Hooking up effects I need some advice
- Thread starter bachelorb
- Start date
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Not really. For example, you want to insert a compressor; Click the plug in halfway to get the send signal > take that cable and plug into the input of the comp > run another cable from the output of the comp into the tape deck.
Then run a cable from the tape out jack of the deck to input (s) 5 through 8 for monitoring.
For mixdown you could pull all the cables going to tape cause they wouldn't be needed anymore.
Unless I'm a moron, which is a possibility, that should work.
And the only wrinkle to this, and why I didn't suggest this, is because then there's no chance to utilize the eq or send effects during tracking if he wants to print any of those wet...depending on where in the signal chain the insert jack is sitting...the block diagram would indicate this...it may be pre eq or post eq. If it is pre eq then he would have to use two channels, one for the head amp then out to the compressor, then output of the compressor to another input...then out of that to the tape deck. It is maybe an important thing to determine if the inserts are pre or post eq...unless that has been determined already and I missed it.
Brad, everybody is absolutely right...no right or wrong way to utilize compression (print to tape or use it during mixdown). You should try both ways and see what you like.
Brad is there any way you can post a good pic of the block diagram for the mixer? If the inserts are post eq I'm liking the idea of having a set of unbalanced cables that are TRS on one end to TS or RCA at the other end, and have the tip and ring of the TRS plug linked. You would insert these fully to get a send to your tape deck and also be able to monitor that input, or if you want to use the insert for effects during tracking insert the TRS plug to only the first click (and then to compressor and then to tape deck) and then monitor off the return channel (or using the CUE mixer on the 234 to the TAPE input of the mixer).
Bottom line is you've got some options for how you can set things up to make it as easy as possible to reconfigure depending on how you are tracking (with or without effects) and still be able to monitor with a minimum of re-patching. You've got the functionality there between the mixer's feature-set and the CUE mixer on the 234...you just need to make some of those special TRS cables and we need to figure out if the M-08 inserts are pre or post eq.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Ah!
Found the manual.
The inserts are post eq and pre aux send, and they are indeed normalling jacks, so this is good.
Found the manual.
The inserts are post eq and pre aux send, and they are indeed normalling jacks, so this is good.
bachelorb
Cowboy Chord Virtuoso
Alright..... Let's see if I got this.......
Basic Setup
Mic/instrument --> CH 1 mixer ---> out the insert ---> Track 1 on input 4-track recorder ---> out Track 1 output 4 track recorder ---> CH 5 mixer
Mic/instrument --> CH 2 mixer ---> out the insert ---> Track 2 on input 4-track recorder ---> out Track 2 output 4 track recorder ---> CH 6 mixer
Mic/instrument --> CH 3 mixer ---> out the insert ---> Track 3 input on 4-track recorder ---> out Track 3 output 4 track recorder ---> CH 7 mixer
Mic/instrument --> CH 4 mixer ---> out the insert ---> Track 4 input on 4-track recorder ---> out Track 4 output 4 track recorder ---> CH 8 mixer
Compressor While Tracking (ex. Channel 1)
Mic/instrument --> CH 1 mixer --->Repatch standard cable out the insert ---> Y-cable compressor input---> Y-cable compressor output --->Standard cable to Track 1 input 4 track recorder ---> CH 5 mixer
Compressor While Tracking (ex. Channel 5)
Repatch CH 5 to CH 1 mixer ---> Repatch insert cable out the insert ---> insert cable to other end of y connecters at the input and output of compressor---> stereo out
Aux 1 and Effects Return handle all the Nanoverb duties during mixdown and tracking
How'd I do?????
Basic Setup
Mic/instrument --> CH 1 mixer ---> out the insert ---> Track 1 on input 4-track recorder ---> out Track 1 output 4 track recorder ---> CH 5 mixer
Mic/instrument --> CH 2 mixer ---> out the insert ---> Track 2 on input 4-track recorder ---> out Track 2 output 4 track recorder ---> CH 6 mixer
Mic/instrument --> CH 3 mixer ---> out the insert ---> Track 3 input on 4-track recorder ---> out Track 3 output 4 track recorder ---> CH 7 mixer
Mic/instrument --> CH 4 mixer ---> out the insert ---> Track 4 input on 4-track recorder ---> out Track 4 output 4 track recorder ---> CH 8 mixer
Compressor While Tracking (ex. Channel 1)
Mic/instrument --> CH 1 mixer --->Repatch standard cable out the insert ---> Y-cable compressor input---> Y-cable compressor output --->Standard cable to Track 1 input 4 track recorder ---> CH 5 mixer
Compressor While Tracking (ex. Channel 5)
Repatch CH 5 to CH 1 mixer ---> Repatch insert cable out the insert ---> insert cable to other end of y connecters at the input and output of compressor---> stereo out
Aux 1 and Effects Return handle all the Nanoverb duties during mixdown and tracking
How'd I do?????
famous beagle
Well-known member
The basic setup looks good.
