Going Mobile Project

sweetbeats said:
Okay. Three follow up questions now:

1. So garage band is a stereo line level source with virtual drum and bass tracks, yes? And you are using two tape tracks to record that, correct?

2. You have 5 sources, one of them stereo (if I'm understanding correctly about garage band output), but 4 tape tracks...how are you mixing the guitar pickup, condenser and dynamic microphones on to the two remaining tape tracks?

3. How do the guitar pickup, condenser and dynamic mics connect to the mixer (i.e. does the pickup hook right up to one of the 1/4" TS MIC input jacks on the M-106, are you using an external preamp for the condenser mic, the output of which is connected to an RCA LINE input on the M-106, etc...be specific)
Click to expand...

1. Yes and Yes

2. Sometimes I use the guitar pickup, sometimes the condenser mic. For this example lets say four sources are Guitar condenser microphone, voice dynamic microphone, stereo line level with virtual drum and virtual bass

3. Virtual bass (Track 3) and drum (Track 4), and dynamic mic (Track 1) all go 1/4" Mic input jacks on the M-106. The condensor goes into a mic preamp (M-Audio Audiobuddy) on Track 2. The output is a 1/4 inch jack from the preamp output connected to 1/4 Mic input jack on the M-106.
 
1. How does the guitar pickup connect to the mixer?

2. Why are you using mic inputs for the line level sources of the virtual tracks and the audiobuddy output?

3. What are you using to record your stereo mixdown?

4. And you have one mono compressor you are using for what again?

5. Do you have any other effects devices you are using?

Thanks for your patience with all my questions. With the information I'll be able to give you some detailed guidance on how I would hook everything up, and how to use the controls and features of the M-106 during the different stages of the recording process.
 
And to iron out a semantical/terminology detail, I had asked if the garage band source was stereo, and you answered yes. By your later responses I think the answer should be no. You have bass isolated on one channel, and drums isolated on another, yes? That would be two mono sources on the PC's stereo output, but that doesn't make the source stereo. It's a small but important detail to me because the nature of the source(s) may impact how best to get it/them to the tape deck.
 
sweetbeats said:
And to iron out a semantical/terminology detail, I had asked if the garage band source was stereo, and you answered yes. By your later responses I think the answer should be no. You have bass isolated on one channel, and drums isolated on another, yes? That would be two mono sources on the PC's stereo output, but that doesn't make the source stereo. It's a small but important detail to me because the nature of the source(s) may impact how best to get it/them to the tape deck.
Click to expand...

Ok.... the way I use it is lay down a bass track and drum track in GarageBand. Then to put it onto two tracks, I pan the bass hard right, and pan the drums hard left, then hook it up to the mixer with one of these.

IMG_0395.JPG

IMG_0396.JPG

.....now..... onto your questions....
 
1. How does the guitar pickup connect to the mixer? I use a 1/4 inch to 1/4 inch patch cable and hook it into the MIC IN

2. Why are you using mic inputs for the line level sources of the virtual tracks and the audiobuddy output?
Probably because I started with a Portastudio and have always just hooked it up that way.

3. What are you using to record your stereo mixdown?
Right now I'm using my laptop's soundcard with a twin RCA to 3.5mm jack with Audacity. I recently found a $20 Uher 8000 Reel to Reel I am going to work on this winter for mixdown.

4. And you have one mono compressor you are using for what again?
I've used this very little. I have used it for my voice in the past. I was playing with it the other day and really liked how it sounded with the drums. My thought is I could use it on one track during tracking, and another track during mixing.

5. Do you have any other effects devices you are using? I do have a reverb (nanoverb), and a delay/looper pedal I like to use. I've used the delay pedal for voice and guitar before.

Thanks for your patience with all my questions. no...no.....no.... It is I who should be thanking you, and everybody else for the patience shown here.... :)
 
Cory..... That is flat out awesome!!!! There is a lot to chew on there, and I'll take some time to chew on some of it tomorrow. I can't thank you enough for your time!!

