Getting the run around....

Hey Squashboy,
I began the Sjoko2 mastering offer scam post and I am in the same boat as your friend/client and have been waiting since August for the finished product. I heard from Sjoko on 11/14 via email and from the email he seemed to be working on my CD. I have not heard back since then but in his email he indicated he had to go back to the hospital. I see that he has posted on this website on 11/22 and 11/25 or 11/26. Maybe we will get a Christmas present from him and maybe not. This forum is our only recourse against him if he does not come through as he offerred. As his post of 7/7 offering his services stated, "Just a thought - bet your fanny I'll do a good job - or get slated here." We will have to wait and see. If we get our mastered material, then we can thank him. If we dont, we can chalk one up to experience in the music business and one up to internet relationships.
 
Re: "I mailed it yesterday"

Demand trackable shipping. UPS, USPS, FEDEX, they ALL have it. That will flush out that bluff every time...

Queue
 
Gidge said:
right or wrong, this forum isnt the place to do your dirty laundry.....
Click to expand...

Gidge, given the pedestal Sjoko2 has been placed on around here (for good reason), I disagree. Some people come to HR to learn, some to teach, some to relax and do what humans do best, and some to participate in all of the above. I think most people are lead here, though, because they want to learn, and to do that, there has to be a certain amount of trust and honesty involved.

The anonymity online communities provide does not preclude one from conducting himself responsibly, and the best corners of cyberspace are full of people who understand that. For all I know Sjoko is such a person, but that doesn't give him or anyone else scrutiny-free status.

Squashboy didn't lash out irresponsibly, and he wasn't the first person to cite a problem with the services of Sjoko2. If he can't come here with a rational beef, where can he go?

I just wonder what reactions would be if the tables were turned. What if Sjoko2, Bruce, Ed, or some other reputable member had a beef with the services of a newbie?
 
Bullshit.

Gidge said:
Right or wrong, this forum isnt the place to do your dirty laundry.....
Click to expand...

It also isn't the place for people to solicit business and money for a product that isn't intended to be delivered...

It is very reasonable that Squash posted here to see if others had any troubles, and where the story is at now.... After all the offer DID ORIGINATE in these forums..?? Huh??

Also, Gidge, above you mentioned that SJOKO has a credibility and trust in the business, and that you don't know squash from Adam....

Ok Gidge... So what is this SJOKO persons real name.. Huh??? If you know him so well... who is he....??

And where are these Credibility statements.... From his Profile?? or from his website..... Yeah I have webspace also, and If I want, I could put that Im a Airline pilot on my webpage... Hell i could even buy a few airplane manuals, and start giving people advice on flying techniques..... Not to hard to do.....

All I need is my thick manual and computer in front of me....When a question pops up... All I need to do is find the corresponding chapter, and away I go...!!! Im a PRO!

Im "new" here, but have been lurking for a long time before I registered and I feel you are giving SJOKO Credit, for things that you have no proof on....

Who knows.... Hell i don't know...

BG
 
Vurt said:


I just wonder what reactions would be if the tables were turned. What if Sjoko2, Bruce, Ed, or some other reputable member had a beef with the services of a newbie?
Click to expand...

Never Mind Being flamed.... you would be BURNED!..... Unfortunately post counting and "knowledge" do put a person on a Pedestal..... and they get automatically trusted....

Bullshit unfortuantely talks very well around here... All one can do is try and swim around it, and keep from drowning.....


SQUASH...
Upon futher inspection, I have found that SJOKO's studio or "company" is called NGS or NSG.. productions... something like that.... It is based in Santa Barbara... With the Plethora of Equipment and credibility he "has"... That company will surely be listed with the city's business licence bureau

Give them a call....

If it ends up to be non exsistent and you confront SJOKO you may (or may not) hear some bullshit thing that he hasn't registered yet, but anyone who owns the big Pro-Tools and the other gear we have heard him mention, that would be tremedous insurance and tax write-offs, one would HAVE to register for business licsencing... or is very stupid and throwing money out the window....

(All of this post is based on the idea that squash is telling the truth and there is a scam going on.... Keep in mind that it is possible, that it is the other way around...)
BG
 
Its a good thing that this thread was posted.

