How to devide 11m x 5.7m space

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

in a square or rectangle, sound waves can bounce back and forth, standing waves can occur, the room will respond particularly to certain frequencies dependant on its length and width. But with irregular angled walls, reflections can dissipate. Like the stealth fighter plane is funny angles to reflect radar differently......

Using non parallel walls may offset modal resonances but they simply rearange them in non predictable fashion. Whereas, with rectangular boundarys, you can predict them to fairly accurate frequencies. The difficulty, cost, and loss of space using this technique may NOT be worth it in the long run. However, my disclaimer is in full force here.
fitZ

 

[pandamonk]

Using non parallel walls may offset modal resonances but they simply rearange them in non predictable fashion. Whereas, with rectangular boundarys, you can predict them to fairly accurate frequencies. The difficulty, cost, and loss of space using this technique may NOT be worth it in the long run. However, my disclaimer is in full force here.
fitZ

Why is it done in the top studios then? I don't doubt your reasons, i just don't really understand it(i understand what you've said, but i don't understand how/why it happens, and what you've based this on). I always want to learn more

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hi pandamonk. Because they have:

1. Space
2. Deep pockets.
3. A studio designer and or a studio with a reputation to maintain.
4. A clientel that needs to be impressed.
5. The owner doesn't have to build it HIMSELF.
6. Few limitations as a small home studio builder, especially HVAC.
7. An architect to address codes.
8. No reason not to.

I didn't say splaying walls didn't work. I simply gave the reasons why a room with the given dimensions would well be worth using as is.
fitZ

 

[gullfo]

Rick has it right - splayed walls typically make it much harder to compute modes and standing waves, and it can also impact the resale of your home (if you're building a studio in your home) because of the odd shaped rooms. from a designer (mine) perspective, you choose angled walls when you need to conserve space with the knowledge that it doesn't give you a pass on the treatments, so it generally means you'll have to find another place to put them - ceilings, odd corners, etc. and in some cases, the walls aren't purely boundary walls but a combination of treatments and boundaries (again understanding the limitations of the choices) - some designers use an "inside-out" wall technique that in the right application is pretty effective in isolation and mid-high frequency room treatment.

 

[pandamonk]

Hi pandamonk. Because they have:

1. Space
2. Deep pockets.
3. A studio designer and or a studio with a reputation to maintain.
4. A clientel that needs to be impressed.
5. The owner doesn't have to build it HIMSELF.
6. Few limitations as a small home studio builder, especially HVAC.
7. An architect to address codes.
8. No reason not to.

I didn't say splaying walls didn't work. I simply gave the reasons why a room with the given dimensions would well be worth using as is.
fitZ

Can't splayed walls also be used to direct sound, ie to the back of the room where it'll be absorbed in my suggestion?

 

[gullfo]

absolutely. one part of creating a RFZ is to use angled walls to avoid a purely absorptive solution (such as a LEDE). and in cases where conserving floor space is important (or more important than other choices) then using splayed boundary walls can work quite well.

 

[Squiksilvery]

Pandamonk,

Really appreciate the design, I was just thinking I'd prefer a larger live room and smaller control room... if possible. Sorry to an arse!

 

[pandamonk]

Pandamonk,

Really appreciate the design, I was just thinking I'd prefer a larger live room and smaller control room... if possible. Sorry to be an arse!

Bad idea. I'd probably suggest increasing the size of the control room than decreasing.

Smaller rooms are pretty bad acoustically. The control room is the most important room, imo, so it's important to have it as large as you can.

The live room is roughly 4.5-5m(15'-17') x 3.5-4m(11'-14'). That alone is much bigger than my whole 4 room studio. If you've got the amps and vocalists in the booth, then the live room won't be used for much more than drums, for recording. That's huge imo(my live room is just over 7'x6')! Ok, you might want to use it for practicing, but it should be large enough even for this.

 

[gullfo]

what is the ceiling height of the space?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Can't splayed walls also be used to direct sound, ie to the back of the room where it'll be absorbed in my suggestion?

Absolutely. In fact, that is precisely the design goal in most PRO control rooms(at least from what I've seen...but then you have George Massenburgs room! Try that one in a small room). However, how much of the criteria I mentioned do you have? Mostly, for me it would be SPACE. My control room is 12'x 18', and I wouldn't use one square inch to splay walls. I LIKE the space. And in my opinion, studio designers would NOT splay walls unless they had ample space left once the splayed walls were in place. But, again, my disclaimer speaks for itself.
fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Dang. Everytime I read the latest reply, for some reason it doesn't show it till "I" reply, and when I post it, all of a sudden there are three or four other replys before mine that I didn't see. Hence my same answers as guillfo. Hmmmm, have to check into that.

 

[Squiksilvery]

what is the ceiling height of the space?

8ft to the ceiling joists, but could be left open into the roof space which would be approx 12ft at the top (i.e. a 4ft(approx) slanted roof)

But deviding the rooms up right to the peak of the roof would be much more difficult than just insulating at ceiling level, right across

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

But deviding the rooms up right to the peak of the roof would be much more difficult than just insulating at ceiling level, right across

Perhaps, but having that height AND a slanted ceiling is SOOOOOOOOO nice. However, it would depend on how you decide to cut this up,(which may or may not mean cutting the ceiling joists as well) not to mention your final solution for decoupling drywall assemblies from each other AND if you intend on splaying walls...your HVAC ducting, and how you intend on constructing your ceiling framing support...ie..hanging within each rooms boundarys OR supporting the joists on the walls...AND if you are using DOUBLE walls, RC or staggered stud...and, well...your building skills, budget etc etc...you get the idea.
fitZ

 

[Squiksilvery]

Fitz, yes, you are right - budget is an issue! and if I compromised at some part of the build I'm going to regret it later... and so big bucks would be required.

