average. Majority did were listeners not artists. And I did had feedback - some liked some not and after a while I had about 1K fan-base.
Effective site was also numberonemusic.com. But was quite expensive for me and at that time had really poor interface. But I must admit - I got 400 email addresses of fans without doing anything but sending one email to the community once per two weeks - they have restrictions. But they ask you to pay annual USD 150 or 200, and pay by one payment. For me it is serious money (I am not USA or Europe based). I had bought their premium membership once for one year, and the only thing I wish that they was ability to pay on monthly basis. But it seems that they are part of reverbnation now. So they are gone.
All that is good and rational - goes away and stupidity and bureaucracy remains. Most stupid thing is that they are constantly improving site. It can be said about to every site whether it is stereofame or myspace or n1m. And now reverbnation has no such ability to sort listeners to find newly registered. There is no "streat team" feature. As a result check their traffic dynamics at Alexa - Actionable Analytics for the Web
Other thing is that they require upfront payment for example for uploading your songs to itunes. Thanks to God thee are smart people who takes commission along with prepayment (you can choose how to pay them). Check RouteNote: Sell Your Music Online - Digital Music Distribution - Promotion - Publishing - you will be able to upload at itunes amazon and etc without paying in advance.
In general all those music marketing sites are oriented to get money from artists, they do not provide artists with possibilities to find new listeners, they prefer that artists brings them new visitors. They do not offer exposure, they do not offer possibilities for advertisement at reasonable price or do not offer at all (check prices per click of advertisement on facebook for example and check price for advertisement on facebook from reverbnation).
There are other issues as well, but the main point is that I was not able to find a site for music marketing that is reasonable, flexible and has affordable prices for advertisement. No site now offers effective possibilities to find new listeners, to advertise yourself at reasonable price.
If you agree with this follow this topic, if not do not start discussion.
to be continued ...
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
You don't give any reason for the topic.....you just want to "vent" about something that's beyond your control or not to your liking. You might as well complain about why we don't have world peace...or that there's a good chance an asteroid will kill us all one day.
You should try the Cave...they have those types of discussions all day, every day. We are waiting for someone in the Cave to discover the cure for cancer...any day now.
Is there really a POINT to your thread?
Like....are you expecting to change something here, or are you looking for some sort of guidance....or what?
Worlds like "something that's beyond your control" makes me smile a bit. There is nothing that is under our control. Even the next second of your life. You tell me what do you control first and than tell me what do you do in your life and what for?
Yes, I know, as for me I know exactly what to build. I have a concept. But first I would like to get other peoples' opinion on some issues. And most important is to see if there is a demand for, no I'd better say if there is enough discontent with online internet marketing. I am talking about real discontent, when people are ready to do something, rather than say - "it is beyond our control".
There are two types of people, Some people try in spite of everything and the others explains why it will not work. Which one do you belong to - define for yourself please.
Yes, I know, as for me I know exactly what to build. I have a concept. But first I would like to get other peoples' opinion on some issues. And most important is to see if there is a demand for, no I'd better say if there is enough discontent with online internet marketing. I am talking about real discontent, when people are ready to do something, rather than say - "it is beyond our control".
There are two types of people, Some people try in spite of everything and the others explains why it will not work. Which one do you belong to - define for yourself please.
Mr Clean
AKA Teddy Wong
I've got to agree with Miro here. OP, no one cares about your view on the music business or music websites on the internet. You're pissing in the wind here. We all know that it's a shite state of affairs but all the moaning in the world won't change a damn thing, sorry.
This bit actually made me laugh. You paid these people money for 400 email address's and to host a few mp3's? Seriously, stop reading and believing any old bullshit you're told on the internet. These websites may sound like a good gig but they're a con, plain and simple. 400 fans? How many of them contact you with regards to new music, gigs and info about you? Do you really believe people are following your work?
