diffusors

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

WOW! I Knew it!!!

Hey guys, check out the CARPET threshold at the floor/wall intersection. Man, I had a friend in the 80's that was building his HR room with what materials he could find. He found a piece of linoleum that wasn't quite big enough for the floor, and some carpet cutoffs that wasn't big enough either. So thats exactly what he did, but made the boundary line between the carpet/linoleum CURVED like a serpentine line. I want to tell you, UNDOUBTABLY, that was the best, most diffused sound I've ever heard in a HR type room. And it was in a garage. It sounded HUGE And thats why this is EXACTLY what I am doing in my room.

From what I understand now, DIFFRACTION is the key ingredient here. Since its a CORNER, and the carpet is on one plane of the corner, and a reflective wall on the other, you get absorption and reflection happening in the same boundary space, although thats totally conjecture on my behalf.
I have no proof or any "scientific" principle, or tests to back it up.
All I know is it sounded fucking great!! One other thing. I have been told by an acoustician from europe, that one reason CORNER BASE TRAPS absorb MORE than the absorption coeffecients tell you, is DIFFRACTION at the wall/fiberglass boundary ADDS absorption to the equasion. Thats where my conjecture comes from. No matter, I'm doing it because I also think it just looks plain cool. I'm using black carpet against a Maple laminate flooring. Makes a great contrast.

 

[CoolCat]

maybe in private all the pro's use headphones?

thats why they all secretly tell the juniors, DON'T WEAR HEADPHONES!!!

its a secret club, like the DavinciCode, the SECRET M.E. CLUB just spends all that money on diffusers, and $10 million dollar studios to distract the Newbies, the customers, and wanna-be??

WHAT IF??? in secret, EVERY ALBUM EVER MADE WAS MIXED AND MASTERED WITH HEADPHONES man! Thats why they don't care if a console or CRT is directly in front of their monitor??
Conspiracy?

or maybe I'm full of shit and possibly partied too hard in the 60's and 70's? thats a possibilty too.

 

[pandamonk]

WOW! I Knew it!!!

Hey guys, check out the CARPET threshold at the floor/wall intersection. Man, I had a friend in the 80's that was building his HR room with what materials he could find. He found a piece of linoleum that wasn't quite big enough for the floor, and some carpet cutoffs that wasn't big enough either. So thats exactly what he did, but made the boundary line between the carpet/linoleum CURVED like a serpentine line. I want to tell you, UNDOUBTABLY, that was the best, most diffused sound I've ever heard in a HR type room. And it was in a garage. It sounded HUGE And thats why this is EXACTLY what I am doing in my room.

From what I understand now, DIFFRACTION is the key ingredient here. Since its a CORNER, and the carpet is on one plane of the corner, and a reflective wall on the other, you get absorption and reflection happening in the same boundary space, although thats totally conjecture on my behalf.
I have no proof or any "scientific" principle, or tests to back it up.
All I know is it sounded fucking great!! One other thing. I have been told by an acoustician from europe, that one reason CORNER BASE TRAPS absorb MORE than the absorption coeffecients tell you, is DIFFRACTION at the wall/fiberglass boundary ADDS absorption to the equasion. Thats where my conjecture comes from. No matter, I'm doing it because I also think it just looks plain cool. I'm using black carpet against a Maple laminate flooring. Makes a great contrast.

Rick i can't see or udnerstand what you are talking about. Please explain

 

[pandamonk]

Aww in the abbey road one? Still don't understand though

 

[pandamonk]

Wow

That shows how much of the speaker is actually blocked by the console. What's with that? Is it that those a subs and bass frequencies omnidirectional and can just pass through the console?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Aww in the abbey road one?

Yea! See the Teal carpet between the wood flooring and the wall? Its just a perimeter strip of carpet that seperates the boundary of the wood flooring from the wall. Thats what I'm referring to. This places an absorption boundary between two reflective boundarys AT A CORNER. I BELIEVE this causes different pressure IMPEDENCE FIELDS...but DON'T QUOTE ME I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've read...SOMETHING happens that causes a MORE diffuse soundfield. My guess is its diffraction. Like I said, all I DO know is it sounds great...to MY ears.

