Looking for a mixer for a Tascam 38?

R

rito25

New member
I bought a tascam 38. I am looking for a mixer for one but I am having harder time than I should finding one that will do I want want it to do.
I need at least 8 channels that have mic inputs and line in/line out. Preferably I would like a 10 or more channel mixer that can do a submix, so that way the drums can have use 4 mics or more but still only taking up 2 tracks. Any suggestions?
 
TASCAM made a number of mixers during the same era that the 38 came from which fill all the requirements you wanted such as the 300 series boards that came in 8,12 and 20 channel frames with direct outs, 4 buss group outs and host of other good features. There was also an upgraded version of them called the 300B series which added phantom power. There was also the 500 series which came in 12 and 20 channel frames with an 8 buss subgroup design also with phantom power but was a slightly older design with separate RCA pin jack insert in and outs which requires jumpers when not in use. These boards don't come up often for sale but they're worth the hunt to find as they're very clean, heavy duty mixers and were very expensive in their day because they used separate circuit boards for each channel and healthy power supplies to drive them with lots of headroom before clipping.

Newer cheaper boards from Yamaha and Mackie cut corners using surface mount technology on one big board and don't sound quite as smooth or open but are more prevalent on the used market because they were cheaper and aimed squarely at the lower budget home studio market, where the TASCAM's mentioned were considered pro use gear for smaller budget studios and touring companies.

Cheers! :)
 
Ok. One thing that confuses me though. With a tape machine the channels are different than digital if that makes sense?

Like if it's an 4 track mixer with 8 inputs. But each those inputs has a line in and out which is what the tascam needs, right?
So then would those 4 tracks be sub channels? or would I just not not use them?
 
The buss/program system is a means of allowing you to send and combination of mixer channels to any of the 4 or 8 buss/program channels, depending on which mixer we're talking about. And those buss/program feeds go to the input of your 38 tape machine. On a 4 buss mixer, the 1-2-3-4 buss output jacks are doubled on the back of the mixer to feed the 5-6-7-8 channels of your recorder. So buss one feeds tracks 1 & 5, buss two feeds tracks 2 & 6, buss three feeds 3 & 7 and buss four feeds track 4 & 8. On an 8 buss board, each tape track has its own buss with no need to share.

So if you record by yourself or with one other person, usually a 4 buss mixer will do the trick as the most you might be playing or recording at one time is 2 or 3 of tracks. As an example, starting off a song, you might need to record a stereo drum machine track along with a rhythm guitar track and once that's done, go on to add on the other parts of the song, one at a time. So you could re-route those additional parts to the different tracks. If you record a whole band, live in one take, then an 8 buss board would be ideal so that you could create a multi mic'ed drum kit to feed buss 1 & 2 and then each additional part to the remaining 6 busses.

Getting the picture?

Cheers! :)
 
Yes. This is the best explanation I've heard. I am going to record a full 4 to 5 piece band. I figure the drums will take at least 3 or more channels to mic (the drummer uses a very basic kit. Kick, snare, floor tom, a tom, hihat, and like 3 cymbals.) There is a ramsa board I'm interested in. Was this brand any good?
 
rito25 said:
Like if it's an 4 track mixer with 8 inputs. But each those inputs has a line in and out which is what the tascam needs, right?
So then would those 4 tracks be sub channels? or would I just not not use them?
Click to expand...
The mixers have both buss outputs and have direct outputs.

If you're wanting to use 8 different mics on a drum kit, you'll need to use the buss system to route those mics to a couple of tape tracks. If you're recording a single instrument to a single tape track, you could make use of the direct out of the mixer channel to feed the tape track direct and bypass the buss system of the mixer. Using the direct outs requires you to physically plug and unplug cables and the buss system allows you to keep your tape deck mixer connections intact and just use the mixer's pushbuttons to route the mixer channel strip to the buss/tape track of your choice.

Apologies if all of this sounds confusing but it sounds like you've got little to no experience with analog mixers and you need to know this stuff in order to use them. Sort of like learning a road map, understanding what a mixer can and can not do for you is a lot like looking at a road map and figuring out how to get from point A to B.

The TASCAM mixers I originally suggested come with very well detailed owners manuals that have signal road maps and once you see them, rather then reading my words describing them, you'll get a clearer idea of how you can get the signals to go where you need them to and what buttons and faders you need to set in order to achieve that.

Cheers! :)
 
rito25 said:
Yes. This is the best explanation I've heard. I am going to record a full 4 to 5 piece band. I figure the drums will take at least 3 or more channels to mic (the drummer uses a very basic kit. Kick, snare, floor tom, a tom, hihat, and like 3 cymbals.) There is a ramsa board I'm interested in. Was this brand any good?
Click to expand...

Thanks!

OK, so it sounds like you're going to be needing an 8 buss board. You could get by with a 4 buss but it will require you manually patching cables and using the buss system for things like the drum kit. This is doable but requires a full understanding of the mixer's routing possibilities. An 8 buss board will have an easier learning curve and no manual re patching.

The Ramsa boards are also very nice and roughly equivalent to the ones I mentioned from TASCAM. Which ever you choose, make sure you get the manual for it as many sellers seem to lose them.

Cheers! :)
 
Most I've used is a cheapo radioshack 3 channel to stereo mixer which I've use to record pretty basic things. I have a friend in a studio. I get how things should be miked fairly well. And I've done recording on simple 2 track reel to reel machines. I'm just not used to dealing with this level of complexity in an analog form. Anything that needed to be overdubbed I'd just use my computer.
 
rito25 said:
Most I've used is a cheapo radioshack 3 channel to stereo mixer which I've use to record pretty basic things. I have a friend in a studio. I get how things should be miked fairly well. And I've done recording on simple 2 track reel to reel machines. I'm just not used to dealing with this level of complexity in an analog form. Anything that needed to be overdubbed I'd just use my computer.
Click to expand...