I'm confused by the Compressor while tracking (ex. Channel 5). Why would you be using CH 5 when you're tracking (other than monitoring)?
And what do you mean by "stereo out?" The compressor is mono. You can't get a stereo out.
When I get some time this evening, I can draw a diagram of what I mean. Maybe that will make it clearer.
bachelorb
Cowboy Chord Virtuoso
I wrote it wrong..... Crap!!.... let's try this again....
Basic Setup
Mic/instrument --> CH 1 mixer ---> out the insert ---> Track 1 on input 4-track recorder ---> out Track 1 output 4 track recorder ---> CH 5 mixer
Mic/instrument --> CH 2 mixer ---> out the insert ---> Track 2 on input 4-track recorder ---> out Track 2 output 4 track recorder ---> CH 6 mixer
Mic/instrument --> CH 3 mixer ---> out the insert ---> Track 3 input on 4-track recorder ---> out Track 3 output 4 track recorder ---> CH 7 mixer
Mic/instrument --> CH 4 mixer ---> out the insert ---> Track 4 input on 4-track recorder ---> out Track 4 output 4 track recorder ---> CH 8 mixer
Compressor While Tracking (ex. Channel 1)
Mic/instrument --> CH 1 mixer --->Repatch standard cable out the insert ---> Y-cable compressor input---> Y-cable compressor output --->Standard cable to Track 1 input 4 track recorder ---> CH 5 mixer
Compressor While MIXING (ex. Channel 5)
Repatch CH 5 to CH 1 mixer ---> Repatch insert cable out the insert ---> insert cable to other end of y connecters at the input and output of compressor---> Back to insert
Aux 1 and Effects Return handle all the Nanoverb duties during mixdown and tracking
During mixing, everything ends up going to stereo out so I can send it to the computer.
The "Stereo out" was really confusing.
Is this better?
famous beagle
Well-known member
Great advice. Ijust wanted to mention that when I wired my studio I made copies of all the input/output diagrams in the manuals and listed all the equipment. Then with some software tools at work I created a custom wiring layout all organized and neat. That let me figure out what connections and wires I needed before installing everything in racks and to the patchbay. I guess I'm visual oriented. It really helped me get the flow right and my studio wiring is almost anally neat. Of course in the process of working it gets kinda messy but I have a reference to get back to. It helps that I make a living being orderly and organized ( training developer) and my meager carpentry skills allowed me to build a desk and racks to suit my needs.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Got any pics you can post? 
bachelorb
Cowboy Chord Virtuoso
I think I will sometime next week. We had a scare starting last thursday.... My wife's kidneys just shut right down!! I was cussing the woman two weeks ago when she was having me hike all over New Mexico!!!! Now she's hooked up to the machine that goes "bing"....It looks like the dialysis life for us now.... at least for a while.
The ironic thing is we are probably going to have to look for a house to settle down in...... anyone got a Tascam 312 for sale????
(this is not meant to be a woe is me post...... In fact, when I get back to the trailer to take care of the animals, I'm looking at this site for pics too!!!.... Get back on that power supply SB!!! )
The ironic thing is we are probably going to have to look for a house to settle down in...... anyone got a Tascam 312 for sale????
(this is not meant to be a woe is me post...... In fact, when I get back to the trailer to take care of the animals, I'm looking at this site for pics too!!!.... Get back on that power supply SB!!!
)
famous beagle
Well-known member
Really sorry to hear that about your wife! I hope her health improves quickly.
Coincidentally, I'm in Taos, NM (on vacation) as I type this.
Coincidentally, I'm in Taos, NM (on vacation) as I type this.
bachelorb
Cowboy Chord Virtuoso
Thanks FB...... We really liked NM alot!! and out that on one of the places when we settle down.
Back on topic here. I am kinda intrigued by RFR's (and Ghosts) hooking two boards together. Could I do something like that with another M-08 board. This is just fact finding right now, although there is another board like mine on Ebay for cheap...... hmmmmm........
Back on topic here. I am kinda intrigued by RFR's (and Ghosts) hooking two boards together. Could I do something like that with another M-08 board. This is just fact finding right now, although there is another board like mine on Ebay for cheap...... hmmmmm........
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Yes, you would take the stereo L-R output of mixer #1 and connect that to the stereo buss L-R inputs on mixer #2. You have your headphones hooked to mixer #2 because with the sum from mixer #1 connected to mixer #2 at the buss in jacks, everything you do mix-wise on mixer #1 will be heard in that sum at the buss inputs to the stereo buss of mixer #2, which is what you hear in the headphones of the mixer.
See the top diagram of page 6 of your manual.
But Brad, why increase your real estate and still lack some essential ease-of-use functions typical to a multitrack setup? I'd be all over an M-106 if I was in your shoes. I'm asking an honest question...just wanting to understand why the M-08, which is a basic live mixer.
bachelorb
Cowboy Chord Virtuoso
Got any pics you can post?
Ask and ye........