I think I'm going to go through and block diagram everything you did on the video to try and understand it better. I'll start going through it on coffee, but before I'm through it all, I'll probably need to switch to beer :D

Man that was great!!!!
 
Glad its of interest.

I know its a lot of info. And please realize before shooting that video I had looked at the 234 manual and M-106 manual several times testing my idea in my head, so its not just you that has to take time to wrap his head around it. :D

Note: I still feel like I need to think through the potential for a feedback loop with the setup.

I know one such area is with the I/O of the PC. The PC output comes into the mixer on Channels 5 & 6 LINE inputs, and the PC input is sourced from the PGM 1 & 2 output. If ever you are playing back audio from the PC and are monitoring the PC inputs, if you route mixer channels 5 & 6 to PGM 1 & 2 *BAM* you'll get a feedback loop. I suggest if you need to monitor the output of the PC while the DAW software is recording you either route mixer channels 5 & 6 to PGM 3 & 4 and select PGM 3 & 4 as your monitor source in the monitor select switchrack (but then the PC outputs will be present at 234 inputs 3 & 4 also...which may not be a problem since you would be just playing tape tracks at that point while mixing down, and the source select switch on the 234 would be in the down "TAPE" position...signals at the 234 inputs are thus ignored/go nowhere...), or better yet assign mixer channels 5 & 6 to none of the PGM groups, latch the LINE source switches by the AUX controls on channels 5 & 6 in the down position, and then select AUX as the source in the monitor select switchrack. The signals will be heard in mono, but at least this would provide basic monitor function of the DAW outputs during mastering "on-the-fly."

And of course, once you get your head around it, you'll want to decide whether or not the configuration actually works for your workflow. My suggestions are not the "right" way to do it, just one idea.
 
I just spent a couple of hours watching your video and making drawings. I will honestly say that I think I am on the verge of beginning to possibly understand it :). I'm going to reconfigure the mixer and hopefully try it out on Thursday...

I do have a question..... Since the output is controlled through the 234 when I'm overdubbing, I can essentially set up a sub mix in my headphones using the 234 output controls right? for example, let's say I put a click track on track 1 and Drums on track 2 (both on GarageBand), I could submix the click track to be louder to keep the rhythm, and quiet the drums so I can still hear the fills to know where I am right?

I know one such area is with the I/O of the PC. The PC output comes into the mixer on Channels 5 & 6 LINE inputs, and the PC input is sourced from the PGM 1 & 2 output. If ever you are playing back audio from the PC and are monitoring the PC inputs, if you route mixer channels 5 & 6 to PGM 1 & 2 *BAM* you'll get a feedback loop. I suggest if you need to monitor the output of the PC while the DAW software is recording you either route mixer channels 5 & 6 to PGM 3 & 4 and select PGM 3 & 4 as your monitor source in the monitor select switchrack (but then the PC outputs will be present at 234 inputs 3 & 4 also...which may not be a problem since you would be just playing tape tracks at that point while mixing down, and the source select switch on the 234 would be in the down "TAPE" position...signals at the 234 inputs are thus ignored/go nowhere...), or better yet assign mixer channels 5 & 6 to none of the PGM groups, latch the LINE source switches by the AUX controls on channels 5 & 6 in the down position, and then select AUX as the source in the monitor select switchrack. The signals will be heard in mono, but at least this would provide basic monitor function of the DAW outputs during mastering "on-the-fly."
Click to expand...

I may have a much more elegant solution. My computer cable does double duty as input and output....and I only have one..... :D
 
You are absolutely correct regarding the utilization of the CUE mixer on the 234 during overdubs. It gives complete control of your playback monitor mix, and just to reiterate, using the input source select and record enable switches on the 234, you have control of the CUE mixer sources to be any combination of individual track playback and/or sources to be recorded on any tracks during overdubbing.

