Hi-hat bleed through the snare mic AAARGH

northsiderap

northsiderap

New member
Hey all, my first post.

I have had a problem with my hi-hats bleeding heavily through my snare mic. I've moved the mic all over the place. Lately I've taped a big ol' foam pad on the side of the hi-hats with no success at all. I've moved the drums into the center of the room to cut reflections off of the wall. I added giant rolls of foam on the hi-hat side, and behind them I put rockwool at all odd angles to diffuse the reflections. I duct taped the !@%$% out of my hats.

Guess what? No change. Even with the snare track solo'ed it sounds like HAT HAT HAT HAT HAT HAT HAT snare HAT HAT HAT HAT snare ........ :mad:

I'd like a nice bright revealing snare sound with some compression & reverb, but the hi-hats always bleed through and force me to EQ the top end way down. It gets worse after I compress, and I have to overcompensate with an EQ or de-esser, once again killing that nice bright snare sound.

I use FFT analysis to find the dominant hi-hat frequencies and squash them. Once again and always, killing my snare sound. It sounds all mid-rangey at best and I am starting to hate it.

I record my drums with:

Two Groove Tubes AM62s either XY or X-----Y panned 1/4 left & 1/4 right. Distance from the set depends on my mood and how I have my room.

A EV 644 shotgun mic a few inches away from the bass drum. :D

A Shure SM-57 about 3-6 inches from the top of the snare, about 4 inches in.

For preamps I've tried:

My Lamb Laboratories discrete mixer for L/R (bright!)
Presonus BLUETUBE for L/R or bass & snare
My custom racked Dukane thingies (very flat)
Vintage Fairchild thingamabobs in a rack (dark, maybe NEVE-like)
My Behringer mixer (ummm...)

Can anyone help me? Has anyone made it through this whole post? :confused:

---Jim--
==NorthSideRap.com==
 
Here is a sound sample...

This is about as good as it gets for snare/hats ratio for me. I want the hats to be more of a background thing...



feel free to email me too... NorthSideRap @ Yahoo.com

--Jim--
==NorthSideRap.com==
 
Is the 57 pointing towards or away from the hats?

You could try moving the hats further away, moving the mic closer to the snare, hitting the snare harder. It will all help
 
Move the mic to within an inch of the snare and point the back of the 57 toward the hats. If it is still a problem, you need quieter hats or a louder snare, or both.
 
Either change the hihats to a lighter pair or don't hit them as hard. Otherwise your problem isn't going away.
 
switching form a regular 57 to a beta57a will make a big difference actually. It gives you a little added brightness at the mic, with a little better off axis rejection. This is also why I always have a bottom snare mic out as well.
 
first, try to control the problem at the source. hit the snare harder and the hats lighter. exhibit some player's dynamics instead of just wailing away on the hats.

second, you're seeing one of the #1 reasons people don't like an sm57 on snare drum. it's not that the off-axis rejection is poor, it's that it's *weird* sounding......i don't like my 57 on snare and don't use it unless i have to. unfortunately, though, i have to use it more often than i'd like. you might want to try a Beyer 201, as that's a very popular snare mic.


cheers,
wade
 
You can also mic the underside of the snare. That'll give you great crispness while rejecting a lot more snare.

Make sure you flip the phase on the undersnare mic.
 
put your high hats higher. that's why their called high hats, not low hats.

put your mic about 1 1/2 in off the skin too.

when i get the oppurtunity, i will show you a snare track with minimal hat bleed.
 
I use a 6" piece of cardboard wrapped in acoustic foam. (both sides)
It's placed just above the snare mic (sm57) and just below the hats with a dual mic clip.

I'm guessing on the rest so if I'm wrong I'll say sorry in advance.
Anyway what I hear from the recording is the snare is not tuned properly giving you a lifeless tone due to the heads not working together. Also try moving the snare just below top rim and about an inch from side.
This will pick up the shell as well as the attack of the head.

Hope this helps!

C
 
i agree completely with getting the drummer to refine his/her style a bit, but the studio is not the place for that. The place for that is at practice and at home before coming into the studio. One of the most important things in getting a good recording is to make the musicians comfortable. Asking them to change their setups and try too many different techniques on the spot is not a good way to do that. Most likely it will damage their confidence and you won't get their best take. All that should happen in preproduction or sooner. As an engineer, it is my job to assist the musicians in a positive manner and do my best to capture what they give me. If this means low high hats, sneaking a tom mic in under a low cymbal or whatever, than that is my job. If a musician is comfortable with making certain changes and it won't affect their immediate ability to perform well then by all means, do it. If not, find another way to do what you need. Different mics, more or less of them, positioning, placing barriers etc...
 
< you can gate the snare >

from what he's said, if the OH bleed is the same level as or louder than the snare hits, then gating won't do you a damn bit of good.

i too would try a beyer 201......lord knows i need one.


cheers,
wade
 
Thanks!

Where do I look for a good deal on the Beyer?

I made a shortie mic stand with a shock mount, and I"m going to sneak it in under the hi-hats, point it at an angle towards the edge of the shell and head pointing behind the set. and probably create a small barrier too... My snare gets kind of 'bonky - poingy' when I mic too close tho... I'm already cutting 200-400 hz to remove the 'bonk' sound I get because the bottom head is so dead... (see related topic later in the message.)

I'm hoping that the hats aren't reflecting off of the snare head/shell and creating my problem.

I do play light on the snare usually. I like a lot of tippy-tappy-roll type of stuff, cuz I love jazz. I usually don't beat the hats as hard as in the recording, but they are always 'up front' in the mix anyway.

A related topic: How do y'all keep your bottom snares from rattling away when there's any bass or tom playing? Every time I hit a tom or jam with a string player who hits certain notes my snares go wild... Right now I have duct tape 'fingers' all over the bottom head and I've used shirts, socks, etc wherever the snare was at a resonance to another sound/drum...

Thanks for the suggestions, and keep 'em comin'!!!!
 
Last edited:
northsiderap said:
A related topic: How do y'all keep your bottom snares from rattling away when there's any bass or tom playing? Every time I hit a tom or jam with a string player who hits certain notes my snares go wild... Right now I have duct tape 'fingers' all over the bottom head and I've used shirts, socks, etc wherever the snare was at a resonance to another sound/drum...

Thanks for the suggestions, and keep 'em comin'!!!!
Click to expand...
You could tighten the snares up a bit. It really sounds like you are trying to get complete isolation, you can't. A drums set is one instrument that all works together. everything affects everything else, that's the way it is supposed to work. Embrace it.

Meanwhile, listen to just the overheads. If your hi-hat is that much louder than your snare, you:
A. have the wrong kind of hats
B. are playing with inappropriate dynamics
C. are using the wrong snare/heads/tuning

Even when you are playing jazzy kind of stuff, there is still enough force behind the hit to make the drum speak. I know it looks as if those players are barely touching the drum, but that is not the case.
 
the first time i used a half decent compressor on my sm57 snare mic and had the mic close the the snare (top) i could hardly hear the HH, but still there a bit. I figure that as long as the snare is louder and my HH track has the majority of HH, then I can control the 2 levels enough and the bleed stays and makes no diff. why is bleed so bad? are you heavily processing or having to switch phase and getting weird cancellations? also HH is 8" higher than my snare. Am I alone or is everyone trying to get a high level of isolation?
 
Mic'ing the snare (Let your snares run free)

1) I took the ten pounds of duct tape with the sock inside of it off of the bottom of the snare.

2) I moved the mic under the hi-hat, aiming at the top rim/shell area

3) Good Sofar

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.... Amazing how much placement impacts the sound...
 
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