I looked at your website the other night but didn't comment on it but I will now because I'm here. I notice you have, in total, 4 pages. Other than your name and photo, there is no information on there, be it about you, the style of music you play, influences or anything remotely interesting enough to read and keep people on the pages or to return. All there is is BUY MY MUSIC - I WANT MONEY - BUY MY MUSIC AGAIN - CONTACT ME ABOUT BUYING MY MUSIC OR HELPING ME SELL MY MUSIC. Seriously, you may as well just put what I've just written on the page and nothing else.
As for the 1 minute clips of your music, you may as well not bother putting them up and just ask people to buy them without listening. The majority of people in the world won't purchase anything based on 1 minute of something. They have no idea how the rest goes.
You're all about marketing and the preaching of it but your website alone is a great example of terrible marketing.
Harsh words but I'm right.
Get a grip, get your head out of the clouds and stop giving stupid websites your time and definitely stop giving them MONEY! The free alternatives will do just as good a job.
First as I have written before - forget about my marketing. When I shall start marketing I shall invest in advertisement. And sites like this - full of musicians will be of zero interest.
400 fans? How many of them contact you with regards to new music, gigs and info about you?
Yes there were contacts emails and some sales. And most important that I did nothing for those 400 fans.
Again do not talk to me about my marketing especially with this outdated, sorry, suggestion that people have to know about you if you want them to buy your music.
I am talking here about marketing on the internet in general. Please address issues that i am raising here, do not address me or my marketing which I do not have so far as I have to made records that sounds ok first.
400 fans? How many of them contact you with regards to new music, gigs and info about you?
Yes there were contacts emails and some sales. And most important that I did nothing for those 400 fans.
Again do not talk to me about my marketing especially with this outdated, sorry, suggestion that people have to know about you if you want them to buy your music.
I am talking here about marketing on the internet in general. Please address issues that i am raising here, do not address me or my marketing which I do not have so far as I have to made records that sounds ok first.
And please if you do not like the topic or want to argue - let's do it somewhere else.
I shall repeat text in full
First I shall explain the real reason of this topic. It is lets call it "Corporatization". Corporations and the guys who are behind them are slowly taking under control everything - markets, media, parliaments, authorities and etc. If corporation does not grow internationally it dies. Therefore they are entering new markets, opening new sub divisions and etc. The main problem is that corporation is interested only in profit. And they always shift production to the countries with lower cost of labour, and at the same time all financial resourced management is concentrated in their head offices. Corporations are introducing their rules of the game - production cost optimization leads to higher unemployment, competitive environment - leads to price and income reduction for independent subcontractors, leads to lower quality of the product as high quality is in direct correlation with costs and prices. They are growing, devouring everything that is on their way and live no space for small and medium business unless it is destroyed or merged. Corporation has advantages - consolidated resources of different types. And one thing that always made me mad is that a manager who produces nothing (marketing manager, PR manager, brand manager, HR manager or whatever it is) receives more than workers do - those who made real things.
Same thing I can see in music industry. Majors are not interested in new artists or bands unless they have a large fanbase, and when those artists get signed it does not mean that they are free to experiment. They are obliged, and remuneration is another issue. Independent labels, do not have such resources as majors have and they have a little chance to reach success.
The only thing that sounds promising is internet marketing. But here everything is the same - giants altoughI do not if they are really big companies or companies with stuff of 5-10 people, but in anyway - reverbnation, myspace, stereofame and others - they promise something that they will never give. That is
EXPOSURE. In 2008 I discovered reverbnation. Something really great about that site at that time was that there was ability to directly contact the listeners. I made search checked "listeners" and sorted by newly registered. everyday there was about 200 new listeners on average. Majority did were listeners not artists. And I did had feedback - some liked some not and after a while I had about 1K fan-base.
Effective site was also numberonemusic.com. But was quite expensive for me and at that time had really poor interface. But I must admit - I got 400 email addresses of fans without doing anything but sending one email to the community once per two weeks - they have restrictions. But they ask you to pay annual USD 150 or 200, and pay by one payment. For me it is serious money (I am not USA or Europe based). I had bought their premium membership once for one year, and the only thing I wish that they was ability to pay on monthly basis. But it seems that they are part of reverbnation now. So they are gone.
