First song ever recorded, some feedback please?

T

TheAquired

New member
Hi. I posted this in the newbie section and was redirected here. so could you please tell me what you think of this song? It is an original from my band, Out Of Season. this is my first time recording music. Every kind of feedback welcome!
Thank you!
 
The song is good but the production needs some work. A lot of it sounds like midi. Not necessarily a bad thing but it doesn't seem to suit the musical style. The vocals could use some thickening. maybe a slap back delay and a room verb. There are some pitch issues in the singing. I don't mean to sound harsh but I'm just saying this recording has room for improvement. Very good for a first recording! :D
 
Doesnt sound harsh to me! Well there is midi in there. The strings and the drums are in fact midi. The rest is just me playing my instruments. Yes, the vocals are the part that I really need some help with. The guy who sings has the thinnest voice in the world, so I really dont know how to thicken it up. I actually have eqed it a little and its thicker than the original recording, but any tips on how to thicken it up would be great! And the pitch issues drive me crazy. We did about 40 takes on the singing (i'm really not joking). But seeing as we're only 17 I guess we still have to get a proper control over our voices.
 
kick is missing slap and sounds kind of "hollow"... i'd start by looking for some EQ boosting around 5-6k and maybe a bit at 1k.... cut around 250 and 500 and roll off anything lower than 40.

Drums sound low in the mix, especially the snare.

When recording keep this in mind... the drums set the stage... they determine the "room" your in... quality drum sound, in my opinion, is the most important part.

This sounds like the mix is a bit bass/vocal dominant, but to the point beyond acceptable.

The bass i'd bring down a bit, boost around 1k... cut out some mids to tighten it up.

Guitar should come up a bit (or it might be fixed by bringing down the bass).. what i can hear with the guitar is it sounds like its going to be a sharp sound... make sure you dont EQ the high end too much and get a lot of harsh string sounds.

As for vocals, there's definitely a better take in there for you but it all depends on how serious this recording thing is for you. if you take the time to do it right then there's a lot more options you can do.
 
Well, it sounds better than my first recording. That being said, you guys have a long ways to go.

As has been said, your big issues are fake-sounding midi instruments; thin, pitchy vocals; and weak drums.

For the midi, do some research into what instruments you're using find midi instruments that have a reputation for sounding realistic and learn to use them well. ("Humanize" is a term you'll probably hear a lot here.)
For the pitchiness of the vocals. Practice. Take vocal lessons. Sing with confidence. Don't throw out the 39 vocal takes you didn't use. Instead, replace the most egregious mistakes with a patch from one of the other takes. (BTW, your vocalist's falsetto sounds pretty good. Watch the pitch there too though.)
For the thinness of the vocals, record a second take. Make sure that the two vocal takes are identical performances (i.e. your timing and notes have to be spot on, but you can't just copy-paste the track). Designate one as the primary. Make two copies of that take. Apply tons of compression to the first copy, and apply reverb to the second. You now have 4 vocal takes. Adjust the levels of all 4 bearing in mind that you don't want to be able to consciously perceive anything except the original copy of the primary take.
Drums aren't my forte. Go with what CMB said.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Well, it sounds better than my first recording. That being said, you guys have a long ways to go.

As has been said, your big issues are fake-sounding midi instruments; thin, pitchy vocals; and weak drums.

For the midi, do some research into what instruments you're using find midi instruments that have a reputation for sounding realistic and learn to use them well. ("Humanize" is a term you'll probably hear a lot here.)
For the pitchiness of the vocals. Practice. Take vocal lessons. Sing with confidence. Don't throw out the 39 vocal takes you didn't use. Instead, replace the most egregious mistakes with a patch from one of the other takes. (BTW, your vocalist's falsetto sounds pretty good. Watch the pitch there too though.)
For the thinness of the vocals, record a second take. Make sure that the two vocal takes are identical performances (i.e. your timing and notes have to be spot on, but you can't just copy-paste the track). Designate one as the primary. Make two copies of that take. Apply tons of compression to the first copy, and apply reverb to the second. You now have 4 vocal takes. Adjust the levels of all 4 bearing in mind that you don't want to be able to consciously perceive anything except the original copy of the primary take.
Drums aren't my forte. Go with what CMB said.
Click to expand...

Good input, and yes its definitely better than my first ever recording.

Another thing you could do with the vocals, though vomithats suggestion is good... is triple track the vocals and double track the harmonies...

Reason being is it, to me, makes a much wider, bigger voice.

the vocal takes must be similar in tone and timing as vomit said, but this method you can get away with it a bit more which might be good in this case.

