DI Box the solution?

[RAK]

The important thing here is that the relationship between output impedance and input impedance in the circuit determines the voltage a device is able to put into a given input. You could use Ohm's law and suss out the current flows and stuff, but this is about signal (voltage) transfer, not power. You can pretty much disregard the currents involved, and just look at the effect the circuit has on the voltages.

Current and Power are two different things. There's that language again. Let's not just focus on V=IR though, we can't forget about P=IV, which also means that P=IIR.
Not that any of this has anything to do with what you're talking about of course. But who doesn't like math?

Nice explanation of transformers and DIs though. Again, that's what I was trying to get across the whole time by saying it a lot more simply.

Just because I'm newer to this board, doesn't mean I'm a newbie.

 

[RAK]

I just wanted to say THANK YOU to boingoman for taking the time to explain this in such detail. This thread should be made a sticky because of it. I think now even the gentlemen over at Shure should be able to understand it

Thanks Man!

Once again, I was with you the whole time, just trying to keep things simple. But thanks for telling me I understand now. I really appreciate that.

 

[RAK]

The reason you have to push the gain so much is because your guitar level is lower than the level the line input on hte Yamaha is looking for. If you use a DI, that will convert the guitar level to Mic level, and then you hook the XLR output into one the XLR Mic Ins on the Yamaha, and should be straight.

Microphone, Instrument, and Line are all different levels, so it's best to match them up.

So this was my original response, if I had instead said "If you use a DI this will change the impedance from that of an instrument to the impedance that a mic input is looking for. . ." Would that have been better?

And besides, instrument level IS lower than line level. Microphones are low level/low impedance devices. I just wasn't seperating the two in this post.

Not sure how any of this changes what I already knew.

 

[boingoman]

No, I didn't say that at all. I am saying that sometimes vocab you use when you communicate with someone depends on the audience. When I speak with international associates, I don't use large words that he or she may not know.

A couple of questions-

1) What makes you think the guy wouldn't understand?

2) How does using simple language relate to the fact that RAK gave him a bunch of incomplete and misleading information?

I like how you always have to insult people to get your point across.

I'm working on that issue, junior. For which you should thank your lucky stars. I got set off when RAK told me to "relax" after I pointed out his errors, and you are his little buddy. It's probably good this didn't happen a few months ago, I hate to make people cry.

I'll tell you what really bothers me. It's this:

Manufacturer - Shure, Inc

I know you guys aren't here as official company reps. But when you flounder and backtrack and try to weasel out of it when people tell you you are wrong or being misleading or vague with that under your screennames while telling me to "relax" I want to puke.

 

[RAK]

A couple of questions-

1) What makes you think the guy wouldn't understand?

2) How does using simple language relate to the fact that RAK gave him a bunch of incomplete and misleading information?




I'm working on that issue, junior. For which you should thank your lucky stars. I got set off when RAK told me to "relax" after I pointed out his errors, and you are his little buddy. It's probably good this didn't happen a few months ago, I hate to make people cry.

I'll tell you what really bothers me. It's this:

Manufacturer - Shure, Inc

I know you guys aren't here as official company reps. But when you flounder and backtrack and try to weasel out of it when people tell you you are wrong or being misleading or vague with that under your screennames while telling me to "relax" I want to puke.

The reason we put that under our names is purely in the interest of full disclosure, so If I'm ever talking about a Shure product, people know that's who I work for. It is in NO way to try an say I'm better than anyone else.
I didn't mean to set you off, but I didn't really have errors. In all practical purposes a DI takes a guitar which is at a certain level/impedance and allows it to interface properly with a microphone level/impedance input. That is exactly what I was trying to get across in my very first post. Again see my post before this one, would it have been better if I worded it that way, you didn't respond to that?

Tell me what would have happened if this were a few months ago?

Why didn't you jump on Scrubs when he said that a DI won't add any gain, when we know an Active DI can do that?

The first question was can he use a DI to interface the guitar with the mixers line input, that's why I wanted to keep things real simple, to say, no, the DI connects to the mic input.

As far as I know I haven't squirmed, weaseled, or back-tracked out of anything. And you're correct, in no way do I represent Shure as a member of this board. I only represent myself as a member of the professional audio community (and I'm referring to my life before Shure)

 

[boingoman]

So this was my original response, if I had instead said "If you use a DI this will change the impedance from that of an instrument to the impedance that a mic input is looking for. . ." Would that have been better?

Yeah, because it would have been correct.

 

[boingoman]

Tell me what would have happened if this were a few months ago?

I would have flamed you to within an inch of your life.

Why didn't you jump on Scrubs when he said that a DI won't add any gain, when we know an Active DI can do that?

A few active DIs do that. They are usually labelled as having a boost circuit, such as the Rapco ADB+8. Tell you the truth, I didn't see scrub's post.

And I didn't jump on you. That's where the words "No offense" come into play.

The first question was can he use a DI to interface the guitar with the mixers line input, that's why I wanted to keep things real simple, to say, no, the DI connects to the mic input.

But that's not all you said. You also said the DI would convert his instrument signal to mic level, which you have no way of knowing. That was incorrect information. Wrong, in other words.

 

[Farview]

The reason we put that under our names is purely in the interest of full disclosure, so If I'm ever talking about a Shure product, people know that's who I work for.

If I were upper managment at Shure, I would ask you to keep that a secret. You seem to be a magnet for these stupid pissing matches. Your defensive attitude doesn't help matters either.

 

[RAK]

If I were upper managment at Shure, I would ask you to keep that a secret. You seem to be a magnet for these stupid pissing matches. Your defensive attitude doesn't help matters either.

Keep what a secret? Many boards such as this have a policy that MOT (members of the trade) have to state who they work for in their name or signature. Not sure if this board officially has that policy.

I'm not being defensive (he said in a not defensive tone). Sorry if you intreprted it that way. I guess it can be hard to hear someone's tone over the internet. I'm just trying to clear up what I said, that's all. I'm not being sarcastic or mean or anything, and I honestly don't feel I have anything to be defensive about.

If I'm a magnet for anything I can't explain it.

 

[RAK]

I would have flamed you to within an inch of your life.

What does that mean?

But that's not all you said. You also said the DI would convert his instrument signal to mic level, which you have no way of knowing. That was incorrect information. Wrong, in other words.

All I meant by that is that you take an instrument level/impedance signal and convert/attenuate/change/whatever to a mic level/impedance. level and impedance go hand in hand if you ask me, and many people think of them together. In fact just today Jimmy2Sticks told me about speaking with engineers who used the two terms interchangebly. Now, I'm not saying that they're the same thing, they're not. Nor am I saying your explanations of transformers & impedance is wrong, it wasn't. It was very nice in fact, which I have already said as well.

I guess all I was saying was that guitar goes into DI which goes into mic pre. guitars operate at a level and impedance generally known as instrument level/impedance, and mic pres operate at a level generally known as microphone level/impedance. You said yourself that a passive DI attenuates the signal. Is that all the way down to mic level? maybe not. I think of the two in the same breath.

 

[RAK]

tough crowd

 

[TripleJ]

Wow I think you just blew a few neurons in my brain.

Can anyone tell me whether a passive DI will do or whether I need an active?

 

[Farview]

Wow I think you just blew a few neurons in my brain.

Can anyone tell me whether a passive DI will do or whether I need an active?

If you are plugging in a guitar with passive pickups, you are better off with an active DI. With Keyboards, guitars with active pickups, etc.... It doesn't matter. The sound of the DI box becomes the issue instead of whether it's active or not.