I am a recording newbie and I was seriously considering asking one of the folks here to master my work....

You know... its not just one complaint, but 2 for the same thing on the same person... I dont even know who this sjoko fello is.. but I know now not to do business with him.

So thank you for the thread.

demensia.
 
Queue said:
Re: "I mailed it yesterday"

Demand trackable shipping. UPS, USPS, FEDEX, they ALL have it. That will flush out that bluff every time...

Queue
Click to expand...

I thought this would common sense? Hello, trackable, insurable and definitely contractural. Don't send money to anyone until you've got a legally binding contract to what your purchasing, goods or services.
Its not only for protecting "squashboy" but its also protecting Mr.S from 3rd party intervention. A postal worker could have intercepted it for himself, as well as if its not packaged correctly could just plain get lost. I think you'd be wiser next time to ask for a contract and registered mail. You could go as far as 3rd party, registered COD, he sends you the disk, you give the money to the mailman via cashiers check, Ive bought Amp heads and Cabinets from DJ's RnR out of Chicago that way, if you don't have a cashiers check the Delivery guy/gal says sorry and walks away. People you need to earn your trust through trial and error, and well alot of members might be more suspicious, but that will go away after a few transactions, but I would still use registered mail. My best friend and I had a mail fiasco with a $8000 Downhill racing mountain bike, lets say a UPS person no longer works at UPS. If we hadn't been careful he would have lost a huge investment. My suggestion is to re-send Mr.S the exact same material, this time using more wisdom, and since you wouldn't really gain anything from having 2 copies of the samething, he should be more than happy to honor the mastering deal since he's been paid already. A little time extra to repair a reputation as well as maybe more business would be in Mr.S best professional interest.


Peace,
Dennis
 
Update: Still no CD today.

I don't think it was a scam, if by "scam" we mean that he intended to deceive me. I think his intentions were geniune, and that he really does have all the equipment and knows how to use it. I also think he really thought he was doing us a favor by making the offer.

However, why we still don't have my CD is a mystery to me. Obviously, there were health problems initially, which I fully understand, and I'm not ruling out the incompetence of the US Mail system. But four months after we sent him the CD, I sure don't feel like the "favor" has been in our favor.

Yes, in hindsight, using a contract and asking for trackable shipping would have been good, but like I said, you do all business based on a certain trust, and next time I'll know better.

But what is Sjoko2's side on all of this? My guess is he feels like he took on these projects as a gesture of goodwill, a favor to us, a chance for us to get something that normally costs tons of money for very little. Let's say, for example, that I agree to record someone at my house for free, as a favor. Now, certainly, they couldn't demand that I record them RIGHT AWAY, that I drop everything to do them this favor. And if I got sick, they would have even less reason to demand I follow through on my promise. I would feel like saying, "look, I'm doing you a favor, so you'll just have to let me do it on my own schedule." And if they got impatient, I'd get mad!

All that I understand. I can empathize with that. But if FOUR months went by, and I still hadn't followed through on my promise, I think most friends would start to doubt whether or not I actually meant what I said, maybe even wonder if it wouldn't have been better to pay the big bucks to get it done in the first place. And when 240 clams are involved. Well, that I just don't get, especially since he cashed the check so long ago.

Like I said, I don't think he is trying to screw us, but we're getting screwed all the same.

And Gidge, if this forum isn't the place to "do your dirty laundry," then what the heck is this forum for? Why is my review of Sjoko2's services "dirty laundry" but not my review of something else? If I review some new software, and say that it doesn't do what it says it does, am I bringing in "dirty laundry?" What counts as "dirty laundry?" Is posting here and offering something, and then not delivering it, somehow "clean," but when someone complains here it's all of a sudden "dirty?" Does that make sense to anyone? I think it takes a special leap of imagination to call my complaint "dirty laundry." Sorry, Gidge, no offense to you, but my beef is totally valid, and if anyone learns from my mistakes, then the forum is certainly better off for my having complained.

--Squashboy.
 
Squash,
I understand your concerns regarding this issue, no probs.........BUT if it was to be posted in HR Forums, then maybe the Dragon's Cave (a kind of free for all place) would have been better.
BTW, when did you last speak to Sjoko regarding this?

Peace........ChrisO :cool:
 
Just to clarify....

