I'm weighing my options right now for a studio that I might be starting with a friend. We wanna have more than one format to record with (like most studios) such as reel to reel, ADAT, and either a computer or a stand-alone hard disk recorder (such as the Tascam MX-2424, which is VERY expensive). Would I get better quality buy just building a sweet system (AMD Thunderbird 1Ghz, 256MB to 512MB RAM, several hard drives) and having a good sound card (looking at the Hoontech) or should I look at a unit like the Tascam? I'm looking for 16 to 24 tracks.
Computer or Stand-Alone Digital?
- Thread starter El Barto
- Start date
With a 1G AMD and a Hoontech multi in/out card you will be getting much more than 16 or 24 tracks, I would say more on the order of 48 with FX on every track.
ADAT's in conjunction with DAW are a pretty solid set up. I do work in a few studios and I'd say that the most reliable set up that I work on is ADAT/DAW combo with a MOTU card. 24 in's at 24 bit is a beautiful thing for a studio to have!
Another thing is that expanding or upgrading a DAW is much easier than a hardware digi recorder. Digi hex is all the same, be it on a DAW or hardware, it has everything to do with what AD/DA converters and which codec that you are using.
ADAT's in conjunction with DAW are a pretty solid set up. I do work in a few studios and I'd say that the most reliable set up that I work on is ADAT/DAW combo with a MOTU card. 24 in's at 24 bit is a beautiful thing for a studio to have!
Another thing is that expanding or upgrading a DAW is much easier than a hardware digi recorder. Digi hex is all the same, be it on a DAW or hardware, it has everything to do with what AD/DA converters and which codec that you are using.
Scheisskopf99
New member
Computer vs. Stand-alone
I think the answer depends on how knowledgable you are with computers. Computers are a good way to go if you feel you have the technical savvy to deal with a lot of variables, settings, and controls. Otherwise they can be very frustrating. One other thing to think about is the abount of noise the computer will produce in your recordings. Your microphones may have a power supply fan hum in them if you record near the computer. Also, my monitor sometimes interferes with my electric guitar and effects and other electronics and creates background buzzing so I usually need to either turn off my monitor while recording or stand away from the computer. If you do get a computer for recording, you should look at some simplified recording software at first because it will save you a lot of headaches with controls, variables, and features you may never use. Powertracks Pro is a good choice. It runs $29, see http://www.pgmusic.com You don't need a real fast computer to record. I used a 400 MHz system for a while with no problems. Where speed becomes more essential is when you are mixing digital audio tracks with MIDI tracks. The MIDI can sometimes lag on slower computers during playback. Hope this helps.
I think the answer depends on how knowledgable you are with computers. Computers are a good way to go if you feel you have the technical savvy to deal with a lot of variables, settings, and controls. Otherwise they can be very frustrating. One other thing to think about is the abount of noise the computer will produce in your recordings. Your microphones may have a power supply fan hum in them if you record near the computer. Also, my monitor sometimes interferes with my electric guitar and effects and other electronics and creates background buzzing so I usually need to either turn off my monitor while recording or stand away from the computer. If you do get a computer for recording, you should look at some simplified recording software at first because it will save you a lot of headaches with controls, variables, and features you may never use. Powertracks Pro is a good choice. It runs $29, see http://www.pgmusic.com You don't need a real fast computer to record. I used a 400 MHz system for a while with no problems. Where speed becomes more essential is when you are mixing digital audio tracks with MIDI tracks. The MIDI can sometimes lag on slower computers during playback. Hope this helps.
skippy
New member
If you're looking at the Tascam, you might also want to look at the Fostex line of standalone HDRs. I have the D1624, and like it a great deal. I didn't want to do computer recording: I can't stand the Blue Screen Of Death when I'm trying to do something creative, and this site is full of stories of the difficulty of getting up to speed on computer recording.
The Fostex is simply a tapeless tape machine, which is exactly what I wanted for my application. It's a lot less expensive than the Tascam. They nickel-and-dime you a great deal less in building up a usable configuration. Fostex also just introduced their D2424, which comes bundeled with an RME Hammerfall PCI card and some transport control software for on the order of $4k.