Get 3 very very solid takes... or like vomit said, cut them together.. meaning.. you have take A and take B... Take A sounds good in the beginning but terrible in the end... and take B sounds terrible in the beginning but good in the end... then you splice the two together... take the beginning of A and chop of the rest .. and take the end of B and chop of the rest so now you have take A/B... get it? (this can be done with every sentence of the melody if needed, its called "punching in vocals"

ANOTHER thing that will help you sing... most singers sing 50% better when they are singing along to something... so once you get that 1st good "take" (spliced vocals)... but it doesnt sound fluid... then retrack the vocals again while your LISTENING to the franken-take. ever notice that you sing better when you sing to another singer? thats because its kind of a guide and it makes you feel safer and boosts your confidence... ALL things necessary to have a good vocal take.

ANYWAYS.... now that you have those 3 good takes... take the very best one and put it dead in the center. take the other 2 and pan 1 of them hard left and the other hard right and drop the volume of them a pretty good amount... they are morely there for support....

On the 2 side tracks... roll off the EQ at around 200hz... blend the 3 tracks the best you can so it sounds like 1 voice (it wont fully sound like one voice untill its fully in the mix and after this next step)... send all 3 to a Bus called Melody or Vocals or w/e the hell you want... use this bus and treat it as 1 voice.. EQ it, Compress it, and put a touch of reverb on it and there you have it... if done correctly you will have 1 massive/full sounding voice.

Harmonies always sound better properly double tracked.


You dont have to do any of this if you can get 1 solid take, compressed and reverbed and eq'd properly....
 
Thanks everyone for the unbelievably helpful comments! This has been one hell of a learning experience. So here is my update, would love to know what you guys think!



P.S For some reason, I am now not allowed to post URLS so I hope you can see the song, or find it on soundcloud
 
you need to compress those vocals ... .MUCH better.. distorted guitar could rip a bit more. but much improvement for sure.

mixing is a lot like doing a puzzle. levels and instrument blend isnt just about volume faders.... EQing correctly is a HUGE milestone for a young audio engineer.

Very good for your first time buddy, but what i mean by its like a puzzle is clarity comes from lack of muddiness and mud comes from too many instruments sharing the same information range. Every instrument has effects on the EQ spectrum...

Lows - Should be dominated by kick and bass, obviously... what this means is that the guitars bottom frequencies should be cut out to give more space for these instruments to shine. roll off the bottom end of the guitars enough so that it doesnt mess with the meat of the guitars much if any at all (this will also make your guitars sound cleaner. this should be the same practice for vocals aswell.

Mids - this is, in my opinion, the toughest spot to blend since every instrument is affected by the mids and a lot of a tracks "haziness" comes from poorly eq'd mids. it is a very shared space.. vocals, guitars, your midi, toms, snare, drums... all of them will want to share space in the mids... the best advice i can give for Mids is , vocals will sit in the upper mids and you will get some bad muddiness in vocals if you boost the lower mids... a small boost around 1k will really help a vocal presence.

Highs - string noise, vocal noise, overheads, drum hits (sound of sticks/beaters hitting drum heads) reverbs, ambience... all in the highs.. very important to not boost this area too high unless your very very careful or you will create a very unpleasant mix.

all this being said... i think your bass and kick could communicate better.... you said your drums were sequenced so im guessing you cant edit JUST the kick drum, correct? that means you need to find out where the kick drum shines and make sure the bass isnt mudding it up.
 
Thanks for the great feedback. I will be taking this into account when I sit down and EQ this properly. I will try get it done soon, so look out for when I post an update. Thanks everyone!
 
I'm 17 too, I feel you on the singing. The vocalist in my band will often do 15 vocal takes on a single song. Then we comp track the best sections from each take. After that we use the second best of each as a double track. If you kept some of the other good takes you may be able to get a better sound. If you have 70 bucks to spare you could invest in melodyne. However It's not as satisfying as naturally getting a great take.
 
CMB Studios said:
you need to compress those vocals ... .MUCH better.. distorted guitar could rip a bit more. but much improvement for sure.

mixing is a lot like doing a puzzle. levels and instrument blend isnt just about volume faders.... EQing correctly is a HUGE milestone for a young audio engineer.

Very good for your first time buddy, but what i mean by its like a puzzle is clarity comes from lack of muddiness and mud comes from too many instruments sharing the same information range. Every instrument has effects on the EQ spectrum...

