Diana Light The Moon

[robgreen]

Morning all. I wanted to work on something new to contrast with endless remixing of old stuff. This was originally intended to be a bit of a low key, ambient piece. However, it turns out I'm completely incapable of restraint...

Heatmiser was kind enough to help me out and provide a couple of additional guitar tracks that just flesh it out nicely I think.

I'm keen to know what folks think about the song and the mix etc. Also, I'm consciously trying to get better at keeping the low end and lower mids under control and getting at least some air in there (towards a more modern sounding mix maybe?), so would be good to know if I'm moving in the right direction in that regard too.

Possibly a bit of a weird tune mind:



Thanks y'all

 

[gecko zzed]

Things I like:

pretty much everything. I like the arrangement, the instruments, the vocals, the rhythm, the song.

Things I'm not sure about:

the organ sound and its level. I'd probably prefer the organ to be a bit further back.

I'm listening late at night through headphones, so I can't comment much on the low end and lower mids. They seemed ok in the phones.

 

[Anders Erisian]

How did you not show restraint? Pretty 'low key and ambient' from my perspective.
I wouldn't say the lowmids and bottom end had any issues that i noticed, sounded fine to me, definitely not muddy.
I don't know exactly what the archetype of a modern mix is, but this didn't sound like any sort of an attempt to sound 'retro' to me.
You reminded me to stop tooling around with old stuff too - i just realised i haven't even picked up a real musical instrument for more than a week now.
I enjoyed the listen - weirder the better

 

[DM60]

From an arrangement point of view, I think you showed too much restraint. You have a nice canvas here and lots of room to take this to places that would really kick some major butt.

I would suggest take what you have and see where you can take it all within the time frame that you have created. I would look at current electronica for inspiration. With your skills set and a couple of seed ideas you could really take this a few more notches up.

Some ideas, more for thinking about than using: Using Diana looping in time then moon looping underneath on one channel the light the moon on the other channel to complete the sentence. Just throwing stuff out there, hopefully you get the idea. Play with textures, sounds and concepts to push the song a bit.

Just random thoughts, but nice start to a song.

 

[dobro]

Nice! Bring the bvs up, or bring 'em out, so you can hear 'em better. They're getting a bit masked too, so maybe have a look at their EQ profile relative to the organ and guitar and that buzzy sound - lotta overlap.

Lovely atmospheric stuff, Robgreen.

 

[TripleM]

I think you did a good job on the low end and low midrange. Levels there seem just about right to me. The only nitpick I'd have is with the kick. It seems to have a low end boost and a low-mid cut. Just a guess. Those EQ moves seem a bit extreme. The kick has a bouncy-rubber-ball sound to it. I think a more natural kick sound would be preferable. Bass sounds real good to my ear.

The atmosphere of the song is cool. Not my thing musically, but I still think it's done well. Good use of reverb.

 

[robgreen]

Things I like:

pretty much everything. I like the arrangement, the instruments, the vocals, the rhythm, the song.

Things I'm not sure about:

the organ sound and its level. I'd probably prefer the organ to be a bit further back.

I'm listening late at night through headphones, so I can't comment much on the low end and lower mids. They seemed ok in the phones.

Awesome, thanks Gecko. I'm glad most of it worked for you. I do like the organ sound, but I know that when I listened back in my car, some of the frequencies jumped out and became a bit dominating - so I think my mixing environment might be throwing me off a bit. The organ was right up front as the main source of melody, but I'll play about and see how it works a little further back. Cheers

How did you not show restraint? Pretty 'low key and ambient' from my perspective.
I wouldn't say the lowmids and bottom end had any issues that i noticed, sounded fine to me, definitely not muddy.
I don't know exactly what the archetype of a modern mix is, but this didn't sound like any sort of an attempt to sound 'retro' to me.
You reminded me to stop tooling around with old stuff too - i just realised i haven't even picked up a real musical instrument for more than a week now.
I enjoyed the listen - weirder the better

I think because I originally imagined it as a really pared back piece with just a couple of synths - like maybe in an Eno or beatless Boards of Canada tune vein. It grew to maybe around 50 individual tracks in the end! Thanks a lot for your take on the mix balance - really good to hear that. The reason I ask is that my initial mixes always used to be a bit muddy and slanted towards the lower mids, but I never picked up on it myself until people on here pointed it out...and then it seemed obvious.

Glad you enjoyed the listen. Thanks for taking the time Anders - and yeah, get playing again!

 

[robgreen]

From an arrangement point of view, I think you showed too much restraint. You have a nice canvas here and lots of room to take this to places that would really kick some major butt.

