Benreturns
New member
also ...
What is a DAT machine?
What is a DAT machine?
Confused, in need of help?
- Thread starter Benreturns
- Start date
BillyFurnett
New member
Ok Ben ( It seems in recording that you are forever the teacher AND the student...,so you can't drop out on yourself.)
You are PRETTY close (And in part are very much right!)
SOME mixers have BUILT IN EFFECTS (Such as reverb and who knows what else?) So in SOME cases you COULD 'PROCESS' the signal on it's way down it's path or hall or tunnel (Sort of) yes, BUT USUALLY (NOT ALWAYS) what would happen is that you would employ 'OUTBOARD GEAR' which means other units (Outside of the mixer) that do various tasks to the signals (Usually each unit does one thing really well, like a good reverb unit will pretty much just do no nonsense kick ass reverb. SOME very good units do a few things.)
Ok (Remember I mentioned mixers doing other "Side features?"), well the way effects USUALLY fit into the picture is by means of one of these Side Features called "THE EFFECTS SEND & RETURN" This is pretty simple really... See, when the signal comes into the mixer (Like the frontdoor) it can sort of be walking towards the "Back Door" (The Direct Out) , BUT you can kind of tell it to step out of a "SIDE DOOR" The side door is another way Out of the mixer (House) AND a way back In.
So you can tell the signal to go out the side door BEFORE it gets to the back door (Direct Out).
So what happens to the signal when it goes out the side door?
The side door is called the "EFFECTS SEND" AND the "EFFECTS RETURN." There are USUALLY two Jacks (Sometimes more) on a Mixer that we can think of the sidedoor
The Effects Send Jack and the Effects Return Jack.
Now for a little recap.. The signal has come into the Mixer (House) through the Input (Frontdoor) and is headed for the DIRECT OUT (BACKDOOR) but you tell it to hold off of going out the backdoor and instead send it out the Effects Send (side door).
What happens is you hook up a cable (Or cables) to the Effects Send so the signal travels out of the Mixer, down the cable and into A EFFECTS UNIT ( A PIECE OF OUTBOARD GEAR: A seperate box that effects the signals sound.. it could be a Reverb unit the siganal passes through making it sound "Echoy" )
Now you decide "Enough of this effecting, you get in here and get out that back door and damnit look at you...You're all Echoy and sounding like a huge canyon!"
Well the signal needs a way to Return from the effects unit and get back into the Mixer (House) through the side door it went out of...Now how is that gonna happen??
Well ANOTHER CABLE hooks up that the signal travels down back into the Mixer FROM THE EFFECTS UNIT.
What do you suppose the Jack that that cable hooks up to is called??? Lets see, it's has to do with Effects AND it IS Returning into the sidedoor back into the mixer.... AH HA! It must be the EFFECTS RETURN!!!!!
YES! The side door is no damn side door! It's simply TWO JACKS (One leading out of the mixer called) EFFECTS SEND (And one leading back into the mixer called) EFFECTS RETURN!!
So can see that the signal has gone out the Effects Send (Because you are sending it to the seperate unit (For example a Reverb unit) and then the signal is Returning to the Mixer into the Effects Return?
This is the Send and Return (SOMETIMES the Return is called "Recieve".. You may also see the term "Effects Loop" which is another way to call the going out and coming back in of the signal through the Send and Return.
(Now dig this!... Ok, signals are USUALLY recorded to the multitrack "DRY" (With no effects) (An exception MIGHT BE Compression.... SOMETIMES you send the signal to a compressor and then to the recorder.) The reason you'd USUALLY want the signals "Dry" is that you don't want to be stuck with an effected sound on the recording. (Because what if it sounded cool at first, but then you realize you played a master piece guitar solo, but now it sounds it like junk because of all the effects on it? AND they are recorded! So you'll have to do it over to get rid of them!... Screw that!) SO, the way around that nightmare is to use the Effects send and Return at mixdown!!
So when all the recorded sounds are coming back into the mixer you can THEN tell one to go out the side door, tehn when it returns it goes (with all the other signals) to the CD recorder or cassette deck (or whatever) and is recorded there with the effect on it.
SO it looks like you have everything right in your post BUT
I don't understand what you mean by the Mastering Effects Processors (Unless you mean Effects processors used at mixdown like I just described OR there are some digital mastering processors I'm unaware of.)
When I mentioned Mastering I meant it as in terms of how (SOMETIMES) people mix everything to a STEREO TWO TRACK and THEN USUALLY (OR SOMETIMES) another guy sends the Left singal and the right signal through a mixer and it goes through various tasks of FINAL EQ and COMPRESSING AND LEVEL SETTING... THEN it goes to a recorder that makes the CD you buy at the store.
