EQing - Some questions.

[PhilLondon]

Hey all!

I'm just starting to learn more about EQing and I have some questions.

Here is a template EQ that I pulled up in Logic just to use as an example to see if my understanding was correct. I understand what EQing is, and why we do it, but just reading the graph and knowing how and what to cut/boost is all new to me. If you have a few minutes please have a read and answer in really simple terms if you could.



- Everything from 20Hz is rolled off by approx -20 dB which by approx 45Hz is back to 0, and then boosted by around 4dB at 40Hz and then rolled back to 0 at around 140Hz. Does this mean that you can't hear anything at that range because it's been silenced, but as it reaches 35dB you can hear those frequencies clearer and by the time it reaches 45Hz that frequency should be audible, which are then boosted so that they are more pronounced at 50Hz?

- When people talk about a high pass filter, is it because it cuts the surrounding frequencies out so that you can boost other close frequencies, or keep them around 0dB so that they can be heard easier?

- Why don't you just cut all the way to 30dB? What's the point in only cutting by 10dB?

- Are the icons at the top just icons to indicate what range of the spectrum will be controlled if you select them?

- When looking at EQing, is this type of EQ the right one to use?

That's it for now! Thanks a lot.

 

[RAMI]

- Everything from 20Hz is rolled off by approx -20 dB which by approx 45Hz is back to 0. Does this mean that you can't hear anything at that range because it's been silenced, but as it reaches 45dB you can hear those frequencies clearer and by the time it reaches 45Hz that frequency should be audible, which are then boosted so that they are more pronounced?

Yes, you pretty much understand that.

When people talk about a high pass filter, is it because it cuts the surrounding frequencies out so that you can boost other close frequencies, or keep them around 0dB so that they can be heard easier?

Not really, or I don't understand what you're saying. Basically, what we're talking about in your first question is a high-pass filter. It's cutting all the low frequencies below 45hz and it's allowing the "HIGHS" to "PASS". A high-pass is really a low cut.

Why don't you just cut all the way to 30dB? What's the point in only cutting by 10dB?

Where? What are you talking about? I don't see anything being cut by "only" 10db. But, just for the sake of being clear, a 10db cut is a BIG cut, generally speaking. Cutting by 30db is totally eliminating that frequency, which is not always what you want.

Are the icons at the top just icons to indicate what range of the spectrum will be controlled if you select them?

Different icons mean different things. The icon on the left represents a high pass filter. The second one is a shelf. The others are band-pass, also known as "bell", until you get more to the right and then you see a shelf, and finally a low-pass filter.

When looking at EQing, is this type of EQ the right one to use?

Not sure I understand this question. "When looking at EQ"? I guess, if this is the one you want to look at.

 

[PhilLondon]

Thanks for replying.

Yes, you pretty much understand that.

Hooray!

Not really, or I don't understand what you're saying. Basically, what we're talking about in your first question is a high-pass filter. It's cutting all the low frequencies below 45hz and it's allowing the "HIGHS" to "PASS". A high-pass is really a low cut.

What I mean is, by cutting the lows there, does it give more space for the frequencies surrounding it to come through, or does this action affect the frequency at the other end of the spectrum? So, if I cut 20-40Hz, will it benefit 50Hz when I boost it, or does it mean that the higher frequencies (11000Hz+) will be more prominent? Or both?

And does that mean that a Low Pass Filter is basically a High Cut?

Where? What are you talking about? I don't see anything being cut by "only" 10db. But, just for the sake of being clear, a 10db cut is a BIG cut, generally speaking. Cutting by 30db is totally eliminating that frequency, which is not always what you want.

Like, at 150Hz, they have cut only by 3dB. So based on your reply, having that frequency completely cut would completely remove something from the tone, which could be worse than just quietening it some?

Different icons mean different things. The icon on the left represents a high pass filter. The second one is a shelf. The others are band-pass, also known as "bell", until you get more to the right and then you see a shelf, and finally a low-pass filter.

Not sure I understand this question. "When looking at EQ"? I guess, if this is the one you want to look at.

Sorry, I meant the type of EQ; parametric etc. What one should I use?

Also, I understand the concept: Remove the frequencies that are not dominant in the sound, so that the ones that are, are not effected and can be more prominent, and/or boost the preferred frequencies to achieve the sound you want. But, I'm confused as to how to find out what the desirable and non desirable frequencies are. Because obviously if I knew, I could just cut and boost whatever I wanted, but I don't seem to be able to find out how to do this.

Thanks again.

 

[RAMI]

You're on the right track, Phil.

I high-pass (low cut) doesn't quite work in the way you described. You can't "high-pass" from one frequency to another (like in your 20-40hz example). A high pass will cut EVERYTHING under a certain frequency. So, if you have a high-pass filter at 100hz, it will cut EVERYTHING under 100hz, and allow everything HIGHer than that to PASS.

And, yes, low pass is exactly the opposite of high-pass. It cuts everything below the frequency you chose to low pass at.

 

[PhilLondon]

I know it seems a bit stupid, but by pass, do you literally mean that it allows the higher frequencies to come through clearer than it would have before, because the low frequencies would have been occupying the same space?

And how can I identify what frequencies are beneficial and which are not in say, a guitar tone (for example)?

 

[RAMI]

I know it seems a bit stupid, but by pass, do you literally mean that it allows the higher frequencies to come through clearer than it would have before, because the low frequencies would have been occupying the same space?

"Pass" means it's not affecting those frequencies. By extension, they'll probably come through more clearly, but that's because of eliminating the other frequencies, not because you did anything to those higher frequencies to make them sound better.