I would suggest take what you have and see where you can take it all within the time frame that you have created. I would look at current electronica for inspiration. With your skills set and a couple of seed ideas you could really take this a few more notches up.

Some ideas, more for thinking about than using: Using Diana looping in time then moon looping underneath on one channel the light the moon on the other channel to complete the sentence. Just throwing stuff out there, hopefully you get the idea. Play with textures, sounds and concepts to push the song a bit.

Just random thoughts, but nice start to a song.

Ace, thanks a lot for your thoughts DM. I'd considered that the arrangement was pretty much there from my perspective when I posted it up yesterday, so it's interesting and gives me some food for thought to have that view challenged.

I think I do get the idea what you're suggesting and I'm a fan of electronica too, so I'll have a think about your ideas when I get chance to revisit. Thanks a lot for taking the time

Nice! Bring the bvs up, or bring 'em out, so you can hear 'em better. They're getting a bit masked too, so maybe have a look at their EQ profile relative to the organ and guitar and that buzzy sound - lotta overlap.

Lovely atmospheric stuff, Robgreen.

Cool, thanks a lot dobro. I'm glad it works for you - with the song ultimately being quite a simple idea, I wanted to get plenty of ear candy in. I'm guessing that by BVs you mean the aahs, rather than the response element of the call and response vocals? There are tons of vocal tracks in the song and I agonised over their relative levels more than anything else throughout the mixing, without ever being completely satisfied. I think it's the kind of tune where they need to sit in, rather than on top of the mix, but I'll take a look at where they might be masked and look at the EQing etc.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

I think you did a good job on the low end and low midrange. Levels there seem just about right to me. The only nitpick I'd have is with the kick. It seems to have a low end boost and a low-mid cut. Just a guess. Those EQ moves seem a bit extreme. The kick has a bouncy-rubber-ball sound to it. I think a more natural kick sound would be preferable. Bass sounds real good to my ear.

The atmosphere of the song is cool. Not my thing musically, but I still think it's done well. Good use of reverb.

Cool, thanks trip. I know you're not generally a reverb fan, so it's good to hear from you that the balance is good there. Same with the mix itself - thanks for your thoughts on the balance.

Re. the kick, I'll have to take a listen when I have some speakers and my DAW in front of me. The kick is on the same track as the snare currently, so both have the same processing. I don't think I specifically made any EQ cuts, but I do have a pre-amp on which may have coloured the sound in that way and there may be some gating that's cutting off the tail and contributing too. I'll separate the kick out and see if I can get that addressed.

I'm glad it worked, even if it wasn't your style. Thanks very much

 

[rayc]

Is good mate. The 1st time the organ is in it seems a little loud but it either drops a little or I became used to it as the song progressed.
No mid mud issues in my ears - though they're my ears.
The only thing I'd consider as a possible addition to the arrangement is some sparkling guitar in spots - the sparkle of Fripp/Eno Evening Star https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REkbY-eEuus or Gangajang's Sounds of Then GANGgajang - Sounds Of Then - YouTube
Having said & suggested that I rather like it as it is

 

[heatmiser]

The only thing I'd consider as a possible addition to the arrangement is some sparkling guitar in spots

Ha! I think that's exactly what I supposed to do for him. That's kind of what he asked for...well, not sparkling, but atmospheric I think? Anyway, what I finally gave him was kind of nondescript.

I think the mix sounds really good rob. I too think it's pretty restrained in terms of the arrangement and I certainly don't think you should think you went too far or anything. Overall, it actually comes across to me as kind of sparse, but not in a bad way. Thanks for letting me throw some stuff in there.

 

[robgreen]

Is good mate. The 1st time the organ is in it seems a little loud but it either drops a little or I became used to it as the song progressed.
No mid mud issues in my ears - though they're my ears.
The only thing I'd consider as a possible addition to the arrangement is some sparkling guitar in spots - the sparkle of Fripp/Eno Evening Star Fripp & Eno - Evening Star - Evening Star - YouTube or Gangajang's Sounds of Then GANGgajang - Sounds Of Then - YouTube
Having said & suggested that I rather like it as it is

Excellent, thanks for your thoughts and your ears ray. Glad it sounded good. I don't think the organ came down in volume after it first comes in - it's maybe that the rest of the arrangement fills out a bit more? I only had chance to have a very quick listen to the Fripp/Eno tune on ear buds, but there may be some mileage there and I'll check the other one out properly when I've got some speakers. Thanks as ever man

Ha! I think that's exactly what I supposed to do for him. That's kind of what he asked for...well, not sparkling, but atmospheric I think? Anyway, what I finally gave him was kind of nondescript.

