How important is it to record in a soundproofish room?

S

sotorious

New member
It seems like my vocals are missing aline of some sort i dont know how to explain it. I know the mic i have is pretty decent. I have made songs with a wal-mart mic that sound amazing. I just cant seem to do the same with this, and i def have better equipment.


I am concerned about some options though on the mic it self (which is an AT4040) should i keep it at -10db? also there is a low cut switch on the mic I was wondering what i should keep that on.

Also interface (Focusrite saffie 6 usb)

i think one of the buttons next to the gain button do the same thing as the -10db boos on the mic.

I am getting frustrated as a lot of things dont work the same as they do in adobe audition. what i really mean by that is some of the enhancing plug ins that worked with cool edit to adobe, that i was familiar with.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
 
it's probably important to identify the difference between sound proofing and sound dampening..


soundProofing isn't important unless you hear unwanted noise on your recording..such as traffic, people talking, planes,,etc etc...


sound deadening may be important if your recording sounds like it's in a big room or hall,,,or sounds really echoey (think tiled bathroom)
it can also be an issue if you're experiencing buildups of certain frequencies due to reflective surfaces,,parallel walls etc.


maybe the best thing you can do is try placing the mic in different areas of the room......avoiding corners etc?

have a browse through the studio building forum and see what people are doing.
there are plenty of diagrams and things that might help you.




as far as the -10db thing goes...that's a pad.
it's especially useful if you have the preamp gain very low, and you're recording is still peaking. say for example, you're closing miking a snare or trumpet.

the low cut probably isn't worth worrying about. Try it either way to observe the difference, but remember,
if you leave it off, you can always cut low freq later in software.
if you leave it on, you can't ever add those lows back in again.

hope that helps,and good luck.
 
Steenamaroo said:
it's probably important to identify the difference between sound proofing and sound dampening..


soundProofing isn't important unless you hear unwanted noise on your recording..such as traffic, people talking, planes,,etc etc...


sound deadening may be important if your recording sounds like it's in a big room or hall,,,or sounds really echoey (think tiled bathroom)
it can also be an issue if you're experiencing buildups of certain frequencies due to reflective surfaces,,parallel walls etc.


maybe the best thing you can do is try placing the mic in different areas of the room......avoiding corners etc?

have a browse through the studio building forum and see what people are doing.
there are plenty of diagrams and things that might help you.




as far as the -10db thing goes...that's a pad.
it's especially useful if you have the preamp gain very low, and you're recording is still peaking. say for example, you're closing miking a snare or trumpet.

the low cut probably isn't worth worrying about. Try it either way to observe the difference, but remember,
if you leave it off, you can always cut low freq later in software.
if you leave it on, you can't ever add those lows back in again.

hope that helps,and good luck.
Click to expand...


Ill check that section out. Also for the low cutt there is a line the comes from the down position then comes straight is that the off position? the other line is just a vertical line.
 
set the switch one way shows a flat line, and set it the other way shows a slant? is that right?

if so, the flat line is no low cut.
 
sotorious said:
..How important is it to record in a soundproofish room?
Click to expand...
Quite important. Look up 'Haas Delays or Haas effect'. These are delays so short in time that the ear perceives them as part of the source sound. They spread and smear the original. (For good effect -when they are intended.)Small room reflections are in this range so IMHO, you want to control them and knock their level down at least somewhat.
Then on top of that there are the background noises, room resonances that otherwise constantly add their color stamp'.

I am concerned about some options though on the mic it self (which is an AT4040) should i keep it at -10db? also there is a low cut switch on the mic I was wondering what i should keep that on.
Click to expand...
Use the pre amp gain to reduce you're level first (-18 or so for your average/sustained parts on your recording app meter), pre amp pad next if needed. The mic pad ('-10') protects overload at the mic's electronics but degrades the mic's signal to noise. 'Off unless you're close micing very loud stuff. (A clue would be 'pre amp and pad down, levels below clipping on the record meter, but still clipped wave forms.. would tend to say the mic is clipping, not somewhere else.
Very often we want some low cut on a lot of sources, at some point in the chain. Question becomes 'might the mic's cut be too much (higher freq than needed/wanted?) I've been doing a 50Hz cut for example at my pre for vocals in lue of the 80 or higher on the mic.

Once the basics are cleared up, dial in the tones. :drunk:
 
See alot of this talk is confusing to me as i am trying to learn everything and there is just to much to learn. I wish i can have a sit down and ask questions as they come up.

exactly what do you mean by this

Once the basics are cleared up, dial in the tones.

"dial in the tones"
 
sotorious said:
See alot of this talk is confusing to me as i am trying to learn everything and there is just to much to learn. I wish i can have a sit down and ask questions as they come up.

exactly what do you mean by this

Once the basics are cleared up, dial in the tones.

"dial in the tones"
Click to expand...