The only problem I had with mine was acoustical noise, and I corrected that by taking it apart and doing some rework to quet it down. It is now quiet enough to use in the control room without a hushbox. I'm building a DAW to do some more sophisticated editing on, but you can do a huge amount with one of these boxes without having to screw with setting up a DAW. If you aren't completely comfortable with computer recording, this offers a very viable and reliable option.
The Fostex is simply a tapeless tape machine, which is exactly what I wanted for my application. It's a lot less expensive than the Tascam. They nickel-and-dime you a great deal less in building up a usable configuration. Fostex also just introduced their D2424, which comes bundeled with an RME Hammerfall PCI card and some transport control software for on the order of $4k.
The only problem I had with mine was acoustical noise, and I corrected that by taking it apart and doing some rework to quet it down. It is now quiet enough to use in the control room without a hushbox. I'm building a DAW to do some more sophisticated editing on, but you can do a huge amount with one of these boxes without having to screw with setting up a DAW. If you aren't completely comfortable with computer recording, this offers a very viable and reliable option.
Hard2Hear
New member
El Barto-
I currently use a DAW for recording (P3-733,384MB RAM,(2)20G 7200RPM HD's) and it's ok. The great thing is all of the plug-ins available that would cost way more in hard rack gear to duplicate.
But I'm realizing that that's about the only thing I DO like about it. Here's 4 things I don't like.
1. No fader controls at your fingertips to work with. Gets to be a huge pain when working a lot of tracks.
2. Storing audio tracks. I have a decent amount of HD space, but seeing how a CD only holds 720MB or something, it takes A LOT of backing up this data. I've had a couple crashes that would have lost all that work. A good tape backup system that one SHOULD use will cost 4-8K for 35-70GB backup.
3. PC Noise. When I record in the same room as my DAW, the fan kicks on and it can be noisy.
4. PC compatibility issues. I am a network analyst by trade, with MCSE and education behind me. I'm redarded as very good in my field. I still have lots of trouble getting a system to be 100% stable for audio recording. I really can't believe people who say they don't have any trouble at all. But there has to be something out there that works perfectly.
I currently use a DAW for recording (P3-733,384MB RAM,(2)20G 7200RPM HD's) and it's ok. The great thing is all of the plug-ins available that would cost way more in hard rack gear to duplicate.
But I'm realizing that that's about the only thing I DO like about it. Here's 4 things I don't like.
1. No fader controls at your fingertips to work with. Gets to be a huge pain when working a lot of tracks.
2. Storing audio tracks. I have a decent amount of HD space, but seeing how a CD only holds 720MB or something, it takes A LOT of backing up this data. I've had a couple crashes that would have lost all that work. A good tape backup system that one SHOULD use will cost 4-8K for 35-70GB backup.
3. PC Noise. When I record in the same room as my DAW, the fan kicks on and it can be noisy.
4. PC compatibility issues. I am a network analyst by trade, with MCSE and education behind me. I'm redarded as very good in my field. I still have lots of trouble getting a system to be 100% stable for audio recording. I really can't believe people who say they don't have any trouble at all. But there has to be something out there that works perfectly.
If you're coming from a background with other foramts like ADATS and such, the Tascam will have a MUCH smaller learning curve. On the other hand, all the plusses of computers in this post are definite plusses. If you have the time to learn the computer I'd say definately go for it. Especially if you're gonna have ADAT's and a reel-to-reel.
Jake
http://www.worthlessmusic.com
http://www.creation16.com
Jake
http://www.worthlessmusic.com
http://www.creation16.com
Thanks for all the replies. I figured computer would be the best route, just wanted to make sure. I am very "tech savvy" I guess you could say...everyone that knows me knows that I am very very good at computers and such (it may seem like a good thing, but when you have 50 people asking for help with their computer...). As far as stability goes, how about Win2K for recording? It's the best Windows I've ever used...pretty damn solid and stable. I've gone 2 weeks and 3 days without rebooting -- twice. I had to shut down to install new hardware 
As far as faders and EQ and such, I know what you mean. I was planning on getting a mixer and hooking it up to the computer. A Mackie or something better (whichever money permits). Which MOTU has 24 ins?