 

[PhilLondon]

Okay I get it. By having them there they would all occupy the same space, by removing them the others can occupy that space, therefore making them more prevalent and not affected by the bothersome ones?

 

[BroKen_H]

One of the biggest uses of a high-pass filter is to get rid of the "rumble" in a given sound. A leslie for example has a low rumble from the cabinet that is easily taken out by setting your filter around 60Hz.
Same with a grand piano.Filtering out below 60 Hz makes a lot of the pedal noises and lower harmonics go away.
Bass guitar can be run out below 40-60 Hz, sometimes higher, and leaves better "space" for your kick. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Just remember the most quoted statement in recording goes clear back to 1964, "If it sounds good, it is good."
Check out THIS THREAD. I think it will help you with EQ. I know it did me!

 

[RAMI]

...another thing is this:

Yes, it's good to know the the so-called "rules". But, really, over-thinking this is the best way to drive yourself crazy for nothing. Just use your ears. Experiment. Choose a frequency, boost the hell out of it and listen to what it does. Now take the same frequency and cut the hell out of it. Now do the same thing, but change the type of EQ setting. In other words, try band-pass, then try shelf, then try low or high pass. I'm assuming you're at home and not paying a penny for studio time. So, you'll learn and accomplish way more by actually spending a lot of that time trying things hands on rather than trying to get every question that pops into your head answered.

 

[BroKen_H]

Exactly. Play!!! The best way to learn is hands on. Don't be fooled by the "Be a Produkah in 10 minutes" videos. There's a lot to this game. Boost that frequency way up and play with the Q to see what it does. Close your eyes and ignore that visual in front of you, it doesn't make a difference to the sound.

 

[PhilLondon]

Yea I understand what you're saying, and I have been messing around with stuff but it's also difficult when you feeling like you're just guessing.

 

[RAMI]

Yea I understand what you're saying, and I have been messing around with stuff but it's also difficult when you feeling like you're just guessing.

Totally understandable. And I hope it didn't seem like I was suggesting that you shouldn't ask questions. But the fact is, for a long time, even if you know the answer to every question, you'll still be doing a lot of guessing. Eventually, it will be more focused and less guessing, but you do have to go through the "what happens when I do this" phase. It's an un-avoidable step in the process.

 

[PhilLondon]

Yes of course. Right now I'm mostly concerned with understanding the graph, and I think I do, so that's a big step forward. One last question, do people normally EQ every part of a drum kit, or is it mainly snare and kick?

Thanks BroKen for that thread, it looks very useful!

My friend just sent me this, so it's somewhere to start too.

 

[RAMI]

One last question, do people normally EQ every part of a drum kit, or is it mainly snare and kick?

You see, this is the thing. There is no "normal". You might have to EQ every mic on the drum set, you might have to only EQ some of them, or you may not have to EQ anything. That's why you'll always hear the phrases "Use your ears",and "If it sounds good, it is good". It's really that simple. As vague as it sounds, you do whatever you need to do to get the best sound out of everything. That sometimes means doing nothing.

As far as those EQ charts are concerend, take a look at it and then forget it. Don't follow that stuff too religiously. It will only make things worse. Once again, you do (or don't do) whatever you need to do (or not do) to get the best sound out of everything.

 

[PhilLondon]

I understand. Different horses for different courses,

I'm gonna start looking at the recorded instruments I've got, and think about what kind of frequencies they should occupy, I.e mid range for guitar, and play around in that area.

Thanks.

 

[BroKen_H]

Keep experimenting and soon, if you can remember what you did, you'll find something amazing. Remember how to do that and then keep experimenting. After a couple score of those VOILA! moments, you start to put together a repertoire of skills that you can call on. Guessing becomes experience. It works the same for any skill set.
Learning the classics and how to read music is all very good. But Van Cliburn does more than read notes on a page. I can play Tchaikovsky, but I can't play it like he did. But he couldn't play some of the things that I do like I do. It's my own skill set.
It's the same in this industry. Miking, playing, tracking, mixing, producing. Each has it's own set of skills, and everybody's set is different. Become who you are. Rami sings Alice Cooper and Mick Jagger like he must be their clone...but his own music shines with a completely different mark! Hope this makes sense...

 

[PhilLondon]

Yep I'm with you. I'm just looking for a basic understanding, then I'm good to go.

Thanks!

 

[PlatinumAudio]

Here is a guide that I bumped into on FB that describes a basic workflow of mixing ITB. It skips a lot of detail, but it's generally what I do. Thought it might help, as I think it's important to understand the distinction between applying subtractive and additive EQ.

 

[PhilLondon]

Thanks for that. So, according to that I should insert an EQ Plugin, cut all the frequencies that I need to, then insert compression, do all my compression, then insert another EQ Plugin and sort out anything that I want boosted?

This stop the compression affecting boosted frequencies in a negative way.

So will this just make it easier to control the compression basically? And is it really recommended or is it something that you would do if you were having issues with EQ and compression?

 

[Paschalis I.]

I know it seems a bit stupid, but by pass, do you literally mean that it allows the higher frequencies to come through clearer than it would have before, because the low frequencies would have been occupying the same space?

And how can I identify what frequencies are beneficial and which are not in say, a guitar tone (for example)?

* High pass filter or low cut = Lets the highs pass or cuts the lows (same thing).
Low Pass filter or high cut = Lets the lows pass or cuts the highs (same thing).
* By sweeping the frequency spectrum using an EQ, cut whatever sounds wrong, boost what needs to be boosted taking into consideration the rest of the tracks.