double tracking
- Thread starter ecc83
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Nice demo there.
I hear he left the first verse dry and double tracked for the rest? It's a cool technique used primarily to emphasize certain parts of a song but also used for a songs entirety. Like most things regarding music recording, it's subjective to the performer, producer, and writer. If it sounds good to you then it doesn't matter what others think.
That said. For this song I would have left the verses straight and DT'd the ''You don't look different but you have changed'' parts and the ''You're not the same.'' But that's me.
I'll sometimes double track the whole song then pull faders in and out to see where it may work the best in the mix.
I hear he left the first verse dry and double tracked for the rest? It's a cool technique used primarily to emphasize certain parts of a song but also used for a songs entirety. Like most things regarding music recording, it's subjective to the performer, producer, and writer. If it sounds good to you then it doesn't matter what others think.
That said. For this song I would have left the verses straight and DT'd the ''You don't look different but you have changed'' parts and the ''You're not the same.'' But that's me.
I'll sometimes double track the whole song then pull faders in and out to see where it may work the best in the mix.
Thank you for your comments. To explain his idea a bit further? Son Steve lives in Le Havre but has a friend/songwriter here in Northampton. Said friend has written some songs and tried to record them at home but he is never satisfied with his results. I was chatting to Steve last evening and the idea of D tracking came up as a means for mate to improve his recordings. When we had finished our Skype session Steve sent me that clip an hour or two later. It is intended just to demonstrate the effect of DTing with a fairly simple setup.
Now, Steve NEVER tells his tekky dad what sort of rig he uses! I am waiting on that info. My guess is a Turner acoustic guitar*, a Mackie LDC , a MOTU M4 and Samplitude Pro x 3.
*"Twiddly bits" might have been done on a Lennon 'looky-likey' Ricky.
Dave.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
I've never rated my voice when it's double-tracked. My friends, mainly female, that I've double-tracked over the years have all sounded great when DT'd.
But last week, the strangest thing happened. I was doing a vocal and I thought that a few lines might sound OK DT'd. The piece I was DT-ing required kind of high notes that I have difficulty in reaching. Usually, when I DT, I generally record both vocals at different speeds for some extra 'zoomph.' So I was doing it this time and I was way back from the mic. In fact, I wasn't even facing the mic and I was bent over backwards to reach the notes in the sequence. And when I listened to it afterwards, it didn't sound horrible to my ears. It has done for a couple of decades {unless I'm helping with backing vocals or harmonies}. So I tried it again on a couple of other songs and it again sounded OK.
It hasn't for so long that I'd more or less given up double-tracking myself.
So, one vocal done as usual and the other, at a different speed and well away from the mic, at a 90° angle. It was a complete accident. But accidents have their benefits ~ as long as they don't land you in hospital !
But last week, the strangest thing happened. I was doing a vocal and I thought that a few lines might sound OK DT'd. The piece I was DT-ing required kind of high notes that I have difficulty in reaching. Usually, when I DT, I generally record both vocals at different speeds for some extra 'zoomph.' So I was doing it this time and I was way back from the mic. In fact, I wasn't even facing the mic and I was bent over backwards to reach the notes in the sequence. And when I listened to it afterwards, it didn't sound horrible to my ears. It has done for a couple of decades {unless I'm helping with backing vocals or harmonies}. So I tried it again on a couple of other songs and it again sounded OK.
It hasn't for so long that I'd more or less given up double-tracking myself.
So, one vocal done as usual and the other, at a different speed and well away from the mic, at a 90° angle. It was a complete accident. But accidents have their benefits ~ as long as they don't land you in hospital !
Random dude
Well-known member
Interesting. I've never thought of that. Sometimes I want my DT's to blend and sound like one voice. But other times, I've tried to make it sound like 2 different people. So, I've tried goofy stuff like singing in a nasally "John" voice for one track and then a rounder "Paul" voice for the other. I find that kind of thing only works for back vocals, not so much for a lead vocal....for me, anyway. But the different speed idea is worth trying. Thanx, brother.
Some people are of the opinion that double tracking your voice means you're not a very good or strong singer. That makes me laugh. It's quite enlightening to know that Lennon, Gillan, Plant, Mercury, and Daltrey were such horrible singers.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
I've tried to DT vocals, but just was never happy with my results. I've tried using different mics to make them sound a bit different, and played with EQ but it just didn't seem to be what I was looking for. But when it's done well, it sounds really nice.
I do, however like to do harmony vocals, stacking 3 or 4 different vocals tracks. It would help if I had more vocal range.
I do, however like to do harmony vocals, stacking 3 or 4 different vocals tracks. It would help if I had more vocal range.
Random dude
Well-known member
Exactly. It never sounds as natural. A person doubling his own voice will never sing both parts exactly the same, no matter how tight they are. That's why plug-ins that try to create ADT (Automatic Double Tracking) do more than just "Clone" a signal. They'll usually have some kind of "Wow" and "Flutter"controls, etc...
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
This is something I've tried and tried since 1992, with virtually zero success ~ until last week. Whereas all my female friends that sing seem to have always achieved it pretty effortlessly.
