how do you record with precise timing

B

bball_1523

New member
I have had trouble recording my guitar tracks with accurate timing. I try to use a click track at 4/4, but I seriously suck at recording overdubs. For example, I will record a fast heavy riff at 120 bpm 4/4, and then when I try to record the 2nd take for the overdub, I am ALWAYS OFF! It's so frustrating, I don't know what to do.

What do you guys recommend I do?


here's an audio sample of my mistakes:

 
I know exactly what your saying...I feel your pain . But with my personal experience recording guitar, the only thing that I can really say is make sure you have your stuff down tight. try to get the right balance of click track and guitar so that you can follow one or the other or try following just the click or just the guitar. I know that sometimes I find myself either rushing things or slowing things trying to anticipate that next note or beat, and that is when things start sounding bad. But I find it helpful if I relax and just go with the flow and try not to think about the timing, in other words let it come natural. :)
 
Sometimes it's just easier to follow music than it is to follow a tick-track. So, record a rhythm track with the tick first. This is just a garbage track, don't worry about the quality. You'll just delete this track later, anyway. Then, playback and follow the rhythm track while you record the "real" track.

Or, you could have another person listen to the click and "conduct" during the recording. You know, wave their hands in the air like a symphony conductor.

Usually there's no need to worry about small timing errors in individual tracks. When you add and mix several tracks together, the small errors in individual tracks tend to disappear.

In extreme cases, when recording in software, you can "nudge" an individual track forward or backward in time to get it in with the other tracks.
 
well you know the secret is in the editing.


I was reading an article on The White Stripes and the current trend of commercial audio production, which I find to be true.


Music in the 00's is very edited music. Meaning that it is corrected and compared to a click track. The work for this can be insane, having to cut up drum tracks hit for hit, guitars and bass bar for bar, and vocals word for word.

Alot of people debate that vocals are way too perfect to not be auto tuned these days, but I think of it another way:

I think the emphasis on doing a perfect pitch take is probably more common now than in previous generations of music. So if you come across a pitch def singer, I beleive they would rather having him sing again and again until he nails the right pitch before considering auto tune.

So ideally, it does help that you play as acturate as you can before the engineer starts chopping up and aligning hits.

When things are in time (not perfect time) and in perfect pitch, that adds to this 21st century sound that might come off as "presise and together".

But that can also ruin a sound, big time. There's a fine line between "tight" and "Sterile".

For example, I'm finishing up this latin jazz album that has taken the producer forever to get into shape. The previous engineer who worked on it, before they handed it over to me, asked me, "did you align all the hits?" And I looked at him like he was crazy and replied firmly, "uh, no...why the hell am I going to take that natural vibe away?"

So you see, it depends on how you approach the matter.
 
Welcome to the wonderful world of GIGO.

You need to learn DISCIPLINE to playing the same thing identically as far as picking technique, stroke direction, velocity/amplitude of the strike, as well as strict attention to timing, tempo and nuance. And while you are doing all that you have to make it sound natural.

Only one word: PRACTICE

And do it with a metronome or click.
 
LeeRosario said:
Music in the 00's is very edited music. Meaning that it is corrected and compared to a click track. The work for this can be insane, having to cut up drum tracks hit for hit, guitars and bass bar for bar, and vocals word for word.
Click to expand...

Music in the 00's is also very CRAPPY sounding music. No feel, no groove, no nuance.

Goddamn musicians got lazy and we engineers have largely allowed them to get that way because of the editing power available. The engineer gets sick of punching in some limp bassist (chosen more for their looks than ability) in Band X so they send the mook home and just edit it because it's easier than sitting around all day waiting for doofus brain to wrap his sausage fingers around the notes.

And this is only going to get worse, because the labels don't have to be bothered by searching for bands able to "cut it" in the studio (like the golden olden days) since you can just 'ProTools' it to perfection. Personally, in that situation I'd just pull a Willy Show and get some under-the-carpet session musicians to come in and *CLAIM* that it was edited in PT.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Music in the 00's is also very CRAPPY sounding music. No feel, no groove, no nuance.

Goddamn musicians got lazy and we engineers have largely allowed them to get that way because of the editing power available. The engineer gets sick of punching in some limp bassist (chosen more for their looks than ability) in Band X so they send the mook home and just edit it because it's easier than sitting around all day waiting for doofus brain to wrap his sausage fingers around the notes.
.
Click to expand...


You know what's funny about this. If you watch the HIM video "wings of a butterfly" and then watch thier live performance on that fuse download show, then the difference is immiediately apparent.