Example: you have a click track recorded on track 1, and drums on track 2, and you want to record guitar to track 3 and vocal to track 4 while monitoring playback of tracks 1 & 2.

Let's say you have your guitar and vocal mic on channels 1 & 2 of the M-106, you would (assuming you have things connected up like in the video) set your trims and fader levels, assign channels 1 & 2 to PGM groups 3-4, PAN channel 1 hard L (this will isolate the guitar to PGM 3), and PAN channel 2 hard R (isolating the vocal to PGM 4). Adjust your signal levels to the 234 tracks 3 & 4 using the PGM 3 & 4 faders. Then over on the 234 in the OUTPUT SELECT section make sure the INPUT/TAPE switch is in the up position (TAPE), and the SYNC/INPUT also in the up position (INPUT). With those switches in those positions, your record enable switches control if the source of the respective CUE mixer channel is the corresponding input, or the corresponding tape track. So latch the record enable switches for tracks 3 & 4 (because you are going to record on those tracks), and that should automatically switch the CUE mixer sources for CUE mixer channels 3 & 4 to your guitar and vocal respectively, while the CUE mixer sources for CUE mixer channels 1 & 2 should be your click and drums playing back on tracks 1 & 2 respectively. Adjust each of the 4 stacked OUTPUT control pots on the 234 CUE mixer channels 1-4 for the desired level and position in your stereo monitor field...you should be able to select PGM 1-2 as the source in the M-106 monitor select switchrack and hear your 234 CUE mix. Try it. Let me know if it works.

And I whole-heartedly approve of your "elegant" feedback loop prevention system for the computer I/O...idiot-proof! :D
 
bachelorb said:
ugh..... I think I just answered my own question..... I can submix through the M-106 :facepalm:
Click to expand...

Think through this...if you are playing back the click and drums, how are you going to monitor that playback?

You would have to set the source of M-106 channels 1 & 2 to LINE if you were going to setup your monitor mix using the M-106. Now, with the source SELECT switches set to LINE instead of MIC we aren't sourcing the guitar and vocal anymore...so you would have to make sure the guitar and vocal are plugged into mixer channels 3 & 4...now we are re-patching. Blech.

Study my last post. You'll get it.

The M-106's purpose in this configuration is handling inputs and outputs during tracking, overdubbing and mixdown, the 234's purpose is recording and reproducing tape tracks, and controlling your monitor mix.
 
Think through this...if you are playing back the click and drums, how are you going to monitor that playback?
Click to expand...

Gotcha..... I get a 1/2 hour drive every other day to think about this stuff, then I sit in a waiting room and post something stupid..... I'm not sure I'll quit doing that, but rest assured I am starting to get this mixer down thanks to you!
 
IMG_0402.JPG

Alright.... finally got some time today to double check the diagram (.....and correct it.....)

I do have another question. So are you saying with the m-106, if I push the line button, and have the aux out hooked to a headphone amp, Anyone using the headphone amp could here the mix?

Please don't take the video down without me knowing Cory, there is so much that is good in there, I probably need to watch it twenty times to get it all..... I've probably been through it about ten.......
 
Thanks Cory..... That helped a bunch!!! Sorry for the delay here, but things have been fast and furious around here. We are about to head 1500 miles to buy a house... with a 30 x 20 foot room all for me!! ..... I have a feeling the "perfect analog studio" thread is about to get a workout.....

What you showed me in that video was exactly what I was hoping it would do for overdubbing. Now I also have options vs the cue mixer on the 234.

Thanks,

Brad
 
Yes, that's right. For a small format mixer, the M-106 makes up for its 2+2 monitoring limitation with other features.

Let me know if you have additional questions.

Good luck with moving/home purchase and all that. It can be a real pain.
 
Well SB..... it was a real pain.....
But we are in and i'm trying to get callouses again because I haven't played in so long. Things might be getting close to normal....

All except my going mobile project looks very small in its new home.......

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