I think the mix sounds really good rob. I too think it's pretty restrained in terms of the arrangement and I certainly don't think you should think you went too far or anything. Overall, it actually comes across to me as kind of sparse, but not in a bad way. Thanks for letting me throw some stuff in there.

It's all good Pete - thanks a lot for your contribution anyway.

Seems like my fears that I'd overloaded it were unfounded, and if anything, the wrong way round. Maybe it does need to be a bit more dynamic or something. I've got some good suggestions from DM and Ray in that regard, so I'll have a mess about and see if any fit when I get chance.

 

[Tadpui]

I like this a lot, Rob. Sounds good overall in my cans. The snare might benefit from a little treatment to make it more wet and stout (that's what she said). It sounds dry and abruptly percussive compared to the rest of the mix. Maybe a little EQ to round it off a bit, or some of that hall reverb to set it into the environment a bit more.

Cool song, great vibe. It really works as a set piece.

 

[Brian Miller]

Hey man, thanks for sharing this, I enjoyed it. Some thoughts:

-The word "light" is flat almost every time. Melodyne that!
-I agree with Tadpui in that the snare could use some nice verb.
-Kick has a nice, anassuming thump that worked well.
-I thought the organ sat really nicely in the mix, as opposed to others in this thread, so I guess it's a matter of taste.
-From 2:15 forward, I would try to change things up as the piece drones on (in a good way). Perhaps automate a slow increase in the volume of the rhythm guitar, or some slow volume swelling of various elements at various times.
-Whatever that voice over is, it's positively creepy and fantastic.

Great job man, keep up the good work!

 

[ido1957]

The drum pattern is kinda out of sync with the flow of the music. I would prefer a straight 3/4 beat with the odd roll here and there.
There's something in there that sounds out of tune. Not sure if it is but it sounds like it to me.
The mix itself is good - I think it's balanced ok and the tone/eq is where it needs to be.
Considering it's just two chords it has enough instrumental variety to keep me interested.
Sounds like a RAYC tune - Gimli's Lament - on first listen, a combination of ambience and pattern.

 

[Bubba po]

Really like it, Rob. I couldn't help wishing there was a dramatic guitar to come in at some point something like on Pink Floyd's "Echoes". Nice one.

 

[kcearl]

wow, your mixings really improved Rob...much more room and dynamics in this compared to your earlier mixes

got nothing...I liked the whole experience. Id maybe plus one on idos comments about the drums, but didnt spoil the listening at all

good job mate

 

[Chili]

Without reading the other posts....

I thought the organ started out too prominent in the intro. Later on, it sat nicely in the mix.
I thought the snare never fell into place. Out front and not the same space.
Maybe it got a little repetitive before the vocals came in. But once it got to that point, I thought it sounded great. So, I'm okay with the long build-up. It's nice to have a song breathe and take time to develop.

I especially liked the ending. simple chords. Subtle, yet expressive.

Is there any significance to the phrase "Light the moon"?

 

[robgreen]

I like this a lot, Rob. Sounds good overall in my cans. The snare might benefit from a little treatment to make it more wet and stout (that's what she said). It sounds dry and abruptly percussive compared to the rest of the mix. Maybe a little EQ to round it off a bit, or some of that hall reverb to set it into the environment a bit more.

Cool song, great vibe. It really works as a set piece.

Hey Tadpui, thanks a lot for checking this out and I'm glad it sounded good to you. I think you make a good point about the drums - I never quite found the right balance on this first mix. They sound nice and full when solo'd, but then a lot of that fullness is masked in the mix and just the thinner sounds come through. I wasn't really sure how to bring it out more, but I'll play around with the EQ and see if I can work it out. I don't think there's any reverb on the snare at all, as I thought it needed to be dry to anchor the soundscape - I can definitely look into it though. Thanks for taking the time, hopefully hear something from you in here again soon

Hey man, thanks for sharing this, I enjoyed it. Some thoughts:

-The word "light" is flat almost every time. Melodyne that!
-I agree with Tadpui in that the snare could use some nice verb.
-Kick has a nice, anassuming thump that worked well.
-I thought the organ sat really nicely in the mix, as opposed to others in this thread, so I guess it's a matter of taste.
-From 2:15 forward, I would try to change things up as the piece drones on (in a good way). Perhaps automate a slow increase in the volume of the rhythm guitar, or some slow volume swelling of various elements at various times.
-Whatever that voice over is, it's positively creepy and fantastic.

Great job man, keep up the good work!

That's some great feedback, thanks a lot Brian.