I recently read Geddy Lee's autobiography {a great read, by the way} and in it, he made the point that sometimes, one intentionally goes for the sound of two people singing or rather, it doesn't matter if that's how it sounds. That threw me somewhat, as most of the time when I DT'd, I wasn't trying to sound like two people. I remember reading some years ago {or possibly it was on one of those "how such and such an album was made" documentaries}, someone, I can't recall who, talking about David Gilmour's double tracking during the Floyd's heyday and also someone else talking about Freddie Mercury's DT-ing and both times, it was mentioned how wonderfully tight and accurate their DT-ing was, so much so, that they naturally phased and had their own effect.
But when I think about it, I like it even when one person is sounding like two different people.
Great singers and weaker singers alike double track and often sound better as a result.
I have to say, some of my friends weren't strong/confident singers when they first recorded but they sounded it when DT-ed. And when they hear themselves, they've pretty much always been pleasantly surprised.
It was harmony and backing vocals that first got me into recording at different speeds. Working on a 4-track portastudio, I would only have 2 tracks to play with for the harmonies or backing vocals and curiosity caused me to see what would happen if I recorded at 2 different speeds and then bounced them together. The first time I tried it, I thought it sounded fantabulous. But when I bounced that lot with other tracks, I was so disappointed with how it all was obscured and sounded like mush. That's what actually decided me to progress to 8-track back in the day. So when I was using an 8-track cassette portastudio, I got backing/harmonies in very early on in the process. I would use 3 or 4 tracks and when all recorded at different speeds then bounced to one track, it often sounded great. I could make 2 or 3 people sound like a huge choir and the good thing was that one needed minimal effects. Those voices crunched together often was its own effect.
Nowadays my range is limited so now that I can actually get a DT sound that I'm happy with, I might use it a bit more.
The answer to the question is there. Double-tracking is about a certain subtlety. Probably most non-musicians don't even consciously notice it because it's not always obvious and it's done in different ways. But it's that putting together however many performances that all differ, however microtonally, that gets the effect and makes each eventual vocal unique. You can copy the track and nudge and EQ/FX, but that's a different effect. It has its moments and is useful in some instances, but for me, it's as different as an electric guitar is from an acoustic one.
DM60
Well-known member
Double tracking is an interesting topic. There are three ways I do it, one is to use an ADT effect plug in and do various different tricks. That is mainly to fatten the vocals or to get them to sit slightly L/R and middle.
The other is to do a real DT. That takes a lot of work for the second round. But done well, sounds really good.
The third way is more harmony based or a blend of like the prime vocal and sometimes not. More of a hybrid duet.
But always from a production decision to serve the song. And to me, that is the reason to learn all of this mixing/producing stuff, it is to me as important to the song as the instruments. IMO
The other is to do a real DT. That takes a lot of work for the second round. But done well, sounds really good.
The third way is more harmony based or a blend of like the prime vocal and sometimes not. More of a hybrid duet.
But always from a production decision to serve the song. And to me, that is the reason to learn all of this mixing/producing stuff, it is to me as important to the song as the instruments. IMO
Random dude
Well-known member
Personally, and I'm just throwing this out there for conversation's sake, not responding to anything anyone said.....
I've so often heard/read people say show hard it is to sing the same thing twice. I just don't get that. How can that be hard? How can someone not be able to write a melody and sing it the same twice? Are you not able to sing along to a song on the radio without going way off course? How can you not be able to simply do that?
It's a total mystery to me because I find a lot of things hard when it comes to music/recording. But singing the same thing over again is not one of them. It's one of the easiest, most natural thing to me.
I'm not even blowing my own horn here. I'm not a great singer. But that one, I'll never understand.
I've so often heard/read people say show hard it is to sing the same thing twice. I just don't get that. How can that be hard? How can someone not be able to write a melody and sing it the same twice? Are you not able to sing along to a song on the radio without going way off course? How can you not be able to simply do that?
It's a total mystery to me because I find a lot of things hard when it comes to music/recording. But singing the same thing over again is not one of them. It's one of the easiest, most natural thing to me.
I'm not even blowing my own horn here. I'm not a great singer. But that one, I'll never understand.
DM60
Well-known member
It becomes more noticeable when you are recording verses just singing with the radio. Like playing live and fake it if you f' up. If you don't show any reaction, 99.9% of the people don't notice. Recording, every time you hear that f'up, you cringe.
But hey, if you can do it easily, then you have a great natural talent. For me, to get it the way I want it, requires several takes.
Random dude
Well-known member
Yeah, I probably didn't come up with the best comparison. But still......
DM60
Well-known member
Well, maybe others can do it well. I can't. For me, I don't even know the song yet. There are different ways to sing it, different timings and I won't know the song until after I finish the songs. Songs I have completed, and have heard many times, I can double track real easy. But new songs, I am still figuring out what they are and some of my old takes are still stuck in my head, I am focusing on this or that and you have to hit it dead balls on or at least pretty consistent.
You might be right, I just suck Then there is that.
You might be right, I just suck
Then there is that.
Random dude
Well-known member
Well yeah....But I don't think the time to double track is while you're still figuring out the song. You would double track after you you've decided on a melody, recorded it and are comfortable with it.
Random dude
Well-known member
When did I say you suck?
DM60
Well-known member
I apologize, I didn't mean to say you said that.When did I say you suck?
DM60
Well-known member
No, but I still haven't heard the song that many times and there are past approaches still in my head.
To me, I find real double tracking usually hard. Others, like yourself, my have an easier time of it.