Sjoko DOES have a real name... he is one of the good guys... his skills and resources are credible... and while I understand your wanting the CD, Squashboy, I'm pretty sure he's not messing with anyone....

Budget mastering as favor, as you pointed out, can't take precedence over normal "business" operation.... and dealing with health issues... I'd say you should cut him some slack......... not to mention the very strong possibility that snail mail is even more snail than usual........

One lesson to learn - have important items mailed via courier so that it can be tracked.......... it's the only way to go, and the onus is on the client to request that (since it adds to the cost of the final product!)

My opinion......

Bruce
 
If Sjoko wants to let you guys know who he is, he'll tell ya...thats not my place.....I can tell you this...just to have a guy of his stature listen to your music, much less master it, is an honor......

btw, the mixing/mastering forum is for just that...mixing/mastering questions.....mud slinging is in the Cave.....
 
the latest

I just got off the phone with Sjoko2, and he said that there was a mix up at the studio. Apparently, the interns that he has hired to take over the studio were supposed to mail everything in a certain "pile." When the pile was gone, Sjoko2 assumed that the mail had gone out. But it hadn't. So he says he went to the post office himself today and mailed it. I asked him what time he mailed it: 4:30 pm. I asked him what post office he mailed it from: Montecito. I asked him what it cost to mail it: $3.75. I asked him what color the package is, and what exactly it had in it: Brown padded envelope with 2 CDs in it.

So, again, we'll see if it gets here. This will be the fourth time Sjoko2 has promised that the CD was in the mail. Don't worry folks, I've learned my lesson. I'm not asking for any more favors, and I will always get a contract and trackable shipping from now on.

As for being extra lucky to have Sjoko2 even grace our album with his expertise, TRUST ME, I'm more anxious to believe you than anyone! I just haven't seen the evidence yet.

Live an learn I guess,

Squashboy.
 
I would say that if I had $240 bucks ripped from me, I wouldn't hesitate to *taint* this forum (where the offer was initiated) to try and get some resolve. Good grief... as mentioned on the other thread, Sjoko was a jerk to me too....and many people (which all seem to have high post counts...which seem important for credibilty for some reason) all came to his defense. I'd like to know, WHO HAS RECEIVED a finished mastered CD...and was it any good. BTW, anyone can go out and spend mom and dads money ...or even spend the price of a modest house...and have a kick ass studio by this boards standards. Shoot, even the *famed* Soundcraft Ghost is only a couple grand...not really, expensive to ALOT of people. A couple of ADATS, a Mackie and a couple grand of rack stuff, with a dozen or so mics, and a pair of $2000 speakers isn't much...compared to what you might spend on other stuff....like a boat, plane, girlfriend...argh!!! So...$50000 worth of equipment doesn't buy credibilty for me. Shoot...if you're a serious guitar player...you've got that just in your axes....without nary a mic cable.
And...I'll attempt to make my point again...business is business...and you treat it as such. 4 months and no response is theft in my mind. but...maybe I should rack up my post count to a couple thousand, praise the all mighty mastering gods of this BBS, and getting ripped off will not REALLY be getting ripped off... It'll just be waiting...or being impatient...or some other BS like that.
 
oh...and Squashboy...I got the "mixup in the front office" routine too. I really hope you get your CD. I think you expressed your thoughts well, and you deserve NOT to get the kind of treatment you are getting. I'll be anxious to hear the updates on your situation.
 
Gidge said:
If Sjoko wants to let you guys know who he is, he'll tell ya...thats not my place.....I can tell you this...just to have a guy of his stature listen to your music, much less master it, is an honor......

btw, the mixing/mastering forum is for just that...mixing/mastering questions.....mud slinging is in the Cave.....
Click to expand...

WITHOUT fear of screwing with the etiqette around here, I'll ask a friggin mixing/mastering question...without being in the [a] friggin Afgan cave....

Who got a CD back from Sjoko in a timely fashion, had a professional business relationship, and liked their finished product? And secondly, what SPECIFICALLY makes it an HONOR to have music listened/mastered by Sjoko? Besides looking at posted internet pictures of a studio, I'm still at a loss.
 
hey mixmkr,

I wonder whatever happened to the first CD you sent me... :eek:
(mixups happen to the best of us :rolleyes: )

Sjoko is certainly regretting the day he made the offer to master stuff here. I will agree that he has only made matters worse with the non-response and wishy-washy replies. Surgery can be distracting...