Lows - Should be dominated by kick and bass, obviously... what this means is that the guitars bottom frequencies should be cut out to give more space for these instruments to shine. roll off the bottom end of the guitars enough so that it doesnt mess with the meat of the guitars much if any at all (this will also make your guitars sound cleaner. this should be the same practice for vocals aswell.

Mids - this is, in my opinion, the toughest spot to blend since every instrument is affected by the mids and a lot of a tracks "haziness" comes from poorly eq'd mids. it is a very shared space.. vocals, guitars, your midi, toms, snare, drums... all of them will want to share space in the mids... the best advice i can give for Mids is , vocals will sit in the upper mids and you will get some bad muddiness in vocals if you boost the lower mids... a small boost around 1k will really help a vocal presence.

Highs - string noise, vocal noise, overheads, drum hits (sound of sticks/beaters hitting drum heads) reverbs, ambience... all in the highs.. very important to not boost this area too high unless your very very careful or you will create a very unpleasant mix.

all this being said... i think your bass and kick could communicate better.... you said your drums were sequenced so im guessing you cant edit JUST the kick drum, correct? that means you need to find out where the kick drum shines and make sure the bass isnt mudding it up.
Click to expand...

Could someone please properly explain what compressing is and what it is for? As for as I know, all it does is lower the volume of the track. I dont know anything about gates or compressors or anything fancy like that
 
TheAquired said:
Could someone please properly explain what compressing is and what it is for? As for as I know, all it does is lower the volume of the track. I dont know anything about gates or compressors or anything fancy like that
Click to expand...

Compression is essential in modern music and is a big component in making things sound modernly "polished" and loud.

what it does... exactly what it sounds like... it compresses the track its applied to, meaning that it takes the peaks and squishes them down and takes the valley's and boosts them up making a more unified sound... it sounds much more professional.

How it works? i dont know the exact science as to how it does what it does, but i know how to work it... you set the attack and release time, threshold and ratio...

Attack - how quickly the compressor reacts to a transient

Release - how quickly it disengages after a transient engages it.

Threshold - adjusts how much compression is being used and how sensitive it is

Ratio - determines how many db's it compresses.

This probably isnt the BEST explanation, im sure you could find better from other users here or by youtube video...

However... you need to start learning how to use use.

EQ and Compression are both essential to todays music.
 
Really nice, kinda reminds me of Bowie for some reason. I would EQ the vocal a little crisper and ride it down on occasion when it gets a bit too loud.
 
CMB Studios said:
Compression is essential in modern music and is a big component in making things sound modernly "polished" and loud.

what it does... exactly what it sounds like... it compresses the track its applied to, meaning that it takes the peaks and squishes them down and takes the valley's and boosts them up making a more unified sound... it sounds much more professional.

How it works? i dont know the exact science as to how it does what it does, but i know how to work it... you set the attack and release time, threshold and ratio...

Attack - how quickly the compressor reacts to a transient

Release - how quickly it disengages after a transient engages it.

Threshold - adjusts how much compression is being used and how sensitive it is

Ratio - determines how many db's it compresses.

This probably isnt the BEST explanation, im sure you could find better from other users here or by youtube video...

However... you need to start learning how to use use.

EQ and Compression are both essential to todays music.
Click to expand...

Compression is important CMB, no doubt... but getting a good song and potential sound is a better ambition.
 
Can you repost the original so we can A/B them? The vocals sound like they're probably fuller; though now that they're panned closer to center the differences between the two stick out mroe.

A lot of compressors will have a graphical representation showing how they work that explains it pretty well. There will be a diagonal line that starts in the lower left hand corner going up and right. Then there will be a horizontal line (that's your threshhold). When the diagonal line hits the vertical line it starts going up at a shallower angle.

So basically, any signal that's below the threshold volume won't be affected. Anything above the threshold is divided by the compression ratio to make it quieter. Attack and release round out the angle where the threshhold kicks in.
 
Tobe said:
Compression is important CMB, no doubt... but getting a good song and potential sound is a better ambition.
Click to expand...

I agree, i guess im looking at this song/mix as "im given what i've got" kind of thing... but i do believe earlier i mentioned something about getting a better take and really doing some more track work with the vocals.

But yes, an optimal take is .... optimal :P

however, i'd believe it to be a difficult task to find many professional mixes without compression on there, and it doesnt negate my point of... those vocals need compression... badly... and he should learn how to use it.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Can you repost the original so we can A/B them? The vocals sound like they're probably fuller; though now that they're panned closer to center the differences between the two stick out mroe.
Click to expand...

can you clarify what you mean? thanks for the explanations guys, I will try work with EQs and compression's tonight
 
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