All that is good and rational - goes away and stupidity and bureaucracy remains. Most stupid thing is that they are constantly improving site. It can be said about to every site whether it is stereofame or myspace or n1m. And now reverbnation has no such ability to sort listeners to find newly registered. There is no "streat team" feature. As a result check their traffic dynamics at Alexa - Actionable Analytics for the Web
Other thing is that they require upfront payment for example for uploading your songs to itunes. Thanks to God thee are smart people who takes commission along with prepayment (you can choose how to pay them). Check RouteNote: Sell Your Music Online - Digital Music Distribution - Promotion - Publishing - you will be able to upload at itunes amazon and etc without paying in advance.
In general all those music marketing sites are oriented to get money from artists, they do not provide artists with possibilities to find new listeners, they prefer that artists brings them new visitors. They do not offer exposure, they do not offer possibilities for advertisement at reasonable price or do not offer at all (check prices per click of advertisement on facebook for example and check price for advertisement on facebook from reverbnation).
There are other issues as well, but the main point is that I was not able to find a site for music marketing that is reasonable, flexible and has affordable prices for advertisement. No site now offers effective possibilities to find new listeners, to advertise yourself at reasonable price.
If you agree with this follow this topic, if not do not start discussion.
AND REMEMBER - DO NOT START DISCUSSIONS. IF YOU AGREE - FOLLOW, IF YOU DO NOT - PASS BY PLEASE. OR AT LEAST IF YOU ARE ARGUING SAY SOMETHING ABOUT ISSUES I RAISE, NOT ABOUT ME.
I shall repeat text in full
First I shall explain the real reason of this topic. It is lets call it "Corporatization". Corporations and the guys who are behind them are slowly taking under control everything - markets, media, parliaments, authorities and etc. If corporation does not grow internationally it dies. Therefore they are entering new markets, opening new sub divisions and etc. The main problem is that corporation is interested only in profit. And they always shift production to the countries with lower cost of labour, and at the same time all financial resourced management is concentrated in their head offices. Corporations are introducing their rules of the game - production cost optimization leads to higher unemployment, competitive environment - leads to price and income reduction for independent subcontractors, leads to lower quality of the product as high quality is in direct correlation with costs and prices. They are growing, devouring everything that is on their way and live no space for small and medium business unless it is destroyed or merged. Corporation has advantages - consolidated resources of different types. And one thing that always made me mad is that a manager who produces nothing (marketing manager, PR manager, brand manager, HR manager or whatever it is) receives more than workers do - those who made real things.
Same thing I can see in music industry. Majors are not interested in new artists or bands unless they have a large fanbase, and when those artists get signed it does not mean that they are free to experiment. They are obliged, and remuneration is another issue. Independent labels, do not have such resources as majors have and they have a little chance to reach success.
The only thing that sounds promising is internet marketing. But here everything is the same - giants altoughI do not if they are really big companies or companies with stuff of 5-10 people, but in anyway - reverbnation, myspace, stereofame and others - they promise something that they will never give. That is
EXPOSURE. In 2008 I discovered reverbnation. Something really great about that site at that time was that there was ability to directly contact the listeners. I made search checked "listeners" and sorted by newly registered. everyday there was about 200 new listeners on average. Majority did were listeners not artists. And I did had feedback - some liked some not and after a while I had about 1K fan-base.
Effective site was also numberonemusic.com. But was quite expensive for me and at that time had really poor interface. But I must admit - I got 400 email addresses of fans without doing anything but sending one email to the community once per two weeks - they have restrictions. But they ask you to pay annual USD 150 or 200, and pay by one payment. For me it is serious money (I am not USA or Europe based). I had bought their premium membership once for one year, and the only thing I wish that they was ability to pay on monthly basis. But it seems that they are part of reverbnation now. So they are gone.