I'll check out my pitching of flat, I must have fallen into a bad habit that I maintained during tracking. I can just re-record those parts if needed. Good idea on the volume automations - I think they're just the same throughout currently, so some swells could add some nice variation.

I agree on the voiceover too, I loved it and thought it would fit well in the piece. It's actually a reading of Ulysses that I lifted from a documentary about John Glenn, so all round a good fit. Thanks again for your thoughts Brian

 

[robgreen]

The drum pattern is kinda out of sync with the flow of the music. I would prefer a straight 3/4 beat with the odd roll here and there.
There's something in there that sounds out of tune. Not sure if it is but it sounds like it to me.
The mix itself is good - I think it's balanced ok and the tone/eq is where it needs to be.
Considering it's just two chords it has enough instrumental variety to keep me interested.
Sounds like a RAYC tune - Gimli's Lament - on first listen, a combination of ambience and pattern.

Cool, thanks a lot ido. Yeah, I think ray and I often swim in similar sonic waters and I know/enjoy the song of his that you mention. I'm glad to hear that there's enough interest in there - I enjoyed the challenge of trying to write a 3min+ largely instrumental song with just two chords with progression and changes.

I'll have a think about the drums - they do seem to be the area that needs the most work still. They're also the element that I have the least competence in, so I tend to just peck around blindly until I eventually get as close to the idea in my head as I can. Good to hear that the mix balance is good too. Cheers ido, I appreciate it

Really like it, Rob. I couldn't help wishing there was a dramatic guitar to come in at some point something like on Pink Floyd's "Echoes". Nice one.

Ace, thanks Bubba. I do like the album that Echoes is on, and your comment made me think that there's a bit of a nod to One of Those Days from that album that I hadn't really picked up on before. I've had a few good suggestions in the thread regarding some guitar parts, which I've started playing around with. I haven't hit upon anything that works yet, but some more dramatic guitar may be coming when I get an update done. Cheers man

wow, your mixings really improved Rob...much more room and dynamics in this compared to your earlier mixes

got nothing...I liked the whole experience. Id maybe plus one on idos comments about the drums, but didnt spoil the listening at all

good job mate

Awesome, it's probably been a while since you heard something new from me kc, so I'm glad that there's been some audible improvement made in the last year or so. It's all down to this place giving me good suggestions and making me hear my stuff in a different way. Also, I've been using your remix as a reference point when mixing, which has helped a lot.

Really glad you enjoyed it - hopefully some drum tweaks when I get chance to update. Thanks man

Without reading the other posts....

I thought the organ started out too prominent in the intro. Later on, it sat nicely in the mix.
I thought the snare never fell into place. Out front and not the same space.
Maybe it got a little repetitive before the vocals came in. But once it got to that point, I thought it sounded great. So, I'm okay with the long build-up. It's nice to have a song breathe and take time to develop.

I especially liked the ending. simple chords. Subtle, yet expressive.

Is there any significance to the phrase "Light the moon"?

Great feedback too, thanks Chili. You and Ray are probably right that the organ might be a touch loud in the first couple of bars - it seems to settle in once the arrangement fills out, so I'll look at nudging down the early stages.

Another comment on the snare suggests that that's a priority for the update. Also, if I can work out a bit more guitar for the first section, then it may address the repetitiveness without too much else needed there.

Nice comments on the ending too - the temptation was initially just to finish with all the instruments at once, but they do sound nice.

The phrase itself refers to the Roman moon goddess Diana. I had this book on the Romans as a kid and I came across again it back at my parent's house recently. There was a section on mythology that had a couple of stories in like Diana lighting up the moon and Helios & Phaeton driving chariots across the sun. They were such great, fantastical stories and it got me thinking about how they developed in the first place. How we invent comforting fictions to explain away what we don't understand or justify our existence to ourselves. That's the pretentious explanation - the non-pretentious one is that I just needed a self-contained phrase that I could repeat as an incantation...

Thanks again Chili, I got some excellent feedback on this one.

 

[robgreen]

Right, I think I need to draw a line under this tune. I've kept it on the backburner for a while hoping that some more inspiration would come to me, but I've drawn a blank & am now too familiar with it to hear it any other way.

Here's a new mix (OP has the new mix too) with a new guitar line in the first part to add more interest, endless tweaking of levels to add some more depth, a number of volume swells here and there (though I'm not sure they come through very much) and an attempt to make the snare fit better.

Efforts to tighten up the vocals, change the beat or build in more radical changes to the mix all came to nowt unfortunately. If anyone has the time to give the update a quick listen and let me know how it sounds, I'd be much obliged:

New Mix:


Old mix for reference: Diana Light The Moon - Old Mix

Thanks