Is it possible to spread one vocal for chorus/hook

B

BLP

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I have 1 vocal I want to try to use for a hook/chorus but I can't get it to be wide and separate itself from verse much does anybody got any tips?

I've tried duplicating it and panning both but didn't sound how I wanted it too.
I've tried to use the CLASSIC CHORUS plugin in and it sounds robotic most of time.
I've tried STEREO EXPANDER in Adobe Adobe Audition also


Anybody got any tips?
 
Record it again and pan one hard left and the other hard right while suing some simple delays and reverbs.

You can also try cloning the track and then moving it up out back a few secs but you must be aware of phasing issues when doing this.
For best results, you need to record 2 takes with one paned opposite of the other and with the use of special delays and reverbs.

FYI, if your chorus make sthe voice soudn robotic, then your settings are all wrong for the chorus. Chorus uses phaseing. Do not use presets. Learn what each setting does and use your ears to tweak the plugins.
 
In order to pan one record take you would need a plug-in for that...(sony multi-tap delay, waves doubler are just 2 examples of that...waves double being the best one) Like audio mastering said, though, you're best bet is to probably record two takes and pan one left and right (about 45 or 50% left/right, not 100% as this will make the vocal sound very detached from the rest of the song and it will sound like a nightmare when played back on some audio devices). Not only will this get you the sound you're looking for, but, the hook or chorus or whatever you want to call it generally should have more presence than the verse, depending on the genre and type of song of course, so that's another reason to do two takes and pan one left and one right. At the same time, however, sometimes you might want to do a background take behind your main vocal and pan that for added emphasis and effect. In this case, it would be pointless to do two takes of that as you probably wouldn't be able to duplicate that background emphasis or ad-lib vocals again...so the plug in would come in handy to pan the single record take...I can try sending you the plugin if you'd like, I believe I have it in rtas as well as vst and you could give it a try perhaps? Just a thought.
 
BLP said:
I have 1 vocal I want to try to use for a hook/chorus but I can't get it to be wide and separate itself from verse much
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I'm not technical at all and some terms fox me but I haven't a clue what this means. I am however, intrigued. What exactly do you mean and what is it you're trying to do ?
 
grimtraveller said:
I'm not technical at all and some terms fox me but I haven't a clue what this means. I am however, intrigued. What exactly do you mean and what is it you're trying to do ?
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I was recording a hip hop song for someone, and they only recorded 1 main vocal on the hook with some adlibbing . I was trying to make the 1 vocal hook wider and more spread out and noticeable then the verses

I took the CLASSIC CHORUS and used the overdub preset then moved some settings around till it sounded good with some compression and echo before it


it seems to do what I was looking for
 
Well I can make a good hook with multiple vocals and panning but I was attempting the challenge of taking one vocal and making a hip hop hook/chorus
 
So what about making a unique copy of the section you want, giving it its own new track and then making another unique copy and giving it its own new track ?

You can then pan and process how you like and nudge one of the copies a bit behind in time. If you pan both copies to 60-70 % and then buss them off to separate effects ( panned at 100%) you will get a very wide image. For the effects you could try light phasing, flanging, chorus, doesnt matter a great deal as all are delay based with modulation.

If you download Kore 2 player from Native Instruments ( which is totally FREE ) and take the time to play with it, you will find it has a pretty good ensemble ( chorus ) effect.

Its also bundled as part of their other totally free promotion Komplete Players

These are not just free downloads, they are totally free.
 
BLP said:
Well I can make a good hook with multiple vocals and panning but I was attempting the challenge of taking one vocal and making a hip hop hook/chorus
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Does it it repeat at any point? If so, duplicate it, split the duplicate where it repeats and swap the resulting 2 parts.
 
A slightly different take on the previous thread is copy the section you want spread to a seperate track and use a stero delay that has the ability to set seperate delay times for the left and right channels.
Set the left one to like...13 ms and the the right one to like 17 ms as a starting point and work with the wet/dry percentages and delay times.You want most the signal effected.
The longer delays become annoying...
 