All that is good and rational - goes away and stupidity and bureaucracy remains. Most stupid thing is that they are constantly improving site. It can be said about to every site whether it is stereofame or myspace or n1m. And now reverbnation has no such ability to sort listeners to find newly registered. There is no "streat team" feature. As a result check their traffic dynamics at Alexa - Actionable Analytics for the Web
Other thing is that they require upfront payment for example for uploading your songs to itunes. Thanks to God thee are smart people who takes commission along with prepayment (you can choose how to pay them). Check RouteNote: Sell Your Music Online - Digital Music Distribution - Promotion - Publishing - you will be able to upload at itunes amazon and etc without paying in advance.
In general all those music marketing sites are oriented to get money from artists, they do not provide artists with possibilities to find new listeners, they prefer that artists brings them new visitors. They do not offer exposure, they do not offer possibilities for advertisement at reasonable price or do not offer at all (check prices per click of advertisement on facebook for example and check price for advertisement on facebook from reverbnation).
There are other issues as well, but the main point is that I was not able to find a site for music marketing that is reasonable, flexible and has affordable prices for advertisement. No site now offers effective possibilities to find new listeners, to advertise yourself at reasonable price.
If you agree with this follow this topic, if not do not start discussion.
AND REMEMBER - DO NOT START DISCUSSIONS. IF YOU AGREE - FOLLOW, IF YOU DO NOT - PASS BY PLEASE. OR AT LEAST IF YOU ARE ARGUING SAY SOMETHING ABOUT ISSUES I RAISE, NOT ABOUT ME.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
^^^^^ this ^^^^^
The music biz has collapsed now that there are so many alternatives.
It's simply the case that music is no longer super important to the masses like it was back when music was basically the ONLY entertainment game in town.
And music also used to be the 'social media' of its day ..... making political and social points ..... "Let's get out of Viet Nam" and so on.
Plus, back when playing a record meant you had to choose one, get it off the shelf ... clean it .... put it on .... then in 20 minutes you had to pick another one or change sides, it was just a much more hands-on process than having your iPod on shuffle or using Spotify.
The OP is correct about one thing though .... the old bizness model is dead and gone ..... but don't think you're gonna find a way to get results like the old days in some new way because the music biz, in general, is dead and gone.
Also .... OP .... you don't get to dictate what others say in your threads ........... sorry but that's just the way it is.
It's clear that you do not understand this stuff.
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Totally agree. But current situation is not acceptable and to make small and lets say local changes will not harm the masses and maybe will be developed by someone else in something new and valuable.
Yep , but they are making me mad. I am talking about online music marketing - and they are focusing on me. If my issues is of no interest why do not pass by? But, no they have to say that i have bad mixes (ok say it but there is a place for that and I have opened a relative topic) they have to say about my bad marketing (but who cares about my marketing, which one of the readers?).
Talk about negative and positive effect and trade off between them - regarding free samples and full time previews on the one hand and watermarks or 30 sec previews on the other hand.
Talk about my opinion on the issues above - yes agree, no disagree because of that that and that. But no - "moaning, buy my songs, help me to sell my mp3s" as if no one wants to sell their songs and I am a single freak. And do nto tell me about my marketing again, when I start it you not know, unless fid my adds on facebook or google. thanks to God it is not expensive.
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grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
I do not get your logic here Lugatt. In a long post like you've done {in two
long posts}, there are likely to be points that one is in agreement with and points one may not be in agreement with. On a public forum such as this, you will get different people with different experiences and thought processes and they have the freedom to take any thread in whichever direction they choose. I agree it can be annoying at times if things go seriously off the topic for most of the thread ~ but disagreeing with your points is not going off the topic. Saying that it's luck if you make it or that the music biz has collapsed are not off the topic.
It's a lesson to learn but you stated yourself that there's nothing we control {I disagree with that, by the way} ~ that's often the case with threads.
Cannot not to thank you for quoting what I wrote.
I am not talking about disagreeing. I write long posts to find "argumented" disagreement that will make me think. But when I am talking about - it is better not to give away free samples and protect with watermark or give 30 sec preview, disagreement like your watermarks are terrible - is nothing. Yes they are terrible, thank you I removed them. So what? It does not proves that watermarks are bad marketing especially when I refer to audiojungle.com .
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