EV RE20 or Sennheiser MD441?
- Thread starter dejacky
- Start date
Innovations
New member
Unfortunately I have to agree, while I can see the humor and parody in micsales' posts now, a year or so ago when I was first looking for some information about what mic to buy he might sound authentic enough to get me to make an expensive mistake. Although in this case it would be hard to describe buying either a 441 or a RE20 as a mistake.DJL said:I've complained about that kind of bull crap type posting before and was told to lighten-up and have some fun (but that's not fun, it's crap)... it's a shame, because newbies come here to learn... but... they get bull crap instead.
Or even potentially dangerous, like telling a kid who asked what the standby switch on a guitar amp was for that the best way to cool down tubes is with ice cubes, after telling him they cause cancer. I just hope he doesn't start giving A/C wiring advice.Innovations said:
boingoman said:
I find the post rather funny. What I find dangerous is that anyone would ever come here and get information then ACT on that information without checking other sources. I find newbies who post a message and wait for someone to give them good info to be lazy, good for nothing idiots.
Try doing a search on the web about ANY god damn subject and you will get thousands of webpages written by trusted sources. I find it mind boggling that people still post stupid subjects like
"What is the best mic for $200"
"What is the best pre for $100"
"How do I mic a guitar amp?"
etc.
I find a little humor to be entertaining, like I fine alot of posts entertaining, but it is up to each individual to check ANY information they get here on their own for their own benefit.
Harvey Gerst said:
I hate to say this, but this board is all about misinformation. Do enough reading around here and the newbie gets this message:
You need a great pre-amp. Anything less that $1000 will not do.
Then you need a great mic, a $79 B-1 is the same as a $3K U87, maybe better, we will argue about that one for 100 pages and then attack tha company when we are done
You bought a Behringer mixer? You got rooked/are a fool/cannot make good recordings ever.
You need better cables, may we suggest Monster/Brand X? (each cost ten times more than decent cables)
I don't know about you, Harvey, but I grew up in the 70s when there were no BBs's and no help at all. I bought equipment that I could afford and taught myself/learned from any pros I could find. I worked hard in all of my spare time to make good recordings. I see very little of that here. All I see are people demanding an answer NOW. The they complain when the answer was wrong.
I thought this was a "Home Recording" BBS? What is the definition of Home Recording? I think that is what this BBS needs before it goes any further.
Yeah, sometimes when I'm tired I think about posting a link to google as an answer, or to one of the hundreds of threads comparing sm57s and 58sacorec said:
I definitely believe in caveat emptor, and I do find a lot of the joke posts funny, I'd just hate to see equipment or people get damaged. My favorite are EMERGENCY! EMERGENCY! Read this now! WHat do I do to get that XXXX sound now! We are tracking and need an answer.
Harvey Gerst
New member
I originally came to this board when my name was brought up in a post about Oktava microphones and some misinformation about them was desseminated in the posts that followed. Unfortunately, the posting history only seems to go back 500 posts, so that's all lost now.acorec said:
As you well know, the lack of respect that was ocassionally shown to people here dusturbed me a lot and I left at various times, pretty well disgusted.
The sad truths (that many people who come to this forum fail to realize) are:
1. Experience will usually beat luck most of the time.
2. Cheap stuff WILL often work, but, unless you understand when and how to
use something, it will just sound cheap.
3. There's no one single best mic that will work for everything.
4. SOMETIMES, a cheap mic will work better than an expensive mic for a
particular sound; but too many people here are hoping that will always hold
true on everything - it doesn't. Expensive mics are usually more expensive
because they're built better, and simply sound better on more things.
5. People just starting out have unrealistic expectations as to the results
they can achieve in a home studio with minimal gear, often mediocre
musicianship, and no engineering experience.
Over the years, I've tried to explain how to use what you already own to get better results, by helping people to understand how the equipment works. Sometimes I've had some success in turning on lightbulbs over peoples' heads; other times, I've been less than successful.
Yes a lot of people come here looking for simple answers (like "to get the Beatles vocal sound, turn knob A to 7, knob B to 3, then press record"). If they stick around for a while, they eventually learn that it ain't that simple.
I think that "Home Recording" covers a lot of territory, from people working out of their bedroom who just want to make a recording of themself for whatever reason, to full blown, semi-pro studios that are set up in someone's home.