As far as faders and EQ and such, I know what you mean. I was planning on getting a mixer and hooking it up to the computer. A Mackie or something better (whichever money permits). Which MOTU has 24 ins?robert jaybird
New member
none of the major audio apps support windows 2k.
pro tools,logic,and cubase were all coded for mac and
ported to pc-on pc theyre all buggier.
it will work but you have to use a configuration the manufacturer reccomends.
any pc forum is filled with bs alien to the mac forums because most of the major softwares were originally coded for mac then ported to pc and actually work well on it.
motu's hardware works great with their software(wich is mac only). of your gonna use cubase get something different.
btw cubase for pc is unstable(as in its not a joke).
if you can afford nuendo get that instead, or get cakewalk or logic audio.
or get a mac and join the pro's
.
dont just buy any pc if your gonna get one make sure itll work with what you want.
if you get a mac youll have no troubles as far as that is concerned.
pro tools,logic,and cubase were all coded for mac and
ported to pc-on pc theyre all buggier.
it will work but you have to use a configuration the manufacturer reccomends.
any pc forum is filled with bs alien to the mac forums because most of the major softwares were originally coded for mac then ported to pc and actually work well on it.
motu's hardware works great with their software(wich is mac only). of your gonna use cubase get something different.
btw cubase for pc is unstable(as in its not a joke).
if you can afford nuendo get that instead, or get cakewalk or logic audio.
or get a mac and join the pro's
.dont just buy any pc if your gonna get one make sure itll work with what you want.
if you get a mac youll have no troubles as far as that is concerned.
Which MOTU has 24 ins?
MOTU 2408mkII has the ability if you have 2 ADAT's to use along with the 8 analog ins. It has three banks of 8 in/out...
Performs well with Cubase as well (that's what I've used it on). The MAC comments are pretty correct in that it is a solid foundation for DAW. However, check out Nuendo by Steinberg before you go buy a MAC. I am using it myself and it is rock solid! You can import projects between Pro Tools and Nuendo and so on. It is primarily for audio so if you are looking for extensive MIDI functions then Cubase or another MIDI app is needed.
Best of luck!
http://michaelerwin.com
MOTU 2408mkII has the ability if you have 2 ADAT's to use along with the 8 analog ins. It has three banks of 8 in/out...
Performs well with Cubase as well (that's what I've used it on). The MAC comments are pretty correct in that it is a solid foundation for DAW. However, check out Nuendo by Steinberg before you go buy a MAC. I am using it myself and it is rock solid! You can import projects between Pro Tools and Nuendo and so on. It is primarily for audio so if you are looking for extensive MIDI functions then Cubase or another MIDI app is needed.
Best of luck!
http://michaelerwin.com
Ha!
"It's the best Windows I've ever used...pretty damn solid and stable. I've gone 2 weeks and 3 days without rebooting -- twice."
i have a friend who says the same thing pretty dam funny lol! sorry ppl but for this game winblozz and the devil inside wont help here! =)
save your self a lot of crap and buy a MAC or go for the Tascam MX-2424 ,if you got the $ get a dual G4 with Emagic's Logic And that wonderfull Motu system its pretty dam sweet and you wont "lag" with midi or audio because the software was made to handle both (logic)
with the dual G4 one processor for each!
bill just wants your $› so he shoves that liltle tinker melody noise down your mouth in there commercials to sucker you in to buying there crash crazy machine
oops im out of line sorry!
