Is it possible to spread one vocal for chorus/hook

[grimtraveller]

Fur fox ache !

Ha ha ha, Foxy, you're priceless ! You could get into an argument with midnight or your shower !

 

[Terra]

Ha ha ha, Foxy, you're priceless ! You could get into an argument with midnight or your shower !

+1 haha

no offense, of course.

 

[Farview]

Also. Humans are visual creatures ( science fact ) we appreciate more information in front of our eyes.

So please, tell us all what good sound looks like.

*Plus the whole thing is not pending on me owning a good doubler in the first place.

If you have a stereo pitch shifter, you would use that. Probably a stereo version of the mono pitch shifter you are using on the other two clone tracks... Just set the left and right shift and the pre-delay the same as you would the two mono instances.

Plus, you can have multiple vocal tracks sent to that same effects buss instead of creating two extra tracks for every vocal performance.

I suppose there is the possiblility that you aren't normally working on projects with 50+ tracks like I am. Hell, the song I'm mixing today has 66 tracks of music and 39 tracks of vocals. If I started processing things like you are suggesting, the computer would come to a grinding halt very quickly. Even though my computer was specifically built for doing this, it will still start to choke around 150 tracks. If I was individually processing 2/3's of them, I wouldn't even get that far.

 

[grimtraveller]

So please, tell us all what good sound looks like.

Hell, the song I'm mixing today has 66 tracks of music and 39 tracks of vocals.

Song ! Most LPs in the 60s (and they usually contained 12~14 songs) and possibly much of the 70s didn't contain that !

That's progress.

 

[Farview]

Song ! Most LPs in the 60s (and they usually contained 12~14 songs) and possibly much of the 70s didn't contain that !

That's progress.

WEll, funny you should mention that. The type of stuff I'm doing is old school R&B. Think Curtis Mayfield and Isaac Hayes. The producer I'm working with was Curtis' producer back in the 70's. The biggest difference between what we are doing now and what they did then boils down to not having to have 4 or 5 slave tapes with nothing but vocals having to be mixed down to stereo and brought back to a master tape...and the undo button.

There are more instrument tracks because a lot of the instruments are virtual or keys instead of actual orchestras that you would capture with a few mics. But they were doing the same stuff that we all did on our 4-track to get more tracks, they were just doing it with a couple 2 inch machines instead.

 

[CFox]

So please, tell us all what good sound looks like.

Nice try but we are discussing workflow

If you have a stereo pitch shifter, you would use that. Probably a stereo version of the mono pitch shifter you are using on the other two clone tracks... Just set the left and right shift and the pre-delay the same as you would the two mono instances.

You don't have the creative options, you cant automate the vol and pan with an envelope etc.

Plus, you can have multiple vocal tracks sent to that same effects buss instead of creating two extra tracks for every vocal performance.

How many MVox, do you want to be sending ? If you are talking about sound instances then you can drop and sections at your convenience, extending or reducing clip size to suit the mix ( items can be stacked vertically in a single track in Reaper if you really want to be sending overlapping vox ). I thought the idea with this technique was for vocal instances. I wouldnt want to send the Bvox there as I would want different panning and possible processing - If I wanted to send that many BV's to the doubling technique at all.

I suppose there is the possiblility that you aren't normally working on projects with 50+ tracks like I am. Hell, the song I'm mixing today has 66 tracks of music and 39 tracks of vocals. If I started processing things like you are suggesting, the computer would come to a grinding halt very quickly. Even though my computer was specifically built for doing this, it will still start to choke around 150 tracks. If I was individually processing 2/3's of them, I wouldn't even get that far.

You are correct, myself and most others in this thread are not mixing 50+ tracks as this is homerecording dot com. Anyway would you Ricky Martinise 39 tracks of vocals ? That is all I recommend this tecnique for. I do use busses, sends and receives in Reaper. Very easy, one track acts a folder ( processing every other track that is dragged into it ( with the usual pre or post fader and fx options you find anywhere) , or/and you can drag an 'out' into another tracks 'ins' ) the routing in Reaper is incredible.

 

[Farview]

You don't have the creative options, you cant automate the vol and pan with an envelope etc.

True, but realistically, how much shifting of the steo spread are you going to want to do on a main vocal?

How many MVox, do you want to be sending ? If you are talking about sound instances then you can drop and sections at your convenience, extending or reducing clip size to suit the mix ( items can be stacked vertically in a single track in Reaper if you really want to be sending overlapping vox ). I thought the idea with this technique was for vocal instances. I wouldnt want to send the Bvox there as I would want different panning and possible processing - If I wanted to send that many BV's to the doubling technique at all.

I'll have up to 8 main vocal tracks. Sometimes 2 main vocalists, loud stuff, quiet stuff, effected track (phone voice, etc...) Why wouldn't you want to use your technique with reverbs or other time based effects? Wouldn't you have more control over the panning and volume curves?

You are correct, myself and most others in this thread are not mixing 50+ tracks as this is homerecording dot com. Anyway would you Ricky Martinise 39 tracks of vocals ? That is all I recommend this tecnique for.

And all I'm saying is that your recommendation is inefficient. Because this is home recording dot com, many of the people here don't have the super computer that I have that could easily handle that sort of thing on a sub-48 track mix. A lot of people here are using virtual instruments that tax their, sometimes inadequate, system.


