Compressing Vocals While Recording?

R

Ryan Teasnob

Member
I'm trying to record my wife singing, but she has a very wide dynamic range - very soft and low to very loud in pretty fast swings. I know that compression is the right tool but don't know how I can compress her vocals while she's recording. I only know how to do it after recording, in Reaper.

I do have an RNC unit that I never use. Is there a way to use that somehow? Right now her mic goes into an M-Audio Fast Track. I just don't know how I could possibly insert the RNC into the input chain.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Ryan
 
there's a couple of ways; firstly do you need compression? have you thought about trying two mic's instead? one close up, one a bit further back? the close up mic set to pickup the very quiet parts and the further mic set up to pick up the louder parts. the close one will clip when she sings loud but seeing as you'e only using it for the quiet part you can edit the two together in your DAW. Or, one dynamic and one condenser; dynamic for loud, condenser for quiet.

if you would rather compress (and, tbh, it's what i normally do in these situations, but the two mic approach works really well on some singers, especially if the vocal tone changes at different volumes) then i'd suggest getting an external pre amp and set up the signal chain;

Mic ---> external pre -----> RNC -----> M-audio fast track (as a line in)

the ART tube pre is about £20 - £30 and is easily comparable to the one in the M-audio in terms of quality
 
You could try multiple passes on the vocal take. One or two with the input gain set for her voice being louder, a couple more takes with the input gain set for singing quiet close up right on the mic. She will be way too soft on the soft parts in some takes, and way too loud on the loud parts on other takes.

Then you would go through and comp the takes together, cutting out anything that was way too low volume wise, or conversely any parts that were clipping. Then run the comped take through a compressor plug-in (or two).

You could also try riding the fader during the takes, but this can be tricky to do well. Especially without an actual FADER.

As far as using the RNC, you would need a mic pre before the RNC, then feed the output of that into your Fast Track. Or you need an Audio Interface with an insert.
 
I understand there are other options and great techniques (that these guys are covering) but for me the absolute first thing to do is to implement good microphone technique. 90% of volume adjustment should be in the singers voice or in their position relative to the mic.

The second thing is volume automation; Manually drawing in changes in playback volume.

The two mics option isn't a bad one if there's no choice.

Personally I think of a compressor as a tool for altering texture, or possibly 'ironing out the creases' in volume, but never for any drastic volume control.
If they're used for that, it's usually quite apparent in the outcome, in a bad way.


I'm not sure about the IO on your fast track, but if it has two channels and a line output, you should be able to feed vocals out of your daw, into the comp and back into a second channel on the interface and new track in the daw.
Sure, this is an extra set of d/a a/d conversion, but it's not the end of the world.
 
maestro_dmc said:
You could try multiple passes on the vocal take. One or two with the input gain set for her voice being louder, a couple more takes with the input gain set for singing quiet close up right on the mic. She will be way too soft on the soft parts in some takes, and way too loud on the loud parts on other takes.
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Ah man, why wasn't this my first answer, i do this all the time! i fear my part of the "great minds thinking alike" may have let me down :eek:

yeah, proper mic technique is important but it does depend on how vast the difference in dynamics is and how well the room is treated. for example, if it goes from almost whispering to screamo then you'd have to move back from the mic a fair way and this would add some real room sound which may be a problem if the whole room isn't treated (i appreciate that this is a huge exaggeration, but you know what i mean :P)

the big problem i find, especially with singers who don't have much studio experience, is that if their mic technique isn't very good that there's only so much you can do to coach them without ruffling their feathers and making them feel uncomfortable. if the singer is uncomfortable but singing with perfect mic technique then the balance between loud and quiet may be really good, but the take won't sound as good as the singers performance is subpar.

As with the answers to most things in studio's, the best solution is often a combination of answers. get the singer to practice proper mic technique, if the difference in dynamics is just to large to really control with just good technique alone then try either recording the track in parts (loud part and quiet part) or try two mic's at once. if the mic technique is good but still some loud overly loud notes, then some subtle compression (low ratio, only -3db to -4db gain reduction at the absolute loudest parts, fast attack, fast release) on the way in will help balance it out
 
moresound said:
Proper microphone technique could harness the majority of your problems. ;)
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I was working under the notion that his problems came from the fact that his singer has zero mic technique. ;)

I agree of course that good mic technique trumps work-arounds any day. The OP didn't ask what he should have his singer do to fix the problem though. Still, I probably should have mentioned it anyway!:cool:

To the OP: Along those lines, if you have time and the inclination, you really should help her work on her technique by letting her sing and practice without the "pressure" of "recording". Learning how to work a mic properly is a highly valuable skill for a singer to have. Watch any live performance by Jewel (and countless others!) to see a good example of how it's done.
 
Steenamaroo said:
..Personally I think of a compressor as a tool for altering texture, or possibly 'ironing out the creases' in volume, but never for any drastic volume control.
If they're used for that, it's usually quite apparent in the outcome, in a bad way..
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Agreed.
As well a question. If you do the close + farther mic solution doesn't that mean time aligning them and/or some careful cross fading between them? (..possibly some fun with the ambience shifting.

I'd think my first tactics would be-
a) Set it for the loudest vocal. With that alone no one's going to exceed the dynamic range available to us.
b) Ask her to just tilt back a bit' in the hot sections (not even a lot).
c) After it's recorded mix the vocal. :cool:
I.e., this is where the recordist rides the levels as needed :D And yes or adds some compression as well.

