I need some advice for Over heads: SM81, AT4040, AE3000, C1000

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xiwiwix

New member
Hello. Which of these mics would be best as overheads for micing up a drum set. I work with metal bands and have been using SP C4's, and have been happy but I would like to upgrade. I'm looking for something with great bass response, great clarity, and with out being overly bright. Please include pro and cons:

Shure SM81LC
Audio Technica AT4040
Audio Technica AE3000
AKG C1000

Take Care
 
Keep in mind that the best choice for overheads may vary according to the drummer, the kit, the style, the song, the acoustic properties of the recording space, etc. -- i.e. - there is no "one size fits all" answer to your question. The only mic on your list I own is the SM81, which is a very good mic for OH and fits the description of the sound you are looking for (clear, good frequency response, not overly bright). I hear the russian-made oktava mk012 recommended frequently for a slightly "darker" sounding OH. Ditto for the Kel HM-1. You might want to also consider ribbon mics. They tend to have excellent bass response and a smoother top end than many condensers.
 
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I get great results with any of these:
Oktava MK012's
AKG C451 B 's
AT 4033's
CAD M179's
... and sometimes for a change, One nice LDC (MXL 77, Brauner Phantom C, SP T3)
 
I have to echo the AT LDCs. Great OH mics. I use AT4050s, but the 4040 and 4033 should be in the same ball park with the 4033 being a bit darker. I find the 4050 to be pretty neutral on most things. I personally prefer LDCs for OHs to SDCs. That's just me. YMMV yada yada...
 
If you want clear and accurate Mics for overheads and don"t want to spend a Lot of money you might want to check out the MSH-1/2 Mics which are hand made by "MShilarious" who is a frequent contributer of this board and he sells them for about $20 each and sound quite good.....

There are samples posted here I think:

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=205294



Cheers
 
From your list, (and most lists) definitely the 81's. Go to the Shure site and check out how many "big names" use them for OH's and high-hat.
 
4040 sounds clean and bigger and captures a kit better to me better than the pencil mics like an 81. your hi hats will sound meatier with a large d mic.
 
You guys are awesome! Thanks for all the input. I would still like more opinions.

Anyone else feel the same way about bigger mics compared to "pencil" mics?

Take Care
 
There is no right or wrong. More recordings have been made with small diaphragm condensers as overheads than large, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try both.

I use a matched pair of Josephson C42's. They are small diaphragm mics, and a little out of your price range - but they sound fantastic in my room.

I think the prevailing opinion is that really cheap large diaphragm mics sound a little better than really cheap small diaphragms, which is why people are recommending maybe to try large diaphragms. But I don't know that from experience, because in the case of the really cheap mics I have, the opposite is true.
 
wow I'm very intrigued by those MSH mics mentioned earlier, 20 bucks for 1!! And the sound samples sound really good. Would you guys reccommend these over, say, an AT3035? How does it compare?
 
WillyDavidK said:
wow I'm very intrigued by those MSH mics mentioned earlier, 20 bucks for 1!! And the sound samples sound really good. Would you guys reccommend these over, say, an AT3035? How does it compare?
Click to expand...

Any one?

Take Care
 
I kind of like my Rode NT5s, just an option. I know it's a cliche, but it's a warm mic, a little kinder on cheaper cymbals than some of the others I've used.
 
WillyDavidK said:
wow I'm very intrigued by those MSH mics mentioned earlier, 20 bucks for 1!! And the sound samples sound really good. Would you guys reccommend these over, say, an AT3035? How does it compare?
Click to expand...


Recognize what these are... the MSH are omni small diaphragm condensors. The 3035 is a large diaphragm cardioid condensor. So take a look at the big mic thread. The 3035 will have proximity effect, not as linear a response (less accurate), and likely lower self noise. The MSH will most likely be very flat, have higher self noise, and no proximity effect. On top of that, think about the polar patterns. An omni "hears" everything around it... so much much more room will come into play. With a cardioid, less so. These are just generalizations based on the design of the two mics and having never touched them myself. But, knowing a bit about in general terms what each design tends to be you can judge with some accuracy how the mics will behave. Not that one is inheriantly better than the other, they are just different and you will have to decide if the qualities described are what you would want. That said, $20 for a decent omni is a steal and they are very useful.
 
bubbagump said:
The 3035 will have proximity effect, not as linear a response (less accurate), and likely lower self noise. The MSH will most likely be very flat, have higher self noise, and no proximity effect. On top of that, think about the polar patterns. An omni "hears" everything around it... so much much more room will come into play. With a cardioid, less so.
Click to expand...

that's a good point. maybe mshilarious can tell us how the msh mics might perform in a typical home recording room.
 
TravisinFlorida said:
that's a good point. maybe mshilarious can tell us how the msh mics might perform in a typical home recording room.
Click to expand...

I think bubbagump's post is accurate. In a typical home recording room, self-noise is probably not a concern though, since the room is unlikely to be quieter.

I have an AT3060, but no experience using it or any other LDC as drum overheads. I reflexively reach for my KSM141s, which if you got the clams is a very nice overhead mic. The KSM also has switchable patterns without having to swap capsules. I used to use SM81s, but sold them.

I wouldn't say that my mic is an upgrade from a C4. Really it only has three advantages: it runs on low phantom, it's cheaper, and it's much prettier :D
 
TravisinFlorida said:
i've been meaning to ask, what were the room conditions like where the msh sound clips were recorded?
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Some of them, I don't know, customers sent them in. I would assume the piano was recorded in a good room, because grand pianos don't fit in small rooms ;) The guitar was recorded in my room, it's under construction, but it has some "treatment" (rigid fiberglass laying around :o ), plus it's 15 x 17 with 8'6" ceiling. The drums were recorded by MadAudio, his drum room is I'd guess about 14x14 with plenty-o-treatment. The harp I have no idea. Percussion was cominginsecond, I don't know his room, Accordion was MadAudio again, in his control room, which I think is 12x14 or so, not as heavily treated as the drum room.

There is also a violin clip by DavidK posted in the Clinic.
 
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