 

[pandamonk]

Yea! See the Teal carpet between the wood flooring and the wall? Its just a perimeter strip of carpet that seperates the boundary of the wood flooring from the wall. Thats what I'm referring to. This places an absorption boundary between two reflective boundarys AT A CORNER. I BELIEVE this causes different pressure IMPEDENCE FIELDS...but DON'T QUOTE ME I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've read...SOMETHING happens that causes a MORE diffuse soundfield. My guess is its diffraction. Like I said, all I DO know is it sounds great...to MY ears.

So, would you suggest it in my wee shed studio, lol? Remember, my room's only 6 1/2' x 7 1/2' and will be terrible acoustically. I will be adding a lot of, especially bass, absorbtion though.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

That shows how much of the speaker is actually blocked by the console.

Perhaps they have a HYDROLICALLY raisable support table undernieth. At a touch of a button, it raises the nearfields for mixing..... Hahahahahah...money=whim.

 

[pandamonk]

Perhaps they have a HYDROLICALLY raisable support table undernieth. At a touch of a button, it raises the nearfields for mixing..... Hahahahahah...money=whim.

Hahahaha, lol, niceone.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Remember, my room's only 6 1/2' x 7 1/2'

Hmmm, I'd say you can't make a room that size appear sonicly larger except by LOTS of absorption,which takes up precious space in a room that size.
Except on the floor. Of course, that will make it dead as well, but all things being equal, I don't see an alternative as SMALL rooms have terrible modal distribution. Thats a real tough one Pandamonk. But enjoy what you have. Some people would LOVE to have the seperate room you have If nothing else, just to get away from it all. However, I DO believe smaller versions of SUPERCHUNK absorbers in the wall/ceiling intersections and at the rear wall/wall corners would help mucho. Same in the peak of the ceiling if your ceiling follows the line of a typical gabled roof.

I've been told that NO amount of diffusers will help in VERY small envelopes. Lobing effects within the mixing sphere are actually detrimental, as the wells from QRD type diffusers are actually 1/4 wavelength silencers as well. But when they are 3 times the distance from the engineering position/monitors to the rear wall, its negligible. However, you don't have the depth to the rear wall with those kind of dimensions.

Actually, I'm struggling with a decision of what to do with my rear wall at this very moment. I have a very deep and wide "ex" closet , thats perfect for a fixture that holds my 2 MSR-16s. I have very limited floor space in my ONE room studio, although its 14'x18'. I've ALWAYS wanted to build a QRD at the rear wall, but then I'd have to use the fixture along one side wall, takeing up quite a bit of space. But then again, I was "advised", that this closet would be more valuable as a space for "hanger" absorbers instead of diffusers....GOOD GOD I HATE DECISIONS!!

 

[pandamonk]

Hmmm, I'd say you can't make a room that size appear sonicly larger except by LOTS of absorption,which takes up precious space in a room that size.
Except on the floor. Of course, that will make it dead as well, but all things being equal, I don't see an alternative as SMALL rooms have terrible modal distribution. Thats a real tough one Pandamonk. But enjoy what you have. Some people would LOVE to have the seperate room you have If nothing else, just to get away from it all. However, I DO believe smaller versions of SUPERCHUNK absorbers in the wall/ceiling intersections and at the rear wall/wall corners would help mucho. Same in the peak of the ceiling if your ceiling follows the line of a typical gabled roof.

I've been told that NO amount of diffusers will help in VERY small envelopes. Lobing effects within the mixing sphere are actually detrimental, as the wells from QRD type diffusers are actually 1/4 wavelength silencers as well. But when they are 3 times the distance from the engineering position/monitors to the rear wall, its negligible. However, you don't have the depth to the rear wall with those kind of dimensions.

Actually, I'm struggling with a decision of what to do with my rear wall at this very moment. I have a very deep and wide "ex" closet , thats perfect for a fixture that holds my 2 MSR-16s. I have very limited floor space in my ONE room studio, although its 14'x18'. I've ALWAYS wanted to build a QRD at the rear wall, but then I'd have to use the fixture along one side wall, takeing up quite a bit of space. But then again, I was "advised", that this closet would be more valuable as a space for "hanger" absorbers instead of diffusers....GOOD GOD I HATE DECISIONS!!

