double tracking

Personally I've never tried it....

They say or there is a school of thought where you can triple track, or take a single copied track, detune ever so slightly, minutely to where it is essentially imperceivable, one above and one below the main track to fatten a vocal. You don't really have to stop at one above and one below, they can be stacked each ever so slightly detuned. I have heard examples of it done, it works. I would think maybe it works better with a copied single track? Multiple takes in the end too many variables? I suppose if one has a slight problem singing precisely on key it has a similar effect with combining multiple takes. But if the vocalist is perhaps unavailable and all you have is a single track to work with it might come in handy to fatten the vocal.
 
What you're describing is a chorus plugin.
Usually they offer four main controls - volume, pan, pitch, and delay.

The result will sound distinctly different from double tracking, though, because with double tracking these things may vary but they will vary inconsistently.
 
DM60 said:
To me, I find real double tracking usually hard. Others, like yourself, my have an easier time of it.
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Totally understandable. I'm sure there are many things I can't get my head around that you'd find second nature. I think it's human nature to say "How can anyone find this hard?" when something comes easy to us. :)
 
One of the people I was always impressed with was Karen Carpenter - he double tracking was so good.

I must admit I use the lineup feature in Cubase and awful lot - you can do your double tracking, and then it will stretch and slide everything into alignment. Brilliant tool.
 
In my experience, there seems to be two broad types of vocalists: harmonisers and melodicists ( I think I just made up that word). The harmonisers can make up and sing harmonies on the spot, but are not so good at double tracking because they tend to forget their phrasing from take to take. The melodicists are great at replicating a melody line very accurately, and are adept at double-tracking, but really struggle to create and sing harmony lines. There are, of course, singers can are good at both to varying degrees.
 
Random dude said:
I'm not a great singer
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No offence, but I entirely disagree with that. Ever since I've been on HR, you've easily had one of the best voices here, both lead, backing and harmony. A much better and more palatable voice than many singers that have made singles and albums over the last 70 years.
Random dude said:
But I don't think the time to double track is while you're still figuring out the song. You would double track after you you've decided on a melody, recorded it and are comfortable with it
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I actually find that it doesn't make a great deal of difference. I've done it both ways and as long as I know the melody, I've been good to go, even if I literally just came up with the melody 5 minutes before.
DM60 said:
For me, to get it the way I want it, requires several takes
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Some of the time, it'll be that way for me too. On the other hand, sometimes one is all I need. But I'm a bit naughty as I record in sections, verse by verse, chorus by chorus. So I won't move on until I've gotten the part as I want it. That might be one take, it might even be the practice take, it might be the 8th.
DM60 said:
But new songs, I am still figuring out what they are and some of my old takes are still stuck in my head
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It's funny, if I abandon a take, I more or less forget it, often even if I want to remember it. If I've done a bit that I really like, I'll leave it on to remember it, until I've gotten the take I like.
I've never found DT-ing vocals hard, it just nearly always sounded lame. Rarely have I had a problem with the sound of DT'd harmonies or backing vocals.
gecko zzed said:
melodicists ( I think I just made up that word)
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I've seen that word before.
gecko zzed said:
The harmonisers can make up and sing harmonies on the spot, but are not so good at double tracking because they tend to forget their phrasing from take to take
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Interestingly, the people I know that can harmonize on the spot {or almost on the spot with a bit of thought} have generally turned out to be good double-trackers. Once their part is laid down, even if the part was a complex or difficult part, they've always seemed to breeze through the double track, effortlessly, even when being recorded in a different key at a different speed. It's almost as if they're so relieved to have gotten the first vocal down, anything following will be a doddle.
 
gecko zzed said:
In my experience, there seems to be two broad types of vocalists: harmonisers and melodicists ( I think I just made up that word). The harmonisers can make up and sing harmonies on the spot, but are not so good at double tracking because they tend to forget their phrasing from take to take. The melodicists are great at replicating a melody line very accurately, and are adept at double-tracking, but really struggle to create and sing harmony lines. There are, of course, singers can are good at both to varying degrees.
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Harmonisers or Melodicists? I fall into the Harmonisers category. It's always been easy for me to sing harmony...even to a song I've only listened to once with a single vocal.
 
The hardest thing I have ever done is sing harmonies while playing bass. It only worked properly once my finger brain played the song without me having to think, leaving the feeble brain to concentrate on the notes I was singing, while my hands played the bass.
 
rob aylestone said:
The hardest thing I have ever done is sing harmonies while playing bass. It only worked properly once my finger brain played the song without me having to think, leaving the feeble brain to concentrate on the notes I was singing, while my hands played the bass.
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Ha! I could sing most Beatles stuff and play basic bass. The 'cleverest' I ever got was to play sort of half the riff to All My Loving whilst singing. I could play the whole thing but not sing along. I recently tried to learn the bass part to Come Together. HTF he plays that and sings I shall never know!
"Here Comes the Sun" is pretty tricky.

Dave.
 
grimtraveller said:
Some of the time, it'll be that way for me too. On the other hand, sometimes one is all I need. But I'm a bit naughty as I record in sections, verse by verse, chorus by chorus. So I won't move on until I've gotten the part as I want it. That might be one take, it might even be the practice take, it might be the 8th.
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I don't always do it in one full take. I am not a purist. Just trying to make a good, song/recording/mix/production.
grimtraveller said:
It's funny, if I abandon a take, I more or less forget it, often even if I want to remember it. If I've done a bit that I really like, I'll leave it on to remember it, until I've gotten the take I like.
I've never found DT-ing vocals hard, it just nearly always sounded lame. Rarely have I had a problem with the sound of DT'd harmonies or backing vocals.
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If I have tried many times to make a melody work (countless tries), and I just have to abandon the approach and try something different (I am talking scrapping what I was going to do and make a change), then it is difficult. The old is still in my head, but I am trying to do the new. Anyway, I can get confused.

I am probably not as talented as some of you folks, but if I am doing a "live" double vocal, it takes me several tries. That is why I will use ADT plug in to just fatten the vocals (pan to the mix). Much easier for me than doing the "real deal".
 
markmann said:
When you DT vocals, do you pan left/right or keep both tracks center?
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It's the old "It depends". But, more often than not, I'll make a folder, put both tracks in there, and lower one of them until it's just thickening the vocal instead of making it sound like 2 different tracks.

I'll also often do something like keep the second track lower during the verses, but then bring it up for the chorus to give the chorus a different feel.
 
DM60 said:
I will use ADT plug in to just fatten the vocals (pan to the mix). Much easier for me than doing the "real deal".
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Honestly, regardless of everything I've said, a good ADT plug-in works just fine. When I get lazy, which lately seems to be all the time, I'll throw an ADT on it and Bob's your uncle. :)
 
In the doc with Rick Rubin and McCartney dissecting the Beatle tunes, on one song, I can't remember which, but Paul said Martin had him double track a vocal as he felt it needed it and ''to cover up any sins.'' McCartney thought it was fine on it's own, but of course did what Martin wanted
 
pj11 said:
In the doc with Rick Rubin and McCartney dissecting the Beatle tunes, on one song, I can't remember which, but Paul said Martin had him double track a vocal as he felt it needed it and ''to cover up any sins.'' McCartney thought it was fine on it's own, but of course did what Martin wanted
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The song was Eleanor Rigby
 
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