Choosing a first condenser.

S

Sandyman323

New member
Need a little help choosing a first condenser. I'll need one that can do pretty much everything... acoustic guitar mostly, but also a good bit of vocals and micing an electric guitar amp. i've got $150 in gift cards to guitar center, so i'm a bit limited in what i can get. i could possibly toss in an extra $50-$100 if i really needed to, but i will also have to buy a stand and cables and all that fun stuff, so i'd like to stay as close the the $150 as possible.

after a bit of research and asking around, i've got 5 mics i'm looking at right now. i just wanted a little input on them.

- MXL V88 - a little pricey for me, but if there's a big enough difference between it and the cheaper ones, i might go with it.

- Sterling Audio ST51

- Sterling Audio ST55 - both sterlings were suggested by the gut at guitar center, but he didn't convince me that he knew what he was talking about...

- Behringer B-2 Pro

- Audio-Technica AT2020

what's good? what's bad? what are some good ones i haven't mentioned?

I've also considered buying one of the cheaper ones, and getting a used 57 to mix in with the condenser. is that worth it?
 
yeah, i've read good reviews on all of those. i was unsure if the at2020 would work well for acoustic guitars and for amps. i seem to remember most reviews were for how it did with vocals.
 
sm57

its tried and true. i know its not a condenser but they are industry standard. especially for acoustic guitars and micing cabs. as far as vocals though they work well too if you know what your doing. check out sufjan stevens, he recorded all his vocals with a 57. if i were to get a condenser i would go with the at2020 given your allowance. hope that helps.
 
if you don't have one already i would also go with a sm57, even though its not a condenser, a cheap condenser is likely to get upgraded and then used very sparingly after that, a sm57 will be used in your studio forever.

As far as condensers go i own a ksm 27 (200$) and i am very happy with it
 
You might flame me for this...but If I had all the money I had spent on the cheapo junk before getting my current stuff...and bought the right stuff in the first place...Id have alot more of my money.

That said...go for a used C414 with the silver grill...you can get one for arround $400 if you look...there might be a few to choose from at the guitar center website...and have them deliver it to your store so you can try it out.

You cant go wrong with the SM57 idea either...with a $200 budget like yours...you can get a couple of used SM57s and maybe a Line6 UX2...which will give you by far the most bang for your buck.

When you are ready for a preamp look at the Line 6 toneport stuff...too few arround here know about it...but it has what everyone wants at a very affordable price.
 
OK, I got it. People are making recommendations on a $200 budget, but overlooking the fact that $150 of that is in GC gift certificates. That makes many of the standard $200 budget recommendations impractical. Guys, it has to be something GC carries! It also rules out used mics. Unfortunately, that rules out MXL V67, CAD M179, Studio Projects, and a host of other options. I prefer the MXL option to Sterling audio, which is the latest cheap mic line being pushed by GC. I think your best bets at GC would be AT2020 and AKG Perception 220. I have recently gotten to use a 220, and it really isn't bad at all. I personally prefer AKG C2000b, but within the last 2 years, folks have started to realize what a really good mic it is, and the price has been jacked up into the $280 range, from the $150 or so it used to be. Best of luck-Richie
 
I was referred to the Rode NT-1a. Don't know if that's an option for you. Got a stand and cradle bundle from gak.co.uk, but the cradle is faulty, not entirely amused.. :P
 
Many thanks to all who tossed in their 2 cents.

i know my GC budget is very limiting, and i know the value of saving for better equipment. any time i give suggestions to people who are looking to buy a new guitar, i always tell them to save up until they get something that will be truly good, and not just another cheap guitar to decorate their room with. however, if they do not have a guitar to start with, i always tell them to pick up a cheap (but decent) guitar just to get started. right now i'm just trying to get started so i dont mind getting a cheaper mic. i will save money and get better ones after this.

i just ordered a sm57, and it's looking like i'll go with the at2020, unless there are any last suggestions...

thanks for all the help.
 