I could end up spending thousands... not that I even have hundreds!

I'm now thinking, just build a shit hot mix room... and do the recording elsewhere. I've done a few live recordings and mixed it at home later... infact I did the post-prod for this in my conservatory: www.edbol.co.uk/wilcox - far from ideal.

The existing converted garage space is 3 x 5.7m (externally) - an open plan room for mixing with enough room for a bit of small scale recording... realistic?

 

[gullfo]

Hence my same answers as guillfo. Hmmmm, have to check into that.

it's my patented FitZ Mind Reader® product that allows me (and others) to peer into your thoughts and write them down before you do... you're getting sleepy, very sleepy...

on the room subject - you could build a two dividing walls floor-to-ceiling and then have the tall ceiling for the live room, build a lower symmetrical ceiling for the control room, and use the tall ceiling (second wall on side of CR) in the iso booth for a deep absorber. this minimizes construction a bit and gives you tall ceilings where it will most help and avoid asymmetry in the CR...

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

it's my patented FitZ Mind Reader® product

I wonder if government has this as well

that allows me (and others) to peer into your thoughts

gullfo, you're wasting your time.Ain't much there anymore except weeds Of course, the government would claim its something else By the way, did you read about the fucking "thought crime" bill the Senate passed. Unfuckingbelievable what these stinking cockroachs are trying to pass into law. If this passes, look out. You can be arrested and charged with "thinking" crimes.
Its called the "Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007". I can't believe these bastards had the audacity to perpetrate this against the American people. They're totally out of control.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955

404 out of 410 Senators voted "yea" for this bill I sent a nasty email to the author of this bill three months ago. Should this bill pass the House, an email like I sent could be used against me as trying to "coerce the government", which is only one aspect of this piece of shit legislation. And IF it does pass....thats it for me. I'm outta here. This country is becoming a fascist police state now. Shades of Orwell Anyway, this is just the tip of the iceberg. If the average american pulled their head out of their ass long enough to take a REAL look at whats going on here, there might be a chance to save this country.

But noooooooooooo.. MOST of the population of this country are too busy watching the goddamned Amerikan Idol crap or following Paris Hiltons/Brittney Spearhead soap opera of a life.
They won't have a clue what hit them when Bush declares Marshal Law and starts rounding up dissenters and stuffing them into the Homeland Security mass detention centers that have been built. Over 800 of them. The one in Alaska will hold TWO MILLION people. Don't believe me? Do a search on Youtube. If the gov hasn't taken them off already. Hundreds of websites on all
types of subjects are being taken down daily. And even books are being confiscated from librarys, thrift stores and ebay. I personally witnessed a person in a thrift store using a scanner/transmitter to read the barcodes on the hundreds of books there. She had a stack of over 50 books in her basket. I asked her if she was scanning to sell on ebay. At first, she wouldn't say a word but after i persisted in asking questions..she finally said.."something like that". With a smirk. I waited outside for her to come out to her car. Sure enough She was driving a dark blue SUV, with Federal Gov license plates. I even followed her to a motel. I FUCKING HATE THIS SHIT.

Ever heard of Dark Aliance? How bout "The Law that Never Was? How about "The Federal Mafia"? Thats only a few of thousands of books the governemnt wants removed from public view. Don't ask me why, or I'd go on
for hours. I've reserched the corruption in this country for four years. I can now say with complete authority, this government is corrupt from top to bottom.
FOR YOU STINKING GOVERNMENT SHILLS AND MINONS WHO READ THIS......
(and they do)....

KISS MY FUCKING ASS!!!

Now, excuse my rant. Once I get started...well, its hard to stop
Anyway, later guys.
fitZ

PS. If you knew what I know now...you'd shit. Do a search on..

IRS...Rossotti...AMS...Promis...Etchelon... that will provide you enough info to fill the rest of your free time for life....and if its not...

Try Dillon Reid/Catherine Austin Fitts...or Bill Benton...or From the Wilderness/Michael Ruppert..or if you REALLY want to dig

Try Leo Wanta.. Cristopher Story...if that one don't get you, NOTHING will...your just plain brain dead if it doesn't provoke something.

Here is the latest...but go back to the June 07 archives.. Talk about a mind blower.
http://www.worldreports.org/news/127_the_wanta_plans_deals_will_be_100_transparent
fitZ
PS again...if you run out of stuff to read, give me a holla. This is only the tip of the iceberg.

crap...try the Barrett Report...or Dumbingdown...or United Fruit Company...or "PUG" or the Reece/Cox Report...or Dark Aliance...or....well, I'll stop there...shit...someones at my door EEEEEEK!!!

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hey gullfo or any of you guys for that matter...you might be interested in this. Here is a link to MY site. Just got it up and running...but I have a host server where you might want to help or store your CAD stuff. I haven't loaded my library of STUDIO drawing files yet...maybe tonight. Anyway, I'm going to make a STICKY of all kinds of studio design stuff there that we can link to. If your interested, give me a holla.

http://stingrayproductions.net/modules.php?name=Forums
fitZ

 

[gullfo]

FitZ - tried to register but it returned me to the are you 13 and older page...

fwiw, i've worked around various bits of the US Army and government agencies so none of this surprises me... people assume Hollywood is advanced in their portrayal of insidious government actions but are really way behind...

wrt to the topic - i'd still stick with the 2 high walls approach to divide and conquer...

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

FitZ - tried to register but it returned me to the are you 13 and older page...

Sorry bout that gullfo. I just got this running and haven't even had time to do admin stuff. But I will sometime tonight. I'll pm you when its fixed.

wrt to the topic

Sorry for the rant. Better left to the cave, although most people there just yawn. To bad most american citizens are too blind to see whats happening before their very eyes.
fitZ