"It's the best Windows I've ever used...pretty damn solid and stable. I've gone 2 weeks and 3 days without rebooting -- twice."
i have a friend who says the same thing pretty dam funny lol! sorry ppl but for this game winblozz and the devil inside wont help here! =)
save your self a lot of crap and buy a MAC or go for the Tascam MX-2424 ,if you got the $ get a dual G4 with Emagic's Logic And that wonderfull Motu system its pretty dam sweet and you wont "lag" with midi or audio because the software was made to handle both (logic)
with the dual G4 one processor for each!
bill just wants your $› so he shoves that liltle tinker melody noise down your mouth in there commercials to sucker you in to buying there crash crazy machine
oops im out of line sorry!
Hmmm...well it appears that MOTU only has 8 analog in/out, where the Hoontech also does and is much cheaper. Maybe I'll stick with a Hoontech or two. And as far as Mac vs PC goes...I'm a PC guy, been using PCs for 10 years (and I'm only 18) so I know the PC pretty well, which means there's no reason why I'd switch to Mac if I can do the same thing on a platform I am used to.
camn
Active member
My windows macine has worked with no problems for the last 8 months.. mostly because Im smarter than the machine. If you are, too, get a PC. They ae the most flexible recording solution.
If you're NOT, but still want a comuter, go ahead and get a Mac. But you might as well get an ADAT. Or a new toaster. Better upgrade path with new vcrs, too.
xoxo
If you're NOT, but still want a comuter, go ahead and get a Mac. But you might as well get an ADAT. Or a new toaster. Better upgrade path with new vcrs, too.
xoxo
robert jaybird
New member
well, if your gettin a pc stick to a p-3
cause some other cpus have had problems
that would include a thunderbird or a celeron.
this is in regard to audio apps.
i prefer macs.pcs have faster clock speeds
but with each click of the clock a mac does
almost twice as much.
plus, os 10-it makes windows 2000 look obsolete.
the fact is that cubase is buggy on pc. youll have problems.most audio apps are ported from mac.(logic.cubase,pro tools)-wich means those apps work better on it
making a pc work with audio has more to do with getting the stuff the app.supports.get the wrong cpu or os and your screwed
im smarter than a p.c., and so is my mac.
cause some other cpus have had problems
that would include a thunderbird or a celeron.
this is in regard to audio apps.
i prefer macs.pcs have faster clock speeds
but with each click of the clock a mac does
almost twice as much.
plus, os 10-it makes windows 2000 look obsolete.
the fact is that cubase is buggy on pc. youll have problems.most audio apps are ported from mac.(logic.cubase,pro tools)-wich means those apps work better on it
making a pc work with audio has more to do with getting the stuff the app.supports.get the wrong cpu or os and your screwed
im smarter than a p.c., and so is my mac.
im not a pc hater
im not a pc hater i have one an HP 1ghz 256 ram 30 gig HD but the fact remains the MAC is a better platform for DAW apps just look into it everybody from britney (yuk) to NIN from rock to jazz and blues to hip hop backwards and foward use a MAC ,think about it if you had all the money you needed to get anything you wanted no matter what the cost what would you get? Now think why it is that the PROS, ppl who make music for the masses who make all the money they would ever need choose MAC to do it with? common its not a matter of MAC VS PC anymore its getting the right tool for the job to make your work all it can be! PC works for many things its a good platform but MAC "Rocks" and thats what you need to make good recordings when it comes to DAW's, ppl that make your fav. music use a MAC most likely 95% do and thats a fact these ppl arent stupid thats why there on top because there smart and have the right tools for the job!.. i thought this was funny so here it goes enjoy! and dont shine your PC but Love Your MAC also
"The box label said, "Requires Windows 95 or Better.", so I bought a Macintosh.
Windows:
32 bit extension and graphical interface for a 16 bit patch to an
8 bit operating system initially coded for a
4 bit microprocessor written by a
2 bit company that cannot stand 1 bit of competition."
BUY A MAC!!