I also believe that Squashboy will eventually get his master and will be happy.

Queue

(is rooting for the Hollywood ending...)
 
mixmkr said:
I would say that if I had $240 bucks ripped from me, I wouldn't hesitate to *taint* this forum (where the offer was initiated) to try and get some resolve. Good grief... as mentioned on the other thread, Sjoko was a jerk to me too....and many people (which all seem to have high post counts...which seem important for credibilty for some reason) all came to his defense. I'd like to know, WHO HAS RECEIVED a finished mastered CD...and was it any good. BTW, anyone can go out and spend mom and dads money ...or even spend the price of a modest house...and have a kick ass studio by this boards standards. Shoot, even the *famed* Soundcraft Ghost is only a couple grand...not really, expensive to ALOT of people. A couple of ADATS, a Mackie and a couple grand of rack stuff, with a dozen or so mics, and a pair of $2000 speakers isn't much...compared to what you might spend on other stuff....like a boat, plane, girlfriend...argh!!! So...$50000 worth of equipment doesn't buy credibilty for me. Shoot...if you're a serious guitar player...you've got that just in your axes....without nary a mic cable.
And...I'll attempt to make my point again...business is business...and you treat it as such. 4 months and no response is theft in my mind. but...maybe I should rack up my post count to a couple thousand, praise the all mighty mastering gods of this BBS, and getting ripped off will not REALLY be getting ripped off... It'll just be waiting...or being impatient...or some other BS like that.
Click to expand...

Thats some articulate writing there.

Just as $50,000 of gear doesnt prove a damn thing about ones recording ability, high post counts dont either. Ill say further that technical understanding of recording does not imply anything about the quality, creativity and aesthetic nuance of ones mixes.
High post counts mean that people have time on their hands. If anything it kinda detracts from the persons credibility, IMO. There are exceptions though.
 
Mix,
you asked whether (to rephrase it) anyone had a totally satisfying deal with Sjoko..........I can't answer in regard to the "mastering offer" BUT....... I remember when Sjoko took the time to listen to some stuff on mp3.com and pass comment, even though I didn't directly ask him to........I remember all the times he has given good advice to others on the forums..........All of this given selflessly. I have a fair idea who he is and know some that he has worked with, and knowing their stature in the music/rock world leaves me with no doubt about Sjoko's ability.
We all fall on difficult times during our lives, where it is almost impossible to do what we intended, when we intended...........so maybe a little less angst and a bit more slack would be in order.

Time will tell........

ChrisO :cool:
 
I will tell you this much... Sjoko's health issues are not small-time - they are serious and they started shortly after he made the mastering offer....

Dealing with serious health issues is an all-consuming process - if you've never dealt with them - you wouldn't know (but take my word for it - if you HAVE dealt with them, then you DO know and you would'nt be posting these grievances!)... and unfortunately - from a timing perspective - it happened immediately (within days) after he made the mastering offer.... and it definitely impacted the offer. Unfortunately, no mastering is possible if you can't hear what you're listening to.... and he's STILL undergoing surgical procedures....

So FUCK guys -- give him a break......... yes - if you commit to something, you should try to meet it, but sometimes, there are extenuating circumcstances that don't allow that to happen...
Serious health issues (especially potentially fatal ones) really impact one's life.... it casts an all-consuming shadow on every aspect of your life, so yeah... some things get put on hold............. even business if it's serious enough (and it was!)

Jeezus.... this is what pisses me off... someone puts in time in trying to help people, gives excellent advice time and time again... probably saved many people from bad gear purchases allowing them to not waste their money... and yet, when an unavoidable situation arises for the person to deal with -- people start in with questioning credibility, business practices, professionalism.... Would you do the same thing to Ed, Shailat, Skippy, John, Track Rat, Ametth, myself, or the other pros here? You'd think after posting for years, that "credibility" is not an issue based simply on the CONTENT of people's posts (not the "count")..........

Let's get a fuckin' grip here please.........

:mad:

Bruce
 
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