It looked like there was mix of basic fundamentals to get out of the way, then that leaves you clearer to move on to finer things, like experimenting with the different tones of mic position, 'close' = drier, larger, more lows, back a ways = lighter tone and low end, more ambient feel, etc. 'Dialing in', not necessarily with 'knobs'.
You didn't say but perhaps your old mic was one you worked closer, had a tighter pattern, and or a 'scooped/presence peak (i.e, wasn't as accurate/true, but more forgiving'.. but more importantly, if it worked better.. so be it. :)
 
-10dB is a pad, you want it off for most things. Otherwise you increase the noise floor by decreasing the input signal strength. Which means you want it away from the -10dB. It's built in attenuation. If the signal to your recording device is too strong and your preamp gain already at minimum you'll want to use it. Otherwise don't.

low cut is to help solve feedback and other issues. If you don't have those issues you want it off as well. So set it to the flat line. The other settings removes low frequencies at the mic. Which generally helps to keep the 60Hz power thing from contributing to feedback.

Room is a significant portion of the sound you record. If it's not a very windy or wet day, you might step outside and record from both mics and notice the difference there. It could just be that you're used to hearing everything in stereo and listening to mono tracks is proving to be annoying. It could be that you're used to hearing reverb and compression and your tracks lacking those effects is troubling you. Or you could be using a preamp like an Art Tube MP and it sucks more than your walmart mic.
 
Shadow_7 said:
-10dB is a pad, you want it off for most things. Otherwise you increase the noise floor by decreasing the input signal strength. Which means you want it away from the -10dB. It's built in attenuation. If the signal to your recording device is too strong and your preamp gain already at minimum you'll want to use it. Otherwise don't.

low cut is to help solve feedback and other issues. If you don't have those issues you want it off as well. So set it to the flat line. The other settings removes low frequencies at the mic. Which generally helps to keep the 60Hz power thing from contributing to feedback.

Room is a significant portion of the sound you record. If it's not a very windy or wet day, you might step outside and record from both mics and notice the difference there. It could just be that you're used to hearing everything in stereo and listening to mono tracks is proving to be annoying. It could be that you're used to hearing reverb and compression and your tracks lacking those effects is troubling you. Or you could be using a preamp like an Art Tube MP and it sucks more than your walmart mic.
Click to expand...

Well what i am using is the Focusrite Saffire 6 USB.
 
sotorious said:
Well what i am using is the Focusrite Saffire 6 USB.
Click to expand...

http://www.focusrite.com/products/saffire/saffire_6_usb

That looks to be a decent interface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SEQyru1trY


You'll probably want the Inst, Pad, and Mono buttons OFF, and the P48 button ON for AT4040 the AT4040. Is AT4040 the AT4040 new? Or some ebay item or something. It should be a pretty decent mic. I had an AT4033a with an Art Tube MP when I first started out. The difference between an Art Tube MP and a DMP3 is vast. Your interface should be on par with the DMP3. So I'm not exactly sure what you're not liking about your tracks. The AT4040 is by no means ruler flat in terms of responsiveness so it might not be the mic for you, but it should be a good mic.

It could be and likely is that the USB interface is not supplying the full 48v phantom power. It could also be that you're singing into the back side of the mic. The pad and cut off switches are on the back side normally. Although the 4033a I had was a wide enough cardioid that it didn't really matter (much) if you had it backwards. And it was hard to tell since the shockmount I had covered up the logos and such.

You might try a different USB cable. I've had issues related to that with my Mobile Pre. It doesn't take much to make tech do odd things.

As far as the room, if it's a bad one it will affect what gets recorded. Parallel walls, square dimensions, lots of reflective surfaces and such are for the most part undesirable. Low frequencies build up in corners and other things. Moving the mic or the source six inches can make a pretty big difference in a lot of bad rooms. You probably don't want to be singing directly at any wall or corner. That'll create standing waves and diminish the resulting sound even without a mic in the mix. Off center and off angle should yield noticeably better results IMO. Basically stand in the center, face a corner, then take a step or two to one side and sing / record from there. See if that yields better results. It'll have to bounce off of more than one wall to return to the mic in that location / angle. Or I could be wrong.
 
Shadow_7 said:
http://www.focusrite.com/products/saffire/saffire_6_usb

That looks to be a decent interface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SEQyru1trY


You'll probably want the Inst, Pad, and Mono buttons OFF, and the P48 button ON for AT4040 the AT4040. Is AT4040 the AT4040 new? Or some ebay item or something. It should be a pretty decent mic. I had an AT4033a with an Art Tube MP when I first started out. The difference between an Art Tube MP and a DMP3 is vast. Your interface should be on par with the DMP3. So I'm not exactly sure what you're not liking about your tracks. The AT4040 is by no means ruler flat in terms of responsiveness so it might not be the mic for you, but it should be a good mic.