BTW, I checked, "Livin' La Vida Loca" was done on 2-inch. I doubt they wasted 3 tape tracks, or even three mixer channels, and two Eventides to get that effect. They probably used one Eventide on an effects send...like I suggested.

 

[CFox]

True, but realistically, how much shifting of the steo spread are you going to want to do on a main vocal?

Dunno ( shrug ) but I love control. ....and I like to see it there even if I squash zoom the track, I can still see at a glance where I am at. Because of other commitments I have to constantly open and close various sessions and I just like to minimise the relearning each time I open. My real job is mentally taxing, so I like to mix to relax and have fun. Check out Reaper, you will have an epiphany of biblical proportions.

I'll have up to 8 main vocal tracks. Sometimes 2 main vocalists, loud stuff, quiet stuff, effected track (phone voice, etc...) Why wouldn't you want to use your technique with reverbs or other time based effects? Wouldn't you have more control over the panning and volume curves?

You are right, sorry, was tired at the time. I do make my own delays with passages - however I copy a file image, not a unique copy, pan, apply inserts then freeze track if necessary, no resources are tied up other than RAM and we all got RAM.

And all I'm saying is that your recommendation is inefficient. Because this is home recording dot com, many of the people here don't have the super computer that I have that could easily handle that sort of thing on a sub-48 track mix. A lot of people here are using virtual instruments that tax their, sometimes inadequate, system.

Insufficient maybe ? I said I still use sends. Inefficient ? No, it gives more control. I explained, that you once you get it how you want, you freeze the track - no more processing involved. I am sure people are already freezing tracks as juicy new plugins are resource monsters. Freezing takes up less resources than having to set up a new chorus send each time you want to tweak your chorusing slightly..

BTW, I checked, "Livin' La Vida Loca" was done on 2-inch. I doubt they wasted 3 tape tracks, or even three mixer channels, and two Eventides to get that effect. They probably used one Eventide on an effects send...like I suggested.

You are probably right, you also may be wrong. I was repeating the informal descriptive phrase for the digital technique that had been introduced into the topic just as a convenient reference.

 

[Farview]

My real job is mentally taxing, so I like to mix to relax and have fun. Check out Reaper, you will have an epiphany of biblical proportions.

My real job is recording and mixing. I use reaper for remote recording. There is nothing in reaper that nuendo doesn't have.

You are right, sorry, was tired at the time. I do make my own delays with passages - however I copy a file image, not a unique copy, pan, apply inserts then freeze track if necessary, no resources are tied up other than RAM and we all got RAM.

Insufficient maybe ? I said I still use sends. Inefficient ? No, it gives more control. I explained, that you once you get it how you want, you freeze the track - no more processing involved. I am sure people are already freezing tracks as juicy new plugins are resource monsters. Freezing takes up less resources than having to set up a new chorus send each time you want to tweak your chorusing slightly..

If you freeze the tracks, you are creating another file that needs to be read off the hard drive. If you decide to rearrange the song, you have to unfreeze all the tracks to move everything around. But again, I'm doing stuff that will have multiple versions (club mix, trance mix, radio mix, etc...), so freezing and unfreezing (especially as many tracks as I have) is cumbersome and a waste of time.

You are probably right, you also may be wrong.

I am right. I asked Charles Dye. (he mixed the song)

 

[CFox]

My real job is recording and mixing. I use reaper for remote recording. There is nothing in reaper that nuendo doesn't have.

Great, so you know how good Reaper is and how it only costs $40 ( or $240 for commercial ) and is a 5 mb download.

If you freeze the tracks, you are creating another file that needs to be read off the hard drive. If you decide to rearrange the song, you have to unfreeze all the tracks to move everything around. But again, I'm doing stuff that will have multiple versions (club mix, trance mix, radio mix, etc...), so freezing and unfreezing (especially as many tracks as I have) is cumbersome and a waste of time.

I would rather freeze and unfreeze tracks than watch my processor seize up. Freezing on Adobe took years, on Reaper it seems to be quick. Once again this is HR and most of us arent mixing what you are mixing*. I dont have the super computer ( although I suspect my soon to be new 3.0 quadcore would cope ) or the possibly the skills to mix that many tracks without it sounding like a cacophony.

* you will not be using any sub mixes in your dance tracks ? And quite possibly replacing most sounds anyway ? Also. Arent we meant to work on getting the right note in the right place before we start mixing ?

I am right. I asked Charles Dye. (he mixed the song)

Why did your initial post re RM express uncertainty then ? Or did you clarify it, just now ? If so, that is very cool. It would be great if you could post a list of top guns you have fraternized or worked with. I am impressed. Have you encountered Butch Vig, or CLA or Puig ?

 

[Farview]

Why did your initial post re RM express uncertainty then ? Or did you just ask him then ?

I asked him yesterday. I didn't realize that I knew the person who mixed the song until I looked it up.

If so, that is very cool. I think you need to post a list of top guns you have fraternized or worked with. I am impressed. Have you encountered Butch Vig, or CLA or Puig ?

I've been doing this professionally for over 15 years. Before that I was a touring musician for over 10 years. It would probably be easier to list the people I don't know.