LOL!!
im not a pc hater i have one an HP 1ghz 256 ram 30 gig HD but the fact remains the MAC is a better platform for DAW apps just look into it everybody from britney (yuk) to NIN from rock to jazz and blues to hip hop backwards and foward use a MAC ,think about it if you had all the money you needed to get anything you wanted no matter what the cost what would you get? Now think why it is that the PROS, ppl who make music for the masses who make all the money they would ever need choose MAC to do it with? common its not a matter of MAC VS PC anymore its getting the right tool for the job to make your work all it can be! PC works for many things its a good platform but MAC "Rocks" and thats what you need to make good recordings when it comes to DAW's, ppl that make your fav. music use a MAC most likely 95% do and thats a fact these ppl arent stupid thats why there on top because there smart and have the right tools for the job!.. i thought this was funny so here it goes enjoy! and dont shine your PC but Love Your MAC also
"The box label said, "Requires Windows 95 or Better.", so I bought a Macintosh.
Windows:
32 bit extension and graphical interface for a 16 bit patch to an
8 bit operating system initially coded for a
4 bit microprocessor written by a
2 bit company that cannot stand 1 bit of competition."
BUY A MAC!!
LOL!!
camn
Active member
yeah, thats funny, mines a celeron. Never gives me any problems. And I can upgrade it if I want! And there's 2 or 3 OSs to choose from, not just one...like on a mac. and half a dozen hardware manufacturers, too! wow.
oh, and last I checked... the people that made my favorit music used TAPE.
xoxo
oh, and last I checked... the people that made my favorit music used TAPE.
xoxo
drstawl
Banned
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,40484-2,00.html
If MacOS X is so cool, how come it won the #1 vaporware award of the year from wired.com?
Just match up the job to the tool and you'll be fine. Don't think that paying more will necessarily get you more stability. My lowly, ancient PII-450 gets me more tracks than I've ever needed. And I'm using one HD, Win 98 and I've got more apps loaded (including the internet apps I'm using right now) than will fit on my desktop! Plenty of optimization available if I need it. But I don't. I'll just get a nice GHz machine with a fat, fast HD when I choose to upgrade. It's one thing to spit on Bill Gates and his ilk. Quite another to charge more for less performance.
Do the math and make up your own mind.
If MacOS X is so cool, how come it won the #1 vaporware award of the year from wired.com?
Just match up the job to the tool and you'll be fine. Don't think that paying more will necessarily get you more stability. My lowly, ancient PII-450 gets me more tracks than I've ever needed. And I'm using one HD, Win 98 and I've got more apps loaded (including the internet apps I'm using right now) than will fit on my desktop! Plenty of optimization available if I need it. But I don't. I'll just get a nice GHz machine with a fat, fast HD when I choose to upgrade. It's one thing to spit on Bill Gates and his ilk. Quite another to charge more for less performance.
Do the math and make up your own mind.
robert jaybird
New member
drstawl said:
robert jaybird
New member
camn said:yeah, thats funny, mines a celeron. Never gives me any problems. And I can upgrade it if I want! And there's 2 or 3 OSs to choose from, not just one...like on a mac. and half a dozen hardware manufacturers, too! wow.
oh, and last I checked... the people that made my favorit music used TAPE.
xoxo
it depends on the software and processor you use.
professional applications like pro tools, logic,nuendo, and cubase dont work on every pc configuration.
btw. im using an upgraded mac at this very moment.mac upgrades are great. http://www.xlr8yourmac.com
as for os choices-thats a bad thing.you have so many cause theyre all limited by microsofts cumbersome hole ridden programming.and be os,the only one deserving to be compared to a mac os was founded bt a former apple employee
pc's have lots of manufactures with lots of components.thats why theyre difficult for audio.
and finally-pro tools,logic, and cubase have all been coded for mac and ported to pc.theyve all got bugs in theyre pc versions that arent found on the mac.
pc's are better for accounting and video games.
macs are better for multi media.
theyll both do either
theyre just tools
mac is a tool that most professional studios use.this is because theyre time is money and bill gates's os is built on a crappy foundation(wich windows 2000 fixed)
but because of windows shoddy past all the top end stuff was coded for mac.
nuendo and cakewalk are both great on pc.
so is logic audio.
the people that make my favorite music are dead and recorded live to 2 tracks