(Mastering really isn't something to even worry about yet at all)
As far as how that 2424 works...I have no idea. (Sorry)
Do searches on Effects units and tell me a few kinds AND do a search on this bbs about INSERTS and what they do for next time.
Be cool
You are PRETTY close (And in part are very much right!)
SOME mixers have BUILT IN EFFECTS (Such as reverb and who knows what else?) So in SOME cases you COULD 'PROCESS' the signal on it's way down it's path or hall or tunnel (Sort of) yes, BUT USUALLY (NOT ALWAYS) what would happen is that you would employ 'OUTBOARD GEAR' which means other units (Outside of the mixer) that do various tasks to the signals (Usually each unit does one thing really well, like a good reverb unit will pretty much just do no nonsense kick ass reverb. SOME very good units do a few things.)
Ok (Remember I mentioned mixers doing other "Side features?"), well the way effects USUALLY fit into the picture is by means of one of these Side Features called "THE EFFECTS SEND & RETURN" This is pretty simple really... See, when the signal comes into the mixer (Like the frontdoor) it can sort of be walking towards the "Back Door" (The Direct Out) , BUT you can kind of tell it to step out of a "SIDE DOOR" The side door is another way Out of the mixer (House) AND a way back In.
So you can tell the signal to go out the side door BEFORE it gets to the back door (Direct Out).
So what happens to the signal when it goes out the side door?
The side door is called the "EFFECTS SEND" AND the "EFFECTS RETURN." There are USUALLY two Jacks (Sometimes more) on a Mixer that we can think of the sidedoor
The Effects Send Jack and the Effects Return Jack.
Now for a little recap.. The signal has come into the Mixer (House) through the Input (Frontdoor) and is headed for the DIRECT OUT (BACKDOOR) but you tell it to hold off of going out the backdoor and instead send it out the Effects Send (side door).
What happens is you hook up a cable (Or cables) to the Effects Send so the signal travels out of the Mixer, down the cable and into A EFFECTS UNIT ( A PIECE OF OUTBOARD GEAR: A seperate box that effects the signals sound.. it could be a Reverb unit the siganal passes through making it sound "Echoy" )
Now you decide "Enough of this effecting, you get in here and get out that back door and damnit look at you...You're all Echoy and sounding like a huge canyon!"
Well the signal needs a way to Return from the effects unit and get back into the Mixer (House) through the side door it went out of...Now how is that gonna happen??
Well ANOTHER CABLE hooks up that the signal travels down back into the Mixer FROM THE EFFECTS UNIT.
What do you suppose the Jack that that cable hooks up to is called??? Lets see, it's has to do with Effects AND it IS Returning into the sidedoor back into the mixer.... AH HA! It must be the EFFECTS RETURN!!!!!
YES! The side door is no damn side door! It's simply TWO JACKS (One leading out of the mixer called) EFFECTS SEND (And one leading back into the mixer called) EFFECTS RETURN!!
So can see that the signal has gone out the Effects Send (Because you are sending it to the seperate unit (For example a Reverb unit) and then the signal is Returning to the Mixer into the Effects Return?
This is the Send and Return (SOMETIMES the Return is called "Recieve".. You may also see the term "Effects Loop" which is another way to call the going out and coming back in of the signal through the Send and Return.
(Now dig this!... Ok, signals are USUALLY recorded to the multitrack "DRY" (With no effects) (An exception MIGHT BE Compression.... SOMETIMES you send the signal to a compressor and then to the recorder.) The reason you'd USUALLY want the signals "Dry" is that you don't want to be stuck with an effected sound on the recording. (Because what if it sounded cool at first, but then you realize you played a master piece guitar solo, but now it sounds it like junk because of all the effects on it? AND they are recorded! So you'll have to do it over to get rid of them!... Screw that!) SO, the way around that nightmare is to use the Effects send and Return at mixdown!!
So when all the recorded sounds are coming back into the mixer you can THEN tell one to go out the side door, tehn when it returns it goes (with all the other signals) to the CD recorder or cassette deck (or whatever) and is recorded there with the effect on it.
SO it looks like you have everything right in your post BUT
I don't understand what you mean by the Mastering Effects Processors (Unless you mean Effects processors used at mixdown like I just described OR there are some digital mastering processors I'm unaware of.)
When I mentioned Mastering I meant it as in terms of how (SOMETIMES) people mix everything to a STEREO TWO TRACK and THEN USUALLY (OR SOMETIMES) another guy sends the Left singal and the right signal through a mixer and it goes through various tasks of FINAL EQ and COMPRESSING AND LEVEL SETTING... THEN it goes to a recorder that makes the CD you buy at the store.