Like I'm not even trying to remotely agree with you (some asshole told me I stick it in your ass cause I seem to agree with you alot, like I care), but it's very very true.

Same with Yellowcard. Thier lights and sounds video compared to thier 2 dollar live performance was horrific.

The only band that I can think of that can still pull off thier stuff is Green Day. The live show is just as amazing as the video, but then again, if they hadn't figured it out by now (15 years of playing.....)


But to remain on subject, before it turns into another Recording Ethics thread, I would simply have to agree and say "practice to a click".


Or as I was taught as a young kid, "learn to tap your feet to any music you hear".
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Music in the 00's is also very CRAPPY sounding music. No feel, no groove, no nuance.

Goddamn musicians got lazy and we engineers have largely allowed them to get that way because of the editing power available. The engineer gets sick of punching in some limp bassist (chosen more for their looks than ability) in Band X so they send the mook home and just edit it because it's easier than sitting around all day waiting for doofus brain to wrap his sausage fingers around the notes.

And this is only going to get worse, because the labels don't have to be bothered by searching for bands able to "cut it" in the studio (like the golden olden days) since you can just 'ProTools' it to perfection. Personally, in that situation I'd just pull a Willy Show and get some under-the-carpet session musicians to come in and *CLAIM* that it was edited in PT.
Click to expand...

I agree! It's more about smoke and mirrors than talent these days. Most of the singers are so bad that "tone deaf" doesn't even begin to describe them. If auto-tune is being used on these poor bastards then I would hate to hear the unaltered tracks. What a bunch of Gong Show rejects.
 
as a guitarist myself i cannot or find it very hard to play along to a click sound (because its not part of the music,well its not music) so instead i usually lay down a simple drum or bass track then recording guitar over that then i usually change the drums or bass any way that way its in time .this is the way i like to do it although it does take longer to get the guitar down.
 
I don't use click tracks either. I lay down a simple drum track with no fills and also a simple bass part that fits the groove. After that, guitars and other instruments are added. Then I rerecord the drums the way I want with fills etc. and the bass part with any variations. It works for me.
 
if im with my drummer i use his drums (i dont have any) if not i play the drums in with a midi keyboard
 
I know what you mean..:)...
I've been practicing my ass of on metronome with drums...going pretty well..always improvement needed..

But when I record our Rythm Guitar player out of my band, he has NO problem to overdub anystuff he writes and record it nice to click, offcourse he also makes some mistakes but those are not huge or anything and it's easy to re-record...
Since for our demo we're recording 4 layers of rythm guitar he needs to have it tight...

On the other hand..the lead guitar..he's just sloppy..and really stuttering..it's like he's afraid of a record button or something..he ALWAYS fucks up whenever he needs to record...also it's (almost) impossible to record on a click with him..eventually he will succeed...but it just takes more time...
whenever we practice or perform live...he has no problem or what so ever...he'll play it all without an error...
 
LeeRosario said:
I was reading an article on The White Stripes and the current trend of commercial audio production, which I find to be true.


Music in the 00's is very edited music. Meaning that it is corrected and compared to a click track. The work for this can be insane, having to cut up drum tracks hit for hit, guitars and bass bar for bar, and vocals word for word.
Click to expand...

Is this article online? I'd be interested in reading it.

And if you believe that all music currently made today is "very edited", then you're listening to the wrong stuff.
 
Adam P said:
Is this article online? I'd be interested in reading it.

And if you believe that all music currently made today is "very edited", then you're listening to the wrong stuff.
Click to expand...


I think it was either in SoundonSound.com (BeatDetective Tutorial) or the current issue of Mix magazine (modern day problems with modern day solutions).

I dont like to listen to edited material, cause then the habit will eventually stick to me. So really, I like to beleive that not all music out there has been given breast implants. But lot of music today *unfortunatly* wouldn't be anything without it.

So if I can hear when something is morbidly altered, I simply change the station. :)


found it...here we go:

And this article was written in 2003, so you can imagine how cultlike the use of editing must be by now.

SoundonSound Article
 
heres a tip that helps me:

- first know your part good enough so you dont need to hear it to play it (you can play be feel and sight while not being mechanical)
- not turn up the metronome (or turn down your guitar) so that you barely hear your guitar. this way your focus will mostly all be on the metronome and your guitar part will already be solid because you can play it without hearing it.

this probably works mostly for rhythm parts.... dont know if it will work for everyone but its helped me and the guys in my band when we recorded our album.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top