It could be and likely is that the USB interface is not supplying the full 48v phantom power. It could also be that you're singing into the back side of the mic. The pad and cut off switches are on the back side normally. Although the 4033a I had was a wide enough cardioid that it didn't really matter (much) if you had it backwards. And it was hard to tell since the shockmount I had covered up the logos and such.

You might try a different USB cable. I've had issues related to that with my Mobile Pre. It doesn't take much to make tech do odd things.

As far as the room, if it's a bad one it will affect what gets recorded. Parallel walls, square dimensions, lots of reflective surfaces and such are for the most part undesirable. Low frequencies build up in corners and other things. Moving the mic or the source six inches can make a pretty big difference in a lot of bad rooms. You probably don't want to be singing directly at any wall or corner. That'll create standing waves and diminish the resulting sound even without a mic in the mix. Off center and off angle should yield noticeably better results IMO. Basically stand in the center, face a corner, then take a step or two to one side and sing / record from there. See if that yields better results. It'll have to bounce off of more than one wall to return to the mic in that location / angle. Or I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

Everything brand new. As of the beginning i did have the mic backwards. They i corrected that but ive always had the inst button on as it seemed to be louder in general. Also where is the mono button. I have never saw one on here. Exactly what does the inst button do? I think its a combination of a bad room and me just not having the right settings on my interface.

Also if i was to go with a none mobile interface what would you recommend?


EDIT: i found the mono button it is under the mixer knob. That one was already turned off.
 
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sotorious said:
Everything brand new. As of the beginning i did have the mic backwards. They i corrected that but ive always had the inst button on as it seemed to be louder in general. Also where is the mono button. I have never saw one on here. Exactly what does the inst button do? I think its a combination of a bad room and me just not having the right settings on my interface.

Also if i was to go with a none mobile interface what would you recommend?


EDIT: i found the mono button it is under the mixer knob. That one was already turned off.
Click to expand...

The Instr. button (I would assume) makes it Hi-Z. i.e. input impedance in the MHz, versus kHz. For when you use it as an input for an electric guitar or electric bass guitar. Normally a mic preamp is in the 1k to 3k impedance range. Hi-Z make it's 1,000 time higher. Or whatever the technical terms are. I don't play an instrument like that so I've never had a need to use it. Just be aware of it, since it is a common way to use such devices and sometimes the DEFAULT configuration. Some preamps have variable impedance as it does affect the EQ attributes of the mic, not just the levels.

I like my Korg MR-1000. Although I question whether I can get like results on something a lot cheaper. Which might be a way to free up some capital. Sell it, replace it with something half the price. It's a rugged little unit, it seems to take the 100F+ Texas days and keeps on chugging. Battery life is kind of impressive once you take the phantom power burden off unit. But a H4n or R09 or other unit has basically the same functionality, sometimes more (i.e. multi-tracking and soundcard abilities).

There's a sapphire pro 26 or something that sounds pretty impressive on some of gearwire.com 's stuff. I've kind of lusted after an echo Layla 3G for a while, but I don't really have a need as I don't do much other than burn DVDs on the desktop anymore.
 
thanks for the info on that.

also you from texas to? Houston over here.

I dont know if you know to much about adobe aduition but it also seems when i convert it to mp3 it looses some of its clarity when i play the song i convertered, then click the intrumental mp3 right back to it. Any word on that?

another thing i notice as well (and sorry im jumping all over the place) Is when im recording it starts of at a lower level and it looks like it gradually starts to get louder. It doesnt seem like im really changing my tone in my voice.
 
sotorious said:
thanks for the info on that.

also you from texas to? Houston over here.

I dont know if you know to much about adobe aduition but it also seems when i convert it to mp3 it looses some of its clarity when i play the song i convertered, then click the intrumental mp3 right back to it. Any word on that?

another thing i notice as well (and sorry im jumping all over the place) Is when im recording it starts of at a lower level and it looks like it gradually starts to get louder. It doesnt seem like im really changing my tone in my voice.
Click to expand...

MP3 is a compression codec that assumes 16 bit / 44.1kHz / 2 channels as input. I'm not sure what that means, but I generally record in 24/96 or better so I can resample to optimum rates for a given output. 16/48 DVD / 16/44.1 CD. MP3 is a lossy codec so there's a lot of information that for all intents gets thrown out the window, never to be seen again. It's probably a codec that not even needed anymore with 1TB HDDs running < $100 these days.

The level thing is odd. Perhaps the interface turns the phantom power OFF when not recording. And it takes a bit to warm up. That trait is something I'd expect more from a Tube Mic, which has a common practice of leaving it on for 15 minutes before recording with it.
 
I'm more towards Austin. And almost equal distant from Waco. Houston is a good 190-ish miles out for me. Although I make that trek a few times a year. St. Arnolds and other redeeming qualities.
 
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