If you have the means to get some compression into the recording interface and you have enough experience not to umm- make it worse, cool. Do that too, but..
".. never for drastic volume control.
If they're used for that, it's usually quite apparent in the outcome in a bad way."

..Lets make that "almost never". There's the case where the compression' is the sound effect and volume control.
 
Why not just edit the level in the DAW after you record?
I'm not talking about applying compression...I'm talking about cutting up the track into words/phrases/sections, and increasing/decreasing the levels as needed to get what you want.

That way, she can sing how it's most comfortable for her...you don't need to mess with multiple mics or compression up front...and you get exactly the levels you want for each word/phrase/section.
 
I'd like to add/ask as it wasn't said regarding mic placement. The type/model of mic, and style of music will affect a desirable placement.
Knowing that we could likely help in that way too.
If for example it's a hand held' ball mic, or very close working distances- the levels (and tone!) changes per distance changes get wilder, harder to deal with.
 
The only thing I would add to the above (all well thought-out answers, BTW) is to be aware of the surroundings. Any compression on the loud passages will include more room tone as a result of her louder voice projection. If you're trying to get a "cleaner" vocal sound in a home studio, make sure you've got either a good iso booth or a set of baffles surrounding the mic to soak up the wall reflections.

Riding gain during the recording works if you know where the loud passages are coming in. Run through the song with her, and get a sense of how she's going to hit the dynamics. If she ad-libs a great deal, and doesn't sing the same line the same way twice, the compression will be more necessary.
 
mixsit said:
Agreed.
As well a question. If you do the close + farther mic solution doesn't that mean time aligning them and/or some careful cross fading between them? (..possibly some fun with the ambience shifting.
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Negatory mixsit, but only because you'll never use both mics at the same time.
When a loud passage kicks in, switch to the far mic.
When it's a quiet passage, switch to the close one.

Miro, You're describing volume automation.
For me that's the second line of defence; The first being mic technique.


Allegro makes a good point. If you know the song well you could ride the gain on the way in. :)
 
Steenamaroo said:
.

Miro, You're describing volume automation.
For me that's the second line of defence; The first being mic technique.
Click to expand...

Based on how the OP described the problem of his wife singing all over the place with fast level swings...I just don't think she'll grasp strong mic techniques with any rapid success, so in that case, my own approach would be to put her in a single spot, stick a pop screen where I wanted her to sing from and tell her to just keep her nose on the screen.
That way, she can just sing whatever way is comfortable for her voice...and then I would simply take care of the loud/soft disparity in the DAW, which is done pretty easily/quickly and possibly with much less effort/time than it would take someone to learn proper mic technique...but of course, you are right, if they did have a good mic singing technique...then no need for a lot of post-editing to fix it. :)

The dual mic thing IMO is good if you again, have someone with good overall singing technique, and you just want them to concentrate on signing, but the song has distinct loud/soft sections...so the dual mic setup covers them....and then you still have to edit/comp from the two tracks. Also, as someone mentioned...with too much distance difference between a two-mic setup...they will sound different, even if the levels are made to be the same, especially if she has no idea how to work the mics.

With the OPs wife...it sounds like she has NO mic technique... :D ....which is understandable if she's new at it.

I guess I'm just wanting to cut to the chase...and get the vocal down with minimal hassle and least amount of frustration to the singer.

You know...not sure if anyone mentoined this...maybe she's not hearing herself well enough in the cans...which can mess up singers who are not use to recording with headphones....???
 
Forget the mic technique. Get a good compressor on this girl on the way in. Like they do in the pro studios....
 
ido1957 said:
Forget the mic technique. Get a good compressor on this girl on the way in. Like they do in the pro studios....
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Yeah...it is an option, but like you said, it has to be the right (and good) comp.
I've used an ADR limiter going in on some vocal tracks in the past...and then I could push on the louder sections, but when singing normal or softer, the limiter did nothing.

I'm wondering though if with her "all over the place" levels...if a comp will pump-n-chung too much trying to even them all out....?
I could see it working real well with a light setting, for a pretty stable vocal...but it sounds like she may need more help than that.
 
Getting the singer to learn good mic technique is all well and good, but remember, this is the OP's wife.
Telling your wife to learn something is not usually a good idea. :eek:

From all the good advice given so far, I'd be most likely to go with two takes.
One with the mic set to the correct level for the loud parts and one with it set to the correct level for the quiet parts.
Then just edit the two together and ditch the parts that are too quiet and the parts that are clipping... but I'm only a hobbyist really. :)
 
Psycho Clown said:
Getting the singer to learn good mic technique is all well and good, but remember, this is the OP's wife.
Telling your wife to learn something is not usually a good idea. :eek:
Click to expand...

although i do agree and this did make laugh as i've been there with previous girlfriends, it's more about gentle "coaching" rather than screaming "what are you doing ho! move yo' ass when you sing loud!" in the long run helping her to learn good mic technique will pay off ten fold and she'll thank him for it. a large part of being an engineer/producer is people skills. if the artist is uncomfortable then no matter how sweet your gear/setup/room, the recording will sound crappy as the musician isn't giving their best performance!

Also, people seem to be forgetting that the OP said he was going straight into his sound card pre's so if wanted to comp on the way in he'd need an external preamp or a comp with a pre built it (which would cost a lot more than a little external pre, and seeing as he already has an RNC buying another comp seems silly)

The multiple takes approach works great and for the setup he has it's work really well as it wouldn't require anymore gear and as it's the same mic in the same position is should sound pretty similar (just be careful of extra room sound in the loud take)
 
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