Learning your room/monitors

HangDawg

HangDawg

bUnGhOlIo
I've come to the conclusion that trying to compensate for a small mixing environment by learning how to fuck up your mix to make it sound right elsewhere is futile. I had tons of bass trapping in there but it still wasn't enough. I got tired of telling people things like, "Oh ignore the fact there's no kick drum, It'll kill you when you hear it in your car." So I went a little nuts and tore down the wall in my studio and now have 1 room that's 22' x 14' As soon as that wall came and I got my desk moved, all became clear. No more taking a mix outside and saying what the fuck is that.
 
Add some non-parallel walls, and you'll really be amazed......

My room is about 11X13 and mixes translate EXTREMELY well.
 
I built the walls in my studio so I'd be surprised if they were exactly parallel;).
I should have made intentionally non-parallel.
 
NL5 said:
Add some non-parallel walls, and you'll really be amazed......

My room is about 11X13 and mixes translate EXTREMELY well.
Click to expand...


I may still slope the ceiling up away from the mix position. That's the best I could short of tearing the whole thing down and starting over.







Hmmmmmmm;)
 
HangDawg said:
I've come to the conclusion that trying to compensate for a small mixing environment by learning how to fuck up your mix to make it sound right elsewhere is futile. I had tons of bass trapping in there but it still wasn't enough. I got tired of telling people things like, "Oh ignore the fact there's no kick drum, It'll kill you when you hear it in your car." So I went a little nuts and tore down the wall in my studio and now have 1 room that's 22' x 14' As soon as that wall came and I got my desk moved, all became clear. No more taking a mix outside and saying what the fuck is that.
Click to expand...

Just curious, what were the dimensions of the room prior to the teardown?
 
My ceiling already slopes. I should probably shift my mixing/listening position so that my monitors are under the lower part of the ceiling, right?
 
HangDawg said:
I've come to the conclusion that trying to compensate for a small mixing environment by learning how to fuck up your mix to make it sound right elsewhere is futile. I had tons of bass trapping in there but it still wasn't enough. I got tired of telling people things like, "Oh ignore the fact there's no kick drum, It'll kill you when you hear it in your car." So I went a little nuts and tore down the wall in my studio and now have 1 room that's 22' x 14' As soon as that wall came and I got my desk moved, all became clear. No more taking a mix outside and saying what the fuck is that.
Click to expand...


I'm curious what monitors you are using. I'm in a small room too with treatment on the front & rear walls only and I have had very good luck.
I still plan on adding more treatment when the wallet allows but more for same room recording.

F.S.
 
Freudian Slip said:
I'm curious what monitors you are using. I'm in a small room too with treatment on the front & rear walls only and I have had very good luck.
I still plan on adding more treatment when the wallet allows but more for same room recording.

F.S.
Click to expand...


If your ever in Vancouver, you should come check out how I have my CR. Pretty cheap conversion really, and it is pretty flat, and translates extremely well. John Sayers is an immense help!
 
Freudian Slip said:
I'm curious what monitors you are using. I'm in a small room too with treatment on the front & rear walls only and I have had very good luck.
I still plan on adding more treatment when the wallet allows but more for same room recording.

F.S.
Click to expand...


Event SP8s Could have been part of or the whole problem :D
 
HangDawg said:
Event SP8s Could have been part of or the whole problem :D
Click to expand...


Funny you way that. I have asp8's and I love them. Everyone in the room likes what they hear as opposed to my old bx8's that sounded like shit if you were not in the mix position. The asp8's have petty much zero cabnit resonance so it is a much cleaner bass that takes a bit of getting used to.

I did mess around alot with positioning and closeness to the wall. I also did a 1db cutt on the high end. Who knows how the passive crossovers effect things vs the bi amped. I personally ended with the speakers within a foot of the wall on stands.
Wish I had a wall to knock down in my live room but, I would be outside:D

Good luck on it.

F.S.
 
NL5 said:
If your ever in Vancouver, you should come check out how I have my CR. Pretty cheap conversion really, and it is pretty flat, and translates extremely well. John Sayers is an immense help!
Click to expand...


I would love to stop by some time. We will have to set something up.


F.S.
 
One thing that worked great in our room is running some sine wavs. Some audio guys will say this is a bad idea for various reasons, but when you hear a frequency ring out the whole room like you are about to be taken over by aliens, its a good sign you need more trapping and better speaker placement. So find a sine wav and move the speakers around the room to see where in the room they sound the most flat, always listening in a equalateral triangle mix position.
 
YellowMatter said:
One thing that worked great in our room is running some sine wavs. Some audio guys will say this is a bad idea for various reasons, but when you hear a frequency ring out the whole room like you are about to be taken over by aliens, its a good sign you need more trapping and better speaker placement. So find a sine wav and move the speakers around the room to see where in the room they sound the most flat, always listening in a equalateral triangle mix position.
Click to expand...

Using pure tone isn't a good idea to help cure your acoustic problems. How much music do you listen to which is just sine waves?

There's also the fact that your ear is more sensitive to certain frequencies even for two waves of different frequencies with the same SPL. For a better idea look for some equal loudness contours (google/wikipedia) and you'll see what I mean.

If you're intent on using sine waves, then you need to use a measurement mic (or an SPL meter) and a weighting filter (I suggest A-weighting); i.e. something that alters the reading based on a phon curve (from the equal loudness contours); thus roughly corresponding to how one hears.

Hope that makes sense and isn't too confusing; like I said, use google to find something more coherent!
 
NL5 said:
Add some non-parallel walls, and you'll really be amazed......

My room is about 11X13 and mixes translate EXTREMELY well.
Click to expand...

What's the trick? I have the same size room and it sucks ass. Of course, not knowing how to mix doesn't help my case any, but every little bit helps, ya know? :o:)
 
pezking said:
If you're intent on using sine waves, then you need to use a measurement mic (or an SPL meter) and a weighting filter (I suggest A-weighting); i.e. something that alters the reading based on a phon curve (from the equal loudness contours); thus roughly corresponding to how one hears.
Click to expand...

The fact that music isn't a sine wave is irrelevant. Indeed, any wave can be broken down into its constituent sine waves.

However, you do need to measure with something other than your ears. A measurement mic is a good idea. A-weighting is not a good idea for room analysis; it ignores bass frequencies, where most of the problems lie.

You can use a broadband frequency sweep, or white or pink noise, whatever you prefer (I would only recommend monitor level calibration with pink noise, but for room analysis nearly anything full-spectrum will work). I listen to test signals more often than music (sadly enough), and any of those methods will work fine as long as you reference back to your source file.

The problems with room response are so significant that they will not be easily missed.
 
NL5 said:
The Trick???

My Control room was laid out according to John Sayers.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6320

:D
Click to expand...
NL5, Great job on the CR build! Looks great! I'm envious...

If I can pull off-topic for a bit, I'm wondering about heat issues, if any, with that setup. A combination of having powered monitors enclosed within unventerlated enclosures, a similar situation with the flush-mount equipment raks, and a Trident80 at the wheel. I'd think it would get extremely hot in there real quick, including perhaps problematic circulation problems for some of the gear.

Am I just stirring up a tempest in a teacup here, or have you addressed this issue with any special HVAC design?

G.
 
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