There I am cabled and labeled. Everything really fits in nice. My insert cable still has tape on it because I have a right angle one on order.
When it's in the "Table" configuration, the AUX OUT, EFFECTS IN, and INSERT cable are unplugged from the mixer and tucked underneath.
I've been looking at this other one for spare parts mainly (or a spare if I fry the other one).
I have room for it in my PA box underneath the trailer. Then I saw RFR's post and wondered if we did end up having to give up traveling, could I also do gsomething like that with two M-08's.
I'm curious SB..... What does the M106 buy me function wise over what I have??
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Well for one it has 4 program groups. Instead of only having a stereo out it has 4 outputs you connect to the inputs of your 234, and any input on the M-106 can be bussed to any or all of the program groups. AND...maybe most importantly it has a usable monitor section. All you have right now is the ability to monitor the stereo buss, and the TAPE inputs. On the M-106 you can monitor any or all of the 4 program groups, the aux buss or the effect buss...and there's a MONO function. Also, the mixer inputs are source selectable so no re-patching between mic and line when you are tracking vs during mixdown. And the aux buss has a line source switch for setting CUE mixes during overdubs. And there are sliders for each channel vs rotary pots. It's a mini studio mixer. It would do fine live too, but it can do all sorts of stuff the M-08 can't do. And it's channels are on individual vertical cards vs (I think) the M-08's single horizontal PCB with surface mount components. More vulnerable, cheaper components and harder to repair.
bachelorb
Cowboy Chord Virtuoso
I was reading this a little more (and trying to wrap my head around it) this morning.
The only thing I could ask for at the moment is a way to sub-mix two channels during tracking without reconfiguring the mixer. I think what your saying is with the M-106, I could set up 4 of the channels for both tracking and mixing including effects, and have two more channels free for sub-mixing right???
The only thing I could ask for at the moment is a way to sub-mix two channels during tracking without reconfiguring the mixer. I think what your saying is with the M-106, I could set up 4 of the channels for both tracking and mixing including effects, and have two more channels free for sub-mixing right???
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
I'm not sure I follow your scenario.
Can you spell the scenario out like I'm a 3 year old?
• What are your sources?
• What track(s) are you wanting those sources recorded on?
• Are you monitoring playback of any tracks during recording?
• Are you wanting to record the track(s) wet (i.e. with effects) or dry (and just monitor effects during tracking)?
Sorry to make you work harder just to get what I *think* is a simple answer of "yes", but I'm not clear how you are having to "reconfigure" the M-08 at present, nor am I clear what you mean when you say "mixing" and "sub-mixing"; I'm not certain what stages of the process you are doing these things since mixing and sub-mixing can and often do occur at all stages of the process: tracking, overdubbing, and mixdown/mastering.
Not trying to be difficult...just want to make sure I give you a solid, informed and informative answer.
Can you spell the scenario out like I'm a 3 year old?
• What are your sources?
• What track(s) are you wanting those sources recorded on?
• Are you monitoring playback of any tracks during recording?
• Are you wanting to record the track(s) wet (i.e. with effects) or dry (and just monitor effects during tracking)?
Sorry to make you work harder just to get what I *think* is a simple answer of "yes", but I'm not clear how you are having to "reconfigure" the M-08 at present, nor am I clear what you mean when you say "mixing" and "sub-mixing"; I'm not certain what stages of the process you are doing these things since mixing and sub-mixing can and often do occur at all stages of the process: tracking, overdubbing, and mixdown/mastering.
Not trying to be difficult...just want to make sure I give you a solid, informed and informative answer.
bachelorb
Cowboy Chord Virtuoso
Well, here is my scenario now (I'll apologize for the terminology upfront.....)
How would you set this up on say a M-106 (or any mixer with busses.... I've never had one). but lets just say the 106 since that was brought up as a good one.
One of the other things I do is collaborate with others on 4 track cassette songs. Each person lays down one track. Here was how the last one was sent to me:
Track 1: Bass
Track 2 : Egg Shaker
Track 3: Drums
I had to create track 4. I decided on guitar and vocal. On the portastudio, I have had to put a mic between the guitar and mouth and try to figure out the right level and adjust the mic accordingly . On this song I used two channels on the Tascam -08 to submix the levels and sent them to track 4.
Could I do something like this with the M-106 without repatching anything but the mic or line inputs?
How would you set this up on say a M-106 (or any mixer with busses.... I've never had one). but lets just say the 106 since that was brought up as a good one.
One of the other things I do is collaborate with others on 4 track cassette songs. Each person lays down one track. Here was how the last one was sent to me:
Track 1: Bass
Track 2 : Egg Shaker
Track 3: Drums
I had to create track 4. I decided on guitar and vocal. On the portastudio, I have had to put a mic between the guitar and mouth and try to figure out the right level and adjust the mic accordingly . On this song I used two channels on the Tascam -08 to submix the levels and sent them to track 4.
Could I do something like this with the M-106 without repatching anything but the mic or line inputs?