Help needed....Im an extreme beginner with a simple problem, i think....

Ding-dong aside.

I don't get it? We hardly ever burn things to CD anymore (and my old Proton is tape!) but I do not recall a level problem?

I have just exported a demo multitrack to .wav and burned it to CD using Nero 6 (yes ok! But Normalizing* off) . The meters in my Delta 2496 show exactly the same levels for the CD (played in WMP) as for the original .wav and AFAICT they sound identical.

*Never had it on but once. CDs played ok on most things except for my very old Philips player, one of the very first, when that would distort on peaks.

Oh! And we are unashamedly Home Recordists (well, "He" play/record. Me mostly solder and pay)
Dave.
 
I'm not saying you all don't know the answer, I'm just saying that you're all wrong and you're all right. The problem is the question. There's no information except the levels before clipping and the volume on his car CD player. This person is not ready for more info just now, so the guy who suggested reading and reading some more is the most right. That being said, ears are the final judge of all mixing and mastering. A monkey can smear paint but that doesn't make him an artist. Anyone can learn how to get some tracks and put them together but that doesn't make them a recording engineer. This person right now just needs more volume. Most programs like cubase have a mastering multiband compressor with presets. He should run his mix through that and A/B them to see which one give him what he wants for now. Mastering his mix won't hurt it if he saves a copy first, then masters one of them. He needs to practice doing. Then he can learn what he wants. Imagine him trying to work with a mastering engineer when he has no idea what he wants? (I can tell because he uses the word "louder") What he means is "more like finished CD's that he buys.". To do all this right he needs to learn these things and the differences between them.
1- Gainstaging
2- Mixing (starting with the bass and vocal first, then drums, then other instruments.)
3- EQing (Using a parametric; cutting out the bad as opposed to boosting the good)
4- creating the mix as a separate file.
5- Copying the mix
6- Using the multiband compressor with A/B tests.
This will help most amateurs get what they are doing right. Most amateurs have never been near a real recording studio and have never read anything in the recording magazines or bought a book on recording. One thing is always true. Books are cheaper than the recording equipment and far more valuable. I wish a lot of musicians would go buy the books first; then you wouldn't see so many questions here about why this won't work with that.
I copied all of the fundamental articles from all of my recording magazines; things like frequencies and gainstaging; things that never change, and put them into three large binders. I also asked questions every time I worked in a studio. I built the first home recording studio in NYC and was recording live with MOTU Digital Performer while their program still used line drawings for mixing boards. It took me three years before I had something to play for an engineer. He was amazed I had managed to get that level of quality in the recording. I told him I stopped trying so hard. I let the mustic do the work and just tried to capture things accurately. So, try each of the things suggested here but do it on copies of your mix. See what works for you. Learn as much as you can, both by doing and by reading and trying it out. Good Luck and welcome to the world of recording.
 
Rod Norman said:
I'm not saying you all don't know the answer, I'm just saying that you're all wrong and you're all right. The problem is the question. There's no information except the levels before clipping and the volume on his car CD player. This person is not ready for more info just now, so the guy who suggested reading and reading some more is the most right. That being said, ears are the final judge of all mixing and mastering. A monkey can smear paint but that doesn't make him an artist. Anyone can learn how to get some tracks and put them together but that doesn't make them a recording engineer. This person right now just needs more volume. Most programs like cubase have a mastering multiband compressor with presets. He should run his mix through that and A/B them to see which one give him what he wants for now. Mastering his mix won't hurt it if he saves a copy first, then masters one of them. He needs to practice doing. Then he can learn what he wants. Imagine him trying to work with a mastering engineer when he has no idea what he wants? (I can tell because he uses the word "louder") What he means is "more like finished CD's that he buys.". To do all this right he needs to learn these things and the differences between them.
1- Gainstaging
2- Mixing (starting with the bass and vocal first, then drums, then other instruments.)
3- EQing (Using a parametric; cutting out the bad as opposed to boosting the good)
4- creating the mix as a separate file.
5- Copying the mix
6- Using the multiband compressor with A/B tests.
This will help most amateurs get what they are doing right. Most amateurs have never been near a real recording studio and have never read anything in the recording magazines or bought a book on recording. One thing is always true. Books are cheaper than the recording equipment and far more valuable. I wish a lot of musicians would go buy the books first; then you wouldn't see so many questions here about why this won't work with that.
I copied all of the fundamental articles from all of my recording magazines; things like frequencies and gainstaging; things that never change, and put them into three large binders. I also asked questions every time I worked in a studio. I built the first home recording studio in NYC and was recording live with MOTU Digital Performer while their program still used line drawings for mixing boards. It took me three years before I had something to play for an engineer. He was amazed I had managed to get that level of quality in the recording. I told him I stopped trying so hard. I let the mustic do the work and just tried to capture things accurately. So, try each of the things suggested here but do it on copies of your mix. See what works for you. Learn as much as you can, both by doing and by reading and trying it out. Good Luck and welcome to the world of recording.
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Rod Norman, first I want to thank you for your post and your response and objective review, and not because you felt I was right (no need of patting me on the back lol) but because its helps encourage education. I really dont like saying this because I like to encourage learning at all stages both physically and mentally but if you would agree most people that just want to start a project studio and go buy things should not. They really should go read first. In most cases just the post it self you can "gauge" the knowledge level of some of these young engineers just based on their first question. Im sorry but if your asking what is an EQ, im not going to give you steps on EQ'ing a mix Bus and mostly likely im not going to give you advice to go spend $1,000's on equipment when you just posted you had no prior knowledge of an EQ. Most questions have multiple answers that follow that one question (not to mention 100's of different view points and opinion from all of us here who try and render aid). You answering question 1 with answers 1,2 & 3 is just going to make them even more confused than question 1, cause now they have even more questions just from the 1st answer. Then you find your self in these never endless cycle of giving a lifetime of knowledge and experience through a keyboard and forum in less then a few hours its just impossible you can just wake up and start music production/engineering and if you try you will get frustrated, highly frustrated quickly.
 
