Knots In White Cotton (Super Jakes Remix)

robgreen

robgreen

no face
I'm trying to pull some tunes together for a bit of an album at the moment - revisiting everything and going back to the mixes to try and improve em. A couple of years ago when I did some vocals for kcearl's album, we discussed a remix of one of my tunes, but never got round to it. Anyway, I asked keith recently if he'd be interested in resurrecting the idea to include on there and I was really stoked that he was. He's just sent me a first pass at it and we're both keen to hear what clinic folks make of it.

I really love what he's done with it:



...and here's the original (which still needs revisiting) for comparison:



Cheers y'all :)
 
I remember the original as I was amused by the title & its conotation in Australian English.
The original is gentle and unassuming.
The KC Remix is more up front & demands to be noticed where as the original sneaks up & catches unawares.
The vocals sit really well in the remix & retain their gentle nuances.
The reggaed touches work a treat.
If I had the option I'd put both on an album using the original as a reprise/outro track.
Cool work gents.
 
Yeah. Way better. It realizes the song better than before. I still think the vocal needs to better highlighted, though. Some of the lyrics are getting lost. For instance: "Into the void we're hurled; farewell cruel world." It's hard to make out the words. Whoever decides to mix this one finally: The music's not the main focus of this tune, it's just the support. The vocal's the main focus. Make it work. (That goes for the girl vocal that comes in as well.) I mean, mostly I think it's a question of balance. Turn up the damn vocals.
 
the remix is just way better, you can hear everything properly, the original mix sounds muddy in comparison and over complicated with too many tracks.
 
rayc said:
I remember the original as I was amused by the title & its conotation in Australian English.
The original is gentle and unassuming.
The KC Remix is more up front & demands to be noticed where as the original sneaks up & catches unawares.
The vocals sit really well in the remix & retain their gentle nuances.
The reggaed touches work a treat.
If I had the option I'd put both on an album using the original as a reprise/outro track.
Cool work gents.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks a lot Ray. Yeah, my intention was always to include both on the album - rather than one to compete with the other for inclusion. I think they're both different enough to justify it. I'm glad it works for you - I love KC's additions as well as what he did with the original stems. The original was written with every element of the mix theoretically able to layer on top of any other element, which I always thought would make it ripe for a reinterpretation - and so i'm glad it did.

dobro said:
Yeah. Way better. It realizes the song better than before. I still think the vocal needs to better highlighted, though. Some of the lyrics are getting lost. For instance: "Into the void we're hurled; farewell cruel world." It's hard to make out the words. Whoever decides to mix this one finally: The music's not the main focus of this tune, it's just the support. The vocal's the main focus. Make it work. (That goes for the girl vocal that comes in as well.) I mean, mostly I think it's a question of balance. Turn up the damn vocals.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot dobro. Looks like I wasn't clear in the OP that I was intending to include both versions. The way I see it is that the vocal is the main focus of the original (on which it does sound way out in front to me) whereas it's just one element of the tune in the remix (and so can be a bit lower). Does that make sense?
 
Btyre2013 said:
the remix is just way better, you can hear everything properly, the original mix sounds muddy in comparison and over complicated with too many tracks.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for listening Ben - yeah, KC has done a really good job on the remix. I agree that the original sounds a little muddy (especially when played directly after the new mix) - it's from a couple of years ago and I haven't got round to revisiting it yet. That's still on my to do list - hopefully my mixing abilities are now a bit better developed to get it up to standard. I'd never thought of it as overcomplicated before - I felt everything kind of 'fitted', but I'll bear that in mind when I come back to it. Cheers :)
 
I remember you posting the original. I listened to the remix and didn't recognize it all.

It's good. Including both in the album, would be pretty cool. It'll require some serious remixing/mastering to get the original to seem to fit with the new version though. It's a lot quieter and more distant.
 
Thanks for the feedback so far guys

Im having to move this week then will be in limbo for a month so it was good to get folks thoughts

Its a much cleaner, more modern mix, quite crisp in the high mid frequencies, I also psuedo mastered mine which makes it jump out more than the original mix. Im sure if the levels were similar the difference in perceived improvements would diminish, theyre very different styles.

I started to automate some of the vocals, I think its generally in the ball park but because the bass synth is overbearing I either need to sidechain them or automate in greater detail. The wurli needs to either come up or be cut out too..dunno

Theres a sub kick that needs tweaking and I still think theres a little lack of clarity in some parts (when the delayed guitar and "jupiter" pad are playing together). The main drum beat is a sampled break, so it just loops itself, I need to chop it up or cut it away at points to let the programmed drums come through and break the monotony. It was also my shitty guitar I used on the skank, the others are in storage, not sure it sounds right tbh, maybe retrack..the delays dub out to long on it as well

I love the tune though, Rob writes so well, I think it suites itself to a trip hop vibe well and its all in the cans at the mo' so I can improve it when I get my monitors out.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
I remember you posting the original. I listened to the remix and didn't recognize it all.