I see.

Yeah, the one drawback to most computer recording programs is that you don't actually see the signal map and that's why people who come from a digital recording experience have a bit of trouble wrapping their head around an complex analog systems where there is a seemingly messy looking physical wire highway to manage through a combination of buttons, faders and plugging stuff in and out.

But it sounds like you've got a bit of experience with that so it will become clearer with actual usage. Sort of like being comfortable on a quiet 1 lane country road and then entering an 8 lane expressway for the first time. :eek:

Cheers! :)
 
Ok. Would you recommend someone to get a 16 track mixer? There is a good quality Ramsa near by but it's only 10 channels, unless you'd think that was enough.
 
rito25 said:
Ok. Would you recommend someone to get a 16 track mixer? There is a good quality Ramsa near by but it's only 10 channels, unless you'd think that was enough.
Click to expand...

To record a live band with an acoustic drum kit, a 10 channel board will be tricky and limiting to work with. Plus its only a 4 buss design, so that's also is going to put up more road blocks and especially so if it doesn't have direct outs on each channel, which as mentioned previously, will require a more complicated hook up.

Nice as it might be, I'd hold off on it and look for an 8 buss board with 16 channels or more so that you've got some breathing room.

If you were only recording by yourself, it would be a different story.

Cheers! :)
 
I was thinking that I would do so. I've been told to stay away from PA mixers when using tape, yet most of the 16 track mixers I see are counsels which are sorta out of my price range for now or they are PA mixers. Is there any compromise in a situation like this or will I just have get one or the other?
 
rito25 said:
I was thinking that I would do so. I've been told to stay away from PA mixers when using tape, yet most of the 16 track mixers I see are counsels which are sorta out of my price range for now or they are PA mixers. Is there any compromise in a situation like this or will I just have get one or the other?
Click to expand...

Some mixers can double as live or studio, such as Allen and Heath or Soundcraft. You just have to know what you're looking at. Don't get anything powered. Most mixers set up for mutl-busses like you're looking for are used for recording. Live PA's general have a pair of stereo outs.
 
rito25 said:
I was thinking that I would do so. I've been told to stay away from PA mixers when using tape, yet most of the 16 track mixers I see are counsels which are sorta out of my price range for now or they are PA mixers. Is there any compromise in a situation like this or will I just have get one or the other?
Click to expand...

PA boards usually don't have the monitoring facilities for multi track recorders but it's not a universal rule that they don't.

The mixers I was originally mentioning were marketed as dual purpose, which means they had to sound good, be reasonably clean and quiet, have the full monitoring facilities needed for studio recording and be built rigidly enough to be thrown into the back of a van to do double duty for small working bands that needed a reliable PA board for their live shows. So yeah, that's not horrible advise you previously received but its not a carved in stone rule either.

Soundcraft might be another brand to keep your eye out for as they too made some very capable recording/PA boards back in the 80's and 90's that were built even better then the TASCAM and Ramsa boards such as their 400 series boards which saw a lot of double duty in PA and pro studio use.

If you have enough time to do this, the right board will probably come along. But if your funds are limited and you need to get something right away, you'll probably end up grabbing something that will have compromises. That's between you and your wallet and watch.

Also keep in mind that any mixer which was originally priced at three to five grand when new and is being offered for under 200 bucks is probably going to come with problems like dead channels, busted off knobs and switches or weird ground hums or buzzes and especially so if they were PA boards which get abused from rough handling and inexperienced sound guys who fry it with overly hot signals or dump their beer onto it. Recording boards tend to be respected by their owners a fair bit more. So if you're not a technician who can do your own repairs, think about what the real cost of a $150 mixer is by the time you pay a technician 100 bucks an hour plus parts to fix it.

As carpenters like to say, measure twice, cut once.

Cheers! :)
 
First of all stay out of radio shack. Next decide whats available to you in your area. You dont say where you are at. I had a 38 at one point. I liked it best with a brighter sounding mixer but your taste may be different. My best match was a Fostex 450-16. You should look for direct outs and at least 3 auxillaries prefferably 4. Ramsa are highly recomended I worked at a studio with a 820B. Excellent mixer I wish I had it today. But 10 inputs is cutting it close. Ghost's suggestion 0f a Tascam 320B is a decent option I had that one once. Thick and rich is how I would describe it with great recording features and at the prices they go for you could get 5 of them for what I paid for mine. Tell us more about what choices are available. And as Ghost said dont rush.
 
I live in Newark, DE. I haven't been able to test out the Tascam yet as I lack tape, and I need to get the funds to replace the pinch roller.
The Ramsa being sold locally is about the only good option right now. The drummer in my brother's band has mixing board, but I want to say it's for a PA system. One or two of my musician friends may have a small limited mixer I can use to test things out until I can afford a board. I have some time, but the band wants a lot of experimentation which I need to figure out so the soon I can start messing around the better.
 
I forgot , the Allen&Heath and Soundcraft boards run mostly at +4 dB , your Tascam 38 needs a mixer that works at -10 dB. So you're better off sticking with the Tascam mixers. Do some research on what you find. Some of them can do both.
 
I have a Tascam 38 too & the best mixer you can get is the Fostex 454 or Fostex 450. It has 8 direct in 8 direct out and 4 channel buss which is great for grouping your drums to two tracks. I saw a 450 go on ebay a couple of days ago for 200 bucks! There's one on ebay right now for 350 bucks sorry i can't post the link cause it won't allow me to as i'm a newbie. Good Luck ;-)
 
there are a couple more even cheaper. Keywords: fostex mixer
i have no opinion on the sound. i wouldn't expect a neve or api console, but it should do the job.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top