But like you said in your post try and give both physically & mental knowledge so then can try it, which helps alot by all means I am never saying "NO YOU CANT DO WHAT WE DO GO STICK YOUR NOSE IN A BOOK" All the music engineering knowledge is ours MUUAAHHHAAA!!! Even tho most young eng's think that way bout us like were apart of some secret society Bones & Music (lol some will get that lol). I do know some here try and save them from their selves and do not encourage a project studio purchase but education first but its hard were like parents of orphans we really dont own or control we try and guide them in the right direction some want to go over the cliff. They wont no baby steps, Eddie Kramer Mixing techniques NOW!! and some of use readily give the rope to these young engineers to hang themselves. Some OP's snatch it out of our hand and hang themselves which is totally not on us when were trying to give solid advice and encourage baby steps which we ourselves went through knowing that they are so vital to the art of what we do. (I admit to a few hangings my self but all at the OP's discretion) I do encourage them to work hands on giving them the techniques and what not but in some cases when I can tell their knowledge base isn't as strong I try, TRRRRYYYY to encourage book knowledge. I still consider my self a young engineer im only 8 years in and I still read alot and I still ask questions ALOT its the only way you can grow and stay good cause in this business your only good as your last mix.
 
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Rod Norman said:
1- Gainstaging
2- Mixing (starting with the bass and vocal first, then drums, then other instruments.)
3- EQing (Using a parametric; cutting out the bad as opposed to boosting the good)
4- creating the mix as a separate file.
5- Copying the mix
6- Using the multiband compressor with A/B tests.

And...

I copied all of the fundamental articles from all of my recording magazines; things like frequencies and gainstaging; things that never change, and put them into three large binders. I also asked questions every time I worked in a studio.
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Is this just because of the theroy "All Great Minds Think Alike" or is it just because both of our last name start with norman. Im sensing some family lineage ties in ancestry back from King William "The Conqueror" lol.

did he say GAIN STAGING? GAIN STAGING! The beautiful word that births a mix. The fact you even stated that shows your expertise, knowledge, and skill. All highly respected. And he knew where to put it in steps (breaking of the glass followed by jewish song and dance :guitar:) Again you have my highest respect Mr.Norman

As far as keeping record I do the same mine are saved from online magazine as pdf I cant count how many Mix magazine sound on sound magazine pdfs I have, my gf saw how many SOS pdf articles I bought over the last 3 years and she said I spent almost the same amount on her engagement ring. :eek:... that either makes me a cheapo who doesnt have alot of stock in our marriage or one mother **** smart engineer lol. (I mean they are only a $1 each :laughings:)

Not only did you keep all the fundamental for notes but hear is the clincher Rod, do you still go back over them from time to time? If you do Im gonna need you to send me your number my dad told me stories of an illegitimate son out there long lost brother of mine.
 
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This whole thread reeks of complication.

Mr. Norman, I am not doubting your intelligence and skills, nor am I doubting yours Jay. Hell, both of you probably might be better at mixing and more knowledgeable at audio than I.

This is a good observation.

The problem is the question. There's no information except the levels before clipping and the volume on his car CD player.
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Why the hell are we talking about proper mixing then? Well.... it could be beneficial, sure, but why was I berated for my terse answer?

It's funny, the OP probably hasn't read anything past my first post. I haven't seen him return.
 
CrowsofFritz said:
This whole thread reeks of complication.Mr. Norman, I am not doubting your intelligence and skills, nor am I doubting yours Jay. Hell, both of you probably might be better at mixing and more knowledgeable at audio than I.
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And you migt be a better mixer and engineer than me crow. Me and RAMI fight all the time but he is a better engineer than I am because he has more knowledge and more experience Steer as well. For me it wasnt bout that, i care less who is better everyone is there own individual and mix to they're liking, who are we to say who is truly correct :confused: "Mixing is as relative as Einstein's theory" - Maserati.

CrowsofFritz said:
Why the hell are we talking about proper mixing then? Well.... it could be beneficial, sure, but why was I berated for my terse answer?
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It was brought up as a step in my post, I was just cheering because someone else thought it was just important and had it in their steps same way I did. I feel good when I do the same thing as other engineers cause it lets me know im following the right lead. In this argument gain staging isn't beneficial at all your right. As for me I work in a big chain mixing is a big chain of events to me I cant talk and explain one without the other just me. You ask me a question you might get 6 answers just the way I am. Specially with my experience I know their gonna ask them anyway.

I didn't feel I or anyone berated you answers it was a debate Crow.

CrowsofFritz said:
It's funny, the OP probably hasn't read anything past my first post. I haven't seen him return.
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If he does he will have a world of knowledge from just one question. You learn from debates simple as that specially in here cause you got guys that are WAYYYY smarter than us. You should talk to shop with Massive & Steer :eek:???
 
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