It's good. Including both in the album, would be pretty cool. It'll require some serious remixing/mastering to get the original to seem to fit with the new version though. It's a lot quieter and more distant.
Click to expand...

Ha, yeah - that goes for all the other songs now! They're all going to need some serious remixing/mastering to avoid this looking like a diamond in the mud. I haven't touched the song for a couple of years, but KC created the remix from individual tracks from this version of the rendered as wav files - so on that basis I'm hopeful that I can get it up to standard too. I'm glad you thought it was good Steve, thanks for listening man :)
 
I really like the remix. It really adds a lot to the track and brings out the best bits. That said, I prefer the more laid back original version. That's just a taste thing though. Both versions are great on their own merit.

Top job on both parts in my opinion. :thumbs up:
 
Mr Clean said:
I really like the remix. It really adds a lot to the track and brings out the best bits. That said, I prefer the more laid back original version. That's just a taste thing though. Both versions are great on their own merit.

Top job on both parts in my opinion. :thumbs up:
Click to expand...

Great, thanks a lot for listening Mr Clean. I'm glad to hear both versions work and both seem distinct enough from each other. Cheers man :thumbs up:
 
The new mix is obviously much fuller. Vocal sounds a ton better too. Not much I can add to what's been said.

The only thing I'd check out is the low end of the new mix. There is a low frequency, somewhere in the mid-to-upper 100hz 's that's jumping out.

Otherwise, sounds good.
 
TripleM said:
The new mix is obviously much fuller. Vocal sounds a ton better too. Not much I can add to what's been said.

The only thing I'd check out is the low end of the new mix. There is a low frequency, somewhere in the mid-to-upper 100hz 's that's jumping out.

Otherwise, sounds good.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your ears trip. I'll leave kc to pick up on anything to do with the new mix - but hopefully I'll get the original fuller in time too. Cheers :)
 
I personally prefer the original version, but since this is about the mix, kcearl's mix treatment is about a trillion times better to me. Punchy, thick, crispy, all at the same time. A little boomy here and there, but overall really solid. It sounds "finished" where the original still has a little way to go. Both of these mixes are way outside of my comfort zone, so I'll just leave it at that.
 
Listening to the remix version...Solid low end, and the percussion works without taking over. The vocal is a little dry for my taste, could use at least a tiny bit of reverb or something to make it sit a bit. This is pretty damn solid though, good arrangement, overall a great song. I love the atmosphere, something that I always tend to like in your stuff.

In listening to the original, I think I like the saturation on the vocals better than the remix.
 
its just a style thing...like an old mix to a modern mix...my stuffs all based around modern electronic music, and even though Greg, and folks like Rami, may mix older styles/genres (sorry) they are modern punchy mixes

When I hear Rob and more accomplished mixers (sorry Rob) like Ray, they make vintage mixes because thats what they hear or listen to

Ive had a few beers so I might not be making sense lol...its all about the lows and the mid highs...or the IPA's :D
 
Lows and mid highs? So what's your mix done with the lows and mid highs to make it sound like that?
 
Greg_L said:
I personally prefer the original version, but since this is about the mix, kcearl's mix treatment is about a trillion times better to me. Punchy, thick, crispy, all at the same time. A little boomy here and there, but overall really solid. It sounds "finished" where the original still has a little way to go.
Click to expand...

Thanks Greg, good to get your take - I need to incorporate some of those characteristics into the original for sure.

Greg_L said:
Both of these mixes are way outside of my comfort zone, so I'll just leave it at that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I figure that goes for almost everything I post up on here, so I appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts on this kind of stuff :thumbs up:
 
Tadpui said:
Listening to the remix version...Solid low end, and the percussion works without taking over. The vocal is a little dry for my taste, could use at least a tiny bit of reverb or something to make it sit a bit. This is pretty damn solid though, good arrangement, overall a great song. I love the atmosphere, something that I always tend to like in your stuff.

In listening to the original, I think I like the saturation on the vocals better than the remix.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot Tadpui. Yeah, I'm not sure there's any reverb at all on the main vocal in the verses. I seem to remember liking how the dry saturation gave an interesting sound, but maybe just a touch needed for glue.

Glad it worked overall for you and thanks for listening man :)

kcearl said:
When I hear Rob and more accomplished mixers (sorry Rob)
Click to expand...

Nay bother kc. I'm not very technically accomplished in playing, singing or mixing - I just tend to fiddle around until I reproduce what I hear in my head as best as I can on all three counts :D

I guess we all work to the same basic template when mixing stuff - if I can get that basic template sorted on one mix where everything balances out and sounds full, I reckon I could reproduce it from there on in. I'm getting there slowly.

I've just done a quick update on the original mix and replaced the original file. Not to turn this thread into a mix thread on the original, but so that the two mixes are slightly more comparable in terms of volume...and maybe quality. Still more to do on it mind...
 
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