(Mastering really isn't something to even worry about yet at all)
As far as how that 2424 works...I have no idea. (Sorry)
Do searches on Effects units and tell me a few kinds AND do a search on this bbs about INSERTS and what they do for next time.
Be cool
Benreturns
New member
Well i have an effects unti hooked up to my Tascam 488mkII at the moment. Ive managed to hook it up as a send return effect, by trial and error trying all the holes out and without understanding the principals to well. It has reverb and delay on it as well as a mastering feature to add punch and stuff to mixes. I quite enjoy trying its things out (ive had it 3 weeks).
I also have a compressor/limiter/gate which really baffles me. I manage to get the sounds I want,b ut only after playing about aimlessly with it. I use it to make my bass pump. Its connected via an insert point and i believe this treats the signal before the EQ stage on my portastudio??its connected using about 4 jack adapters as i do not have the proper cable. What is this cable i need?? has it got a special name? At the moment its mono and stereo OUT of the compressor (using a 1/8" 2 into one jack splitter) and a mono jack IN to the comrpessor. These are both connected into insert point one on my tascam via another jack splitter (1/4") could i save on adapters and cables and buy a specialist lead for this??
Thanks again for the help billy!
I also have a compressor/limiter/gate which really baffles me. I manage to get the sounds I want,b ut only after playing about aimlessly with it. I use it to make my bass pump. Its connected via an insert point and i believe this treats the signal before the EQ stage on my portastudio??its connected using about 4 jack adapters as i do not have the proper cable. What is this cable i need?? has it got a special name? At the moment its mono and stereo OUT of the compressor (using a 1/8" 2 into one jack splitter) and a mono jack IN to the comrpessor. These are both connected into insert point one on my tascam via another jack splitter (1/4") could i save on adapters and cables and buy a specialist lead for this??
Thanks again for the help billy!
BillyFurnett
New member
Ok Awesome man! You already know what the insert is all about.
I don't really understand all your connections (I'm tired is why) and I don't know the units you are using, but usually (Not always) a 1/4 inch TSR (Tip Ring Sleeve) cable is used... It looks like a 1/4 stereo plug on one end that Y's to two mono 1/4 inch plugs like at this link about making them:
http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/ringtip.html
At the moment I have no simple ways to describe how it works other than it acts as a send and recieve, but sends the whole of the channels signal as opposed to only a percentage of it like the Effects Send does.
Dude you have learned as much as I know and as much as I can tell you about... Happy recording Ben.
-Billy-
I don't really understand all your connections (I'm tired is why) and I don't know the units you are using, but usually (Not always) a 1/4 inch TSR (Tip Ring Sleeve) cable is used... It looks like a 1/4 stereo plug on one end that Y's to two mono 1/4 inch plugs like at this link about making them:
http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/ringtip.html
At the moment I have no simple ways to describe how it works other than it acts as a send and recieve, but sends the whole of the channels signal as opposed to only a percentage of it like the Effects Send does.
Dude you have learned as much as I know and as much as I can tell you about... Happy recording Ben.
-Billy-
Benreturns said:
If you want to compress after Eqing then the best way is to bring the signal back into one (or two if you're compressing a stereo track) input(s). How you get the signal from the 488 to the compressor, I have no idea. That's ARP's territory.
By the way. The cable you need is a Y Cord. I have one I'd be willing to let you have.
Benreturns
New member
You would?
That would be great Mark. Your a leicester lad aren't you? Id collect, but until i stop learning to kill people on the road im not gonna pass my driving test! How much would it be + postage?
Will this be ok to hook my compressor via the insert point?
That would be great Mark. Your a leicester lad aren't you? Id collect, but until i stop learning to kill people on the road im not gonna pass my driving test! How much would it be + postage?
Will this be ok to hook my compressor via the insert point?
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Ben's got the basic schemes worked out by now,...
about INSERT, BUSS, and EFFECT-SEND-RCV.
The 488mkII does not give a generous amount of patch points, like some previous units, [the 244, 246 & M30 mixer]. The 488mkII simply gives you an INSERT on MIC channels 1 & 2, and EFFECT-SEND-RCV-1 & 2, and that's it.
I believe Ben has gotten the hang of the 488mkII by now, & I can't add to much to the equation.
about INSERT, BUSS, and EFFECT-SEND-RCV.
The 488mkII does not give a generous amount of patch points, like some previous units, [the 244, 246 & M30 mixer]. The 488mkII simply gives you an INSERT on MIC channels 1 & 2, and EFFECT-SEND-RCV-1 & 2, and that's it.
I believe Ben has gotten the hang of the 488mkII by now, & I can't add to much to the equation.
Re: You would?