Whether the studio is set up for money or for fun, I think the regulars here have an obligation to offer assistance where they can; it's kinda like the dues you and I pay to be in the "club" here. Sure, tell somebody when their question is unreasonable, but also tell them why, so they understand that it's not possible to do what they want with the equipment they have.
Equipment is usually the least of a new recordist's problems. Like a lot of people here, I own an Audio Buddy, a VTB-1, and a DMP-3, but I also own 2 Great Rivers, a Drawmer 1960, an RNP, and a Millinia Media SST-1; guess which get used the most?
Without active moderators, things can sometimes get out of hand here. But over the years, this forum has been a tremendous resource to people just starting out in recording. I hope we can continue that heritage.
dejacky said:xstatic,
which model d&r preamps are you referring to?..and who sells them, i.e. where can i find information about these online besides the manufacturer?
AS far as I am aware, there is only one model of D&R preamps. The only ones I know that sell them is the manufacturer. The bottom line is that I own a D&R console (in no way am I affiliated with D&R except that I am an extremely happy D&R user). The preamps in the D&R are incredible. They really hold their own in many many ways against outboard preamps costing far more. If the standalone outboard preamps sound half as good as the ones in my old console, then they are worth far more than $200 a channel. There is info and pricing available on their website
http://www.d-r.nl/
BrettB
New member
Harvey Gerst said:
sorry to burst into this thread, but Harvey, that is beautifully said!
I also often sigh by the simplicity of some questions (genre: 'how do I make my mixes sound like a pro', without further explanation) but I often notice on this board that several experienced members find it more easy to just laugh with newbies, make some stupid remarks instead of really helping them. Also I asekd some dumb stuff as a newbie (maybe sometimes even now
) and I learned a lot of ppl that had the patience to answer.At this stage (after five years of producer education and reading and practicising heaps), I find myself a bit more experienced and I hope to help the new ones as much as possible.
Also, regarding this help, we should accept the limitations of cheaper gear without being led to snobism (I'm sure some of the ppl bashing on some Behringer gear haven't even tried the stuff they are insulting).
Love to you all
Brett
Ill back Xstatic up on the D&R Preamps. I know Xstatic personally and i know that he is a damn good engineer, and has been doing it forever. I also know that he has worked on alot of top end boards too. The stuff i heard him doing with his D&R about a month ago was incredible.
Anyway, back to the thread. I find it incredible how a simple thread can turn into this. But i too find it very annoying when i see the same questions again and again. It also bugs me when i see people as the same question within a matter of days. Infact it is the reason why i dont come here as often as i used to. I find myself answering the same questions night after night. But i will get on everyonce in a while just to do a quick check for things that i feel are worth answering now. Also when ive gained a bit more insight on a subject.
But i think what people need to realize is how frustrating it really is to record when you lack experience. People dont know what they are supposed to be listening for and it causes alot of frustration when they dont get the sounds they are looking for. I know plenty of times when i spend hours and hours expirementing on a sound, and still not find what i was looking for. I would get so frustrated that i would come here trying to look for the easy answer. But i soon learned that people just told me the same thing over and over again. I realized that everything i needed to learn was up to me, with a few exceptions.
I think alot of it comes from the fact that everyone has their own idea on what bright, warm, smooth, dark, etc. sound like. So when they hear something thats supposed to be warm but they hear it as dark, they get really confused. It just takes time for the ear to understand those concepts, and understand what your supposed to be listening for.
Wrd.
Danny
Anyway, back to the thread. I find it incredible how a simple thread can turn into this. But i too find it very annoying when i see the same questions again and again. It also bugs me when i see people as the same question within a matter of days. Infact it is the reason why i dont come here as often as i used to. I find myself answering the same questions night after night. But i will get on everyonce in a while just to do a quick check for things that i feel are worth answering now. Also when ive gained a bit more insight on a subject.
But i think what people need to realize is how frustrating it really is to record when you lack experience. People dont know what they are supposed to be listening for and it causes alot of frustration when they dont get the sounds they are looking for. I know plenty of times when i spend hours and hours expirementing on a sound, and still not find what i was looking for. I would get so frustrated that i would come here trying to look for the easy answer. But i soon learned that people just told me the same thing over and over again. I realized that everything i needed to learn was up to me, with a few exceptions.