You could also try the so called 'Ricki Martin' technique, where you copy the vocal twice to 2 seperate tracks, pitch shift one up by about 12cents, one down by 12 cents (100 cents is a semi tone, sorry if you know this) then delay one track by 10 mili seconds, the other by 20 ( you can play around with these amounts) then pan one left and one right and make the volume of these two tracks less than the original vocal. This should widen and fatten it up.
 
benage said:
You could also try the so called 'Ricki Martin' technique, where you copy the vocal twice to 2 seperate tracks, pitch shift one up by about 12cents, one down by 12 cents (100 cents is a semi tone, sorry if you know this) then delay one track by 10 mili seconds, the other by 20 ( you can play around with these amounts) then pan one left and one right and make the volume of these two tracks less than the original vocal. This should widen and fatten it up.
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That's what most 'doubler' and 'vocal widener' plugins do. You can do this with any dual pitch shift plugin without having to copy the track and do everything twice.

It works best as an effect send because then it will be blended with the dry vocal. It is also easy to automate the effect send to turn off during the verse and turn back on during the hook.
 
Farview said:
That's what most 'doubler' and 'vocal widener' plugins do. You can do this with any dual pitch shift plugin without having to copy the track and do everything twice.

It works best as an effect send because then it will be blended with the dry vocal. It is also easy to automate the effect send to turn off during the verse and turn back on during the hook.
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I just did in Reaper and it took a few seconds to set up, then I linked the faders and adjusted the panning and level to my taste.

What do you mean "by blended with the dry vocal" as distinct from the "Ricky Martin" trick ?
 
Farview said:
That's what most 'doubler' and 'vocal widener' plugins do. You can do this with any dual pitch shift plugin without having to copy the track and do everything twice.
.
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Oh right, I think I did hear somewhere a 'H3000'? does the same thing, wasn't really sure what equipment he has, maybe he said, can't be bothered re Reading it, but if he's got a 'doubler' yeah use that.
 
legionserial said:
Does it it repeat at any point? If so, duplicate it, split the duplicate where it repeats and swap the resulting 2 parts.
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That's what I was about to say. I'd think it unlikely that he sang the hook exactly once. Grab a couple copies of the hook from throughout and pair them up with each other.
 
CFox said:
I just did in Reaper and it took a few seconds to set up, then I linked the faders and adjusted the panning and level to my taste.

What do you mean "by blended with the dry vocal" as distinct from the "Ricky Martin" trick ?
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I'm not familiar with the Ricky Martin trick. The dual pitch shift spreader/doubler trick pre-dates Ricky Martins fame. It's been a preset in every Eventide product capable of doing it. The first one that was used for this sort of thing was the H949 which came out in the early 70's.

Anyway. If you just run the vocal through a pitch shifter set a few cents higher on one side and few cents lower on the other, you are not getting the original (supposedly in-tune) vocal. If you set up the effect on a send, like you would if you were using a hardware mixing board, you get the real vocal centered and the doubling effect with it. It ends up being bigger and stronger and it won't phase out if it is ever played in mono.
 
I think what I did has more control. I have the original, I have the copies on either side with alternate pitch shifting and linked faders if desired. By raising or lowering any of the faders I am controlling my wet dry mix. I can now run further effects and eq on all of them.

I dont see why software has to mimic hardware, thats just just how things were done back then, doesnt mean its the best way :p
 
CFox said:
I think what I did has more control. I have the original, I have the copies on either side with alternate pitch shifting and linked faders if desired. By raising or lowering any of the faders I am controlling my wet dry mix. I can now run further effects and eq on all of them.

I dont see why software has to mimic hardware, thats just just how things were done back then, doesnt mean its the best way :p
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It doesn't have to, it's just how I was trying to explain it.

You can do all of that with an aux send and a single vocal track. It takes less resources and leaves you with fewer tracks to manage. It's just a cleaner solution. You are, of course, free to do it any way you wish.
 
Farview said:
It doesn't have to, it's just how I was trying to explain it.

You can do all of that with an aux send and a single vocal track. It takes less resources and leaves you with fewer tracks to manage. It's just a cleaner solution. You are, of course, free to do it any way you wish.
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Yeah...but my suggestion has more control and more creative options with envelopes and panning*. :)
Also. Humans are visual creatures ( science fact ) we appreciate more information in front of our eyes. Easy to take in especially when resuming a session. On top of that, with modern processors and huge RAM as the norm, its no longer taxing, any dramas just freeze a track and did I mention Reaper ? After trying, logic, protools, cubase and adobe, I got to say this DAW is gold. It's just really intelligent design. :cool:

*Plus the whole thing is not pending on me owning a good doubler in the first place.
 
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