high end soundcard for high speed A/D

OK, so why do you need a card capable of goin g to 100khz in frequency like stated in your first post. As far as cards that will record with a sample rate of up to 192 khz and various multipliers of 44.1 and 48 khz, there are plenty of them out there. If you really want that high of a smaple rate, maybe you would be better served by an outboard converter with a digital interface (or usb or firewire).

In either case, you asked a question. Some people may have misinterpreted it because they did not fully understand what you are trying to accomplish. There is no need to be rude to them about that, just clarify so they can understand or ignore the post. Obviously you do not know the answer or you would not be asking the question so it really isn't fair to be rude to someone else for not knowing either. In any case, you are asking for something out of the norm. The way you described what you need is very misleading in my opinion. When you mention needing an analog bandwidth of 80 to 100khz that adds a lot of confusion to the topic. In my opinion that was probably unnecessary. First off, does your high speed deck and the tape inside it and the signal recorded on it actually desirable or even usable content above 20khz? Much less all the way to 100khz?

It seems to me that the question you really should have asked is what soundcards are available that will utilize sample rates up to 192 khz or better. This question would have been easy to answer and caused no issue. Really there was no issue anyhow until your short fuse created one. Hopefully next time you can choose to react in a civil manor and stop polluting this BBS with that kind of attitude.
 
IronFlippy said:
There are harmonics in speech that go over 10kHz. If you want to limit them, that's your decision. I was trying to figure out why you only needed 176kHz when the minimum standard sampling frequency is 44.1kHz. Multiply it by 8 to get all those frequencies in and you end up with 352.8kHz.

The point is that your original question didn't include enough detail for anyone to be able to recommend anything. How were we supposed to know you recorded at 22kHz? We didn't know you had so much tape to convert, so we didn't even know why you needed it to be done at 8x speed.

And yes, I know of several cards that can handle that sampling rate. In fact, a quick search just found me several more.
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Read my first post. I asked for information on alternatives to the quite acceptable soundcard I described. I mentioned the key specification. Details on the Lynx 22 are easily obtainable from the www. That's all the "detail" anybody needed unless they were trying to be smart and tell me how to do my job, and there seemed no shortage of those. What you say is nonsense. You DONT need that information to suggest a suitable card, unless you are doing my job, and you arent.

It doesnt take a genius to work out my final sample rate is 22khz. drstawl worked it out. If I'd told you myself I suppose I would have been insulting your collective intelligence. Thankyou for doing the hard mathematical work of dividing 176 by 8...
If any of you questioned the wisdom of the 22khz rate, why not say it from the start, simply and clearly? I was and still am seeking an alternative card. My job here is not to give you a tutorial on the details of my specialised work, let alone be a mind reader.

"cards that can handle that sample rate".... I know there is no shortage of such cards. It's not that simple. They must also have the analog to digital bandwidth required. The very requirement I DID give. The high sample rate is assumed.

"minimum standard sampling frequency" -according to which application? Ever since the beginning of audio recording, over 100 years ago, engineers have tailored audio bandwidth and dynamic specifications to the program requirements (eg: speech or music) and economic and other realities.

So what are these cards? That was the whole point of my thread, that is before it got hijacked.
 
boingoman said:
Why don't you go ask somewhere where somebody gives a shit?
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Good question.

A few days before I started this thread I got onto the Lynx manufacturer's own forum. The real boss replied almost instantly to my enquiry and gave me the exact audio specs I needed. I didnt have the hide to ask him to tell me of any competitor's product as he'd been so helpful and I was very grateful. Still am.
Then seeking an alternative card I posted this thread. The rest is history...
 
Tim Gillett said:
The rest is history...
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The rest is someone initially misunderstanding your request and you jumping down his throat like some fucking asshole. The guy was only trying to help you. Ok, so maybe he didn't help, but at least he fucking tried to, right?


If you're going to be such a dickhead, go piss all over another forum.


Oh yeh, and perhaps in your infinitessimal knowledge, you forgot to notice that this is homerecording.com, and not professionalrecordingfullofdouchebags.com (where you would probably be more suited to the general mentality).



Complicated? I don't think so...
 
i left you some rep, asshole.

go be a dickhead and listen to your steps, climbing stairs, another guy seducing your wife, whatever.

have fun in another forum becuase you blew your chance here to be respected at all.
 
Wow I thought I was the only one who did weird stuff like this. You are apparently kind of a d***, but whatever.
If the Lynx specs will work, I would go with that route. There may be cheaper alternatives, but most of the specifications for them just show 20-20k response as you may have already found. You could get something like an E-Mu 1212M and test it for your purpose and return it if it doesn't have wide enough freq response.

Although I'm sure you have thought of this and everything else, you may have troubles with the playback electronics of your tape machine being able to handle frequencies above 20k. If I am reading you right, say all you care about is 6K; the electronics in your playback machine will need to be able to handle frequencies up around 48k. If you are planning on doing 3.75ips tapes at 30ips, I might recommend you bring it down to 15ips. Depending on what this stuff is, you may be able to dump all the tracks off at the same time, and reverse whatever tracks may need reversing once they are in the computer to save time. Going down to 4x will also allow you to get away with less stringent specs on the soundcard, and you could get away with something cheap like an m-audio or e-mu or whatever.

Congratulations on getting paid to know this stuff. So do I. :p
 
When I see red chicklets I always think "asshole alert!" but the guy seemed to ask a reasonable question in a reasonable way so I'd give him a chance... but sure enough by his first reply, he confirmed my fear! :)

And ironically he started off by saying...