I think alot of it comes from the fact that everyone has their own idea on what bright, warm, smooth, dark, etc. sound like. So when they hear something thats supposed to be warm but they hear it as dark, they get really confused. It just takes time for the ear to understand those concepts, and understand what your supposed to be listening for.
Wrd.
Danny
Okay,
I just realized how much BULL SH!T I had to read in between the USEFUL and HELPFUL responses. Just to remind these persons I say the following:
STAY ON TOPIC... NO MORE USELESS commentary. If you can't answer any of my questions or give USEFUL insight, THEN DON'T FU(KING POST HERE. I APPRECIATE all the sincerity and honesty of the persons informatively helping me. But, all the rebuttals wouldn't be necessary if it wasn't for these IDIOT remarks that are extraneous, misleading, and not helpful.
I don't want to read JOKES & their responses HERE. Why? Because I seek USEFUL information pertaining to this topic. Different forums related to these other OFF-TOPIC commentary exist on homerecording.com/bbs to keep posts organized. Organization helps people WASTE LESS TIME. My time is important to me, so STOP WASTING MY TIME. I don't care about your "lol" response or similar NON-HELPFUL POSTS so make them some place else, NOT HERE.
I just realized how much BULL SH!T I had to read in between the USEFUL and HELPFUL responses. Just to remind these persons I say the following:
STAY ON TOPIC... NO MORE USELESS commentary. If you can't answer any of my questions or give USEFUL insight, THEN DON'T FU(KING POST HERE. I APPRECIATE all the sincerity and honesty of the persons informatively helping me. But, all the rebuttals wouldn't be necessary if it wasn't for these IDIOT remarks that are extraneous, misleading, and not helpful.
I don't want to read JOKES & their responses HERE. Why? Because I seek USEFUL information pertaining to this topic. Different forums related to these other OFF-TOPIC commentary exist on homerecording.com/bbs to keep posts organized. Organization helps people WASTE LESS TIME. My time is important to me, so STOP WASTING MY TIME. I don't care about your "lol" response or similar NON-HELPFUL POSTS so make them some place else, NOT HERE.
It depends on what you want the mic for... but, I use my Sennheiser MD421's and MD441's more than my EV RE20.dejacky said:If you had the following mics:
Shure SM48
Shure SM57
Shure SM58
Sennheiser e835 <--currently main vocal mic
Oktava MK012 (2) <--drum overheads
AT3035 <--currently used as kick drum mic
which mic is a better addition to this mic collection; EV RE20 or Sennheiser MD441? (also comments comparing the 2 mics would be much appreciated)
Type of music: all types of rock/alternative (not really light jazz) electric guitar, acoustic drums, vocals, etc. 8 channels would be recorded simlutaneously of these bands live in a home studio. The preamp currently being used is a SM ProAudio PR8 (only +40dB), but I might add an M-Audio DMP3 if it provides more useful gain headroom. thanks in advance
-dejacky
PS... both the MD441 and RE20 are dynamic mics.
Dejacky - Maybe the posts people are posting are part of your situation more than you are noticing. The answer to your question is totally dependent on the situation. The best way to answer your question is to try them out yourself. Sadly, it may be the only way. Try them both and see which one you use more.
Right now i can tell you the biggest problem with the EV RE20 is the gain. Those things take an incredible amount of gain to push them. Infact if im not using it on something loud like a bass drum, i can barely get a usable signal with the preamps i have now.
Ive heard the 441 is similiar. So maybe it would be wiser to put some money into a nicer preamp first, because its not going to matter what microphone you get. I would think in your situation, the Sennheiser would be the way to go however. A DMP3 and a Sennheiser MD421 would be a good way to go.
But, if i were really to choose between the two, i would take the MD441.
Danny
Right now i can tell you the biggest problem with the EV RE20 is the gain. Those things take an incredible amount of gain to push them. Infact if im not using it on something loud like a bass drum, i can barely get a usable signal with the preamps i have now.
Ive heard the 441 is similiar. So maybe it would be wiser to put some money into a nicer preamp first, because its not going to matter what microphone you get. I would think in your situation, the Sennheiser would be the way to go however. A DMP3 and a Sennheiser MD421 would be a good way to go.
But, if i were really to choose between the two, i would take the MD441.
Danny