I'll dig it out and pack it up and then let you know how much the postage is. To be honest I can't remember how much I paid for it so I might as well let you have it for nowt.
And, yes it will be okay to hook your compressor up via the Insert Point with. That's the kind of thing it was designed for
Benreturns said:
I'll dig it out and pack it up and then let you know how much the postage is. To be honest I can't remember how much I paid for it so I might as well let you have it for nowt.
And, yes it will be okay to hook your compressor up via the Insert Point with. That's the kind of thing it was designed for
BillyFurnett
New member
Hey that's REALLY cool of you Mark7.
(Don't forget to check my mates Band 'Junk TV' on the Virgin Records 'Best unsigned bands in the UK' CD)
(Don't forget to check my mates Band 'Junk TV' on the Virgin Records 'Best unsigned bands in the UK' CD)
Benreturns
New member
Cheers Mark!
Check your PM...
Check your PM...
Benreturns
New member
Well if you let me know when you send it and by which way, il let you know if there will be someone around or i can stick a note on the door for it to be taken to my next door neighbors or something?
Appreciate this mate!
Appreciate this mate!
Benreturns
New member
When i get my new cable of course!
hehheh
Well, ive been recording seriously for about 2 weeks now (i used to have a 414mkII which i did rough demos on and didnt really understand the whole recording process), since i got an effects unit. I have:
Tascam 488mkII
Active Monitors
Behringer Compressor
Zoom Multi effects
A guitar + amp (doubles as bass after 30mins adjusting equipment for right sound!)
A keyboard (with drum machine for simple percussive effects)
A drum kit
Comfy seat.
A large diaphram condenser mic
A dynamic mic
Taken me about 4 months to assemble since i started working full time (im 20 by the way)
Been working on one track for a week or two (first ive attempted)
Just needs 2 vocal tracks adding then thats done ready for mixdown.
I aim to do 3 of my songs (wrote about 15 im happy with) and send them off to every address i can find. I write commercial shit and my influences run from the Beatles (the masters) to modern chart R n B. Its all good! Commercial stuff aint so bad if you can make a million. If i do i'l buy this board and sponsor it!
hehheh
Well, ive been recording seriously for about 2 weeks now (i used to have a 414mkII which i did rough demos on and didnt really understand the whole recording process), since i got an effects unit. I have:
Tascam 488mkII
Active Monitors
Behringer Compressor
Zoom Multi effects
A guitar + amp (doubles as bass after 30mins adjusting equipment for right sound!)
A keyboard (with drum machine for simple percussive effects)
A drum kit
Comfy seat.
A large diaphram condenser mic
A dynamic mic
Taken me about 4 months to assemble since i started working full time (im 20 by the way)
Been working on one track for a week or two (first ive attempted)
Just needs 2 vocal tracks adding then thats done ready for mixdown.
I aim to do 3 of my songs (wrote about 15 im happy with) and send them off to every address i can find. I write commercial shit and my influences run from the Beatles (the masters) to modern chart R n B. Its all good! Commercial stuff aint so bad if you can make a million. If i do i'l buy this board and sponsor it!
Benreturns
New member
Well i actually only use the snare, hi-hat, cymbal and floor tom tom (which doubles as a bass drum!) When recording I'l put the snare and bass drum/floor tom tom on one track then the cymbal/hi-hats on another track emphasising the treble. Sometimes if my things got a R n B flavour to it i might use the keyboards sounds for drums.
I cant write a proper R n B song though. Its gotta have melody as well as groove. Thats where my Beatles/Beach boys/kinks influences come in! All my songs have at least 1 harmony part with the lead vocal. Usually two at some point.
I cant write a proper R n B song though. Its gotta have melody as well as groove. Thats where my Beatles/Beach boys/kinks influences come in! All my songs have at least 1 harmony part with the lead vocal. Usually two at some point.
If you like the Beach Boys you should take a listen to The Simple Carnival.
So you haven't quite mastered the art of playing three instruments at once yet!?
So you haven't quite mastered the art of playing three instruments at once yet!?
Benreturns
New member
Nah, i cant quite get my big toe to pluck the right strings yet!
Haven't had a chance to download that link yet... but thy will be done. When you put your stuff on there is there anything to protect/copywrite? Tho i suppse the fact that you posted it on a certain date holds a certain amount of proof that the song is yours!
Haven't had a chance to download that link yet... but thy will be done. When you put your stuff on there is there anything to protect/copywrite? Tho i suppse the fact that you posted it on a certain date holds a certain amount of proof that the song is yours!
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
I used to sing, play guitar, bass, & trigger a keyboard note or sequence with my toe!
Is that what you mean? Ha.
Is that what you mean? Ha.