Tim Gillett said:
Any help appreciated.
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But this roughly translates to "I'll spit in the face of anybody who tries to help me who I judge to be beneath my level of intelligence" :rolleyes:
 
Ironically, he started this thread with green chiclets.

Now he seems to be ignoring my question. My guess is because it is a reasonable question that exposes his crap.
 
Reggie said:
Wow I thought I was the only one who did weird stuff like this. You are apparently kind of a d***, but whatever.
If the Lynx specs will work, I would go with that route. There may be cheaper alternatives, but most of the specifications for them just show 20-20k response as you may have already found. You could get something like an E-Mu 1212M and test it for your purpose and return it if it doesn't have wide enough freq response.

Although I'm sure you have thought of this and everything else, you may have troubles with the playback electronics of your tape machine being able to handle frequencies above 20k. If I am reading you right, say all you care about is 6K; the electronics in your playback machine will need to be able to handle frequencies up around 48k. If you are planning on doing 3.75ips tapes at 30ips, I might recommend you bring it down to 15ips. Depending on what this stuff is, you may be able to dump all the tracks off at the same time, and reverse whatever tracks may need reversing once they are in the computer to save time. Going down to 4x will also allow you to get away with less stringent specs on the soundcard, and you could get away with something cheap like an m-audio or e-mu or whatever.

Congratulations on getting paid to know this stuff. So do I. :p
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You must have missed reading my first post where I said I was using a professional tape duplicator (only the playback or master deck part of it) as analog source. They come with wideband playback heads and electronics so they can reproduce all the original frequencies on the tape, now much higher while being duplicated.
I spent the last 20 or more years servicing such high speed duplicators and they've been around much longer than that. Brands like Ampex, Otari, Sony, Telex, 3M were common. Otari still sells a couple of models. There were reel to reel high speed versions before cassettes came along. All such units copy all tracks in one pass. So if you have a stereo cassette tape, all 4 tracks get done in one pass.
Yes, with analog to digital, it's necessary to "reverse" the backwards playing tracks which is no big deal because it's still a lot quicker capturaing all tracks in one hit.
So far I've only found the Lynx which is supposed to be flat to 70 or 80 khz but that should give me flat to 8 or 9khz which is about the bandwidth of the master tapes.
For normal real time applications I would never buy the Lynx as I dont subscribe to the religion that we "hear' sounds above audibility. But its ridiculous bandwidth serves a useful purpose here. So it's a winner in my book. If you hear of any other brand or model I'd appreciate it if you passed it on. All the best with your work.

Tim.
 
You really want an answer do you?

Why do I need a soundcard capable of going to 100khz frequency like I said in my first post? Because I am doing the transfers at high speed, like I also said in my first post.

Is that not a complete enough answer? I could go further and explain why speeding up the tape playback raises the frequency band if you like but I suspect most people reading this forum understand that instinctively and I would have thought you did too. Is this your idea of a joke or do you genuinely need more explanation? Really I dont mind either way. I've read some of your posts on other forums and you seem like a reasonable person.

Over to you.

Tim
 
There are people who have the endless blackhole eyes of a shark... They wank-off to porn all day, watch little girls walk home from school, and ultimately end-up on cold case files... Their work, their lives, their skin is worthless...

Very interesting, thou...
 
Tim Gillett said:
You must have missed reading my first post where I said I was using a professional tape duplicator (only the playback or master deck part of it) as analog source. They come with wideband playback heads and electronics so they can reproduce all the original frequencies on the tape, now much higher while being duplicated.
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Ah, indeed I did miss that somehow. I was scanning the good stuff (the later posts) looking for the details on what you were doing and managed to miss it in the first post. But now you have me curious, how are you interfacing the tape duplicator to a soundcard? What are you going to have to modify?

If you want to save some dough compared to the Lynx2, I think you can use two m-audio Audiophile192 cards at the same time. They claim 20-80k response for the analog inputs in the specifications in the manual. $360 = 2 cards. Might do the job.
 
Reggie said:
Ah, indeed I did miss that somehow. I was scanning the good stuff (the later posts) looking for the details on what you were doing and managed to miss it in the first post. But now you have me curious, how are you interfacing the tape duplicator to a soundcard? What are you going to have to modify?

If you want to save some dough compared to the Lynx2, I think you can use two m-audio Audiophile192 cards at the same time. They claim 20-80k response for the analog inputs in the specifications in the manual. $360 = 2 cards. Might do the job.
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Nothing special in the interface. The Otaris have quite strong and low Z outputs (about 40 ohms I think) because they feed multiple slaves I guess and also to avoid losses at hi Hz as the cables get long, so no problem there. Level is -4dbm I think, which is more than enough for a good prosumer sound card I should think. Can always pad it down if output driver noise is an issue.

I'll check out the M Audio cards. If they do the same job it'll be much cheaper. Thanks for the tip. Could be just the ticket.

Hey they are some serious dulicators there at National.

Tim
 
Well Tim, I figured that would be your answer. I don't buy that you really need all that bandwidth, but hey I could be wrong. Either way, all of this could have been avoided with some common sense on your end.
 
Can someone point me to any evidence that the electronics of a hi speed dubber would output AUDIO (not tape to tape charge) but actual audio past 20khz?
 
Tim Gillett said:
Hey they are some serious dulicators there at National.
Tim
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Oh yes, it's crazy. I think we may be the largest capacity cassette duper now?

pipelineaudio said:
Can someone point me to any evidence that the electronics of a hi speed dubber would output AUDIO (not tape to tape charge) but actual audio past 20khz?
Click to expand...
Well, we have a digital bin duplicator that puts out audio to the duping slaves at up to 2.5megahurts at 128X, if I recall correctly. :D
 
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