I will be adding lots of absorbtion. I don't have much money so can't afford superchunks. Will stradeling the corners be enough? I can only stradel 2 of the 4 vertical corners though, due to space, but will be stadelling wall to ceiling corners too. I will be using ultratouch which has pretty decent absorbtion down to 125Hz(0.95 at 125hz, apparantly)and will be building the absorbtion panels so as to leave a lot of the side of the insulation exposed too. One other thing that screws it up even more is that i wanna mix in 5.1 surround, lol. AND that a lot of my equipment will be Behringer hahaha. What do you expect? I'm a student. I've got no money at all, and many many dreams, lol. Check the attached pic to see my control room plan.

 

[pandamonk]

And this is a badly put together pic of what the front and sides of the shed look like now. Compared to what the front looked like.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hey Pandamonk, don't fret. Your doing just fine. Use what you have, learn the most you can with it and don't worry about it. This is SUPPOSED to be fun, remember? Your plan looks very good and I bet your recordings will be just fine. One of these days you'll be able to look back and say..I did THAT with THAT???? Cool. Man, I wish I had even a smidgen of what you know and have when I was your age. Don't laugh, but I'm SIXTY ONE and STILL ain't done with my room....good grief. Will I ever grow up

 

[Tonio]

Rick, so just having the carpet on the perimeter aids in diffracion?hmm Is the wall hard, it appears to be soft??
I put up some broadband absorbers (2x4"-4'thick 703- 2 each in the wall ceiling corner on the long walls)and it really helped the low end, plus bringing up the Hf detail.
Now to kill a 300hz resonance on the lower half. I still need to beef up the back wall absorber. I do have iin the corners and clouds,etc.

Hey Panda , I really didn't like the Ultra lite stuf, I mean it should be OK for wall and such, but making boradband absorbers with 703 was so much easier. At about the same price (here anyway).
T

Yea! See the Teal carpet between the wood flooring and the wall? Its just a perimeter strip of carpet that seperates the boundary of the wood flooring from the wall. Thats what I'm referring to. This places an absorption boundary between two reflective boundarys AT A CORNER. I BELIEVE this causes different pressure IMPEDENCE FIELDS...but DON'T QUOTE ME I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've read...SOMETHING happens that causes a MORE diffuse soundfield. My guess is its diffraction. Like I said, all I DO know is it sounds great...to MY ears.

 

[pandamonk]

Rick, so just having the carpet on the perimeter aids in diffracion?hmm Is the wall hard, it appears to be soft??
I put up some broadband absorbers (2x4"-4'thick 703- 2 each in the wall ceiling corner on the long walls)and it really helped the low end, plus bringing up the Hf detail.
Now to kill a 300hz resonance on the lower half. I still need to beef up the back wall absorber. I do have iin the corners and clouds,etc.

Hey Panda , I really didn't like the Ultra lite stuf, I mean it should be OK for wall and such, but making boradband absorbers with 703 was so much easier. At about the same price (here anyway).
T

Yeh well ultratouch is more expensive here, but is eco friendly and has good coefficients so i'd rather use it

 

[pandamonk]

Hey Pandamonk, don't fret. Your doing just fine. Use what you have, learn the most you can with it and don't worry about it. This is SUPPOSED to be fun, remember? Your plan looks very good and I bet your recordings will be just fine. One of these days you'll be able to look back and say..I did THAT with THAT???? Cool. Man, I wish I had even a smidgen of what you know and have when I was your age. Don't laugh, but I'm SIXTY ONE and STILL ain't done with my room....good grief. Will I ever grow up

It certainly is fun. I get so excited about it, and also bout putting on gigs and my label so yeh i'm definitely having fun. Thanks for the complements. It's made so much easier these days though, with the internet and money. Heehee, 61 and still trying to grow up, i like your way of life. I hope i'm like you at 61, even 51 or 41! I really wanna see where you're at with your studio. I've looked around and haven'y found anything . You need to post some pics Rick