Assuming you can use GC giftcards online, they have the CAD e100 and e300 on their online store for $250 and $300, respectively.
 
Sandyman323 said:
any time i give suggestions to people who are looking to buy a new guitar, i always tell them to save up until they get something that will be truly good, and not just another cheap guitar to decorate their room with. however, if they do not have a guitar to start with, i always tell them to pick up a cheap (but decent) guitar just to get started. right now i'm just trying to get started so i dont mind getting a cheaper mic. i will save money and get better ones after this. .
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It is easy to be wise in hindsight and to say things like: "but If I had all the money I had spent on the cheapo junk before getting my current stuff...and bought the right stuff in the first place...Id have alot more of my money."

There's economic wisdom in this. But there's a bit more to it than just plain economics. For example, how do you know that something is cheapo junko (apart from the price, which is not always an accurate guide)? Well, for a start, someone might tell you. But importantly, and more enduringly, you learn yourself through experience. If you are just starting, and on a budget, you get what you can afford and learn to use it the best way you can. As you become more experienced you start to hear the shortcomings in your initial purchase. That's the time to take a step up. I regard this 'wasted' money as an investment in training. Buying your first bit of recording gear is no different to buying your first car. Budget and beginner . . . you get something cheap and something that goes . . . it's pointless looking at a Ferrari which you would have difficulty handling, and couldn't afford anyway.

So I like your approach with guitars, and I think you are right in applying this philosophy to yourself.

Sandyman323 said:
i just ordered a sm57, and it's looking like i'll go with the at2020,
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Yep . . . nothing wrong with those. Both good, versatile and useful mikes that will see you through for a while.
 
Agreed. The CAD LDCs are the only low-end LDCs I'd feel comfortable recommending for vocals.

AT2020 would be fine for acoustic guitar, and is usable on some vocals, but it really isn't a particularly good vocal mic (too bright, not warm enough, with weak low frequency response in general).

SM57... is usable as a snare drum mic, for electric guitar cabs, and for recording some instruments (e.g. trumpet). It is primarily tailored for live use, though, and it is rare that I find myself using Shure dynamic mics for recording these days. IMHO, it is not very good for vocals (too muddy) and is terrible for acoustic (no high frequency response).
 
dgatwood said:
Agreed. The CAD LDCs are the only low-end LDCs I'd feel comfortable recommending for vocals.

AT2020 would be fine for acoustic guitar, and is usable on some vocals, but it really isn't a particularly good vocal mic (too bright, not warm enough, with weak low frequency response in general).

SM57... is usable as a snare drum mic, for electric guitar cabs, and for recording some instruments (e.g. trumpet). It is primarily tailored for live use, though, and it is rare that I find myself using Shure dynamic mics for recording these days. IMHO, it is not very good for vocals (too muddy) and is terrible for acoustic (no high frequency response).
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If you manage to hook up a pair of SM57's to a decent pre-amp, it CAN be used (not the best choice) to mic accoustic guitar, it just depends where you place each mic and how you EQ them. Since I'm a poor starving college student with nothing but a pair of 57's to my name, this is how i go about it.

I put one 57 in front of the hole of the guitar, about 6 to 10 inches away from the hole, and then I put another one over the 12th fret, 6 to 10 inches away. Again, not the best option, but you can get passable sounding accoustic guitar recordings this way. That being said, the 57 is probably one of the best choices to mic an amp/cab, and can be used very effectively to mic vocals. However, there might be better specialized mics for these tasks out there.

I also want to give a shout out to the line6 UX2 suggestion. VERY good "pre-amp" for the price (I put that in quotes because its designed to be more than just a pre-amp...). Plus you can couple it with gearbox which simulates other pre-amps, and you can get very good recorded guitar tones and vocals through it. I used to be an SM57 hater, but then I "upgraded" to one of these from my old Tascam US-224, and the difference was night and day. It made the mic come alive.
 
FadeToMuffins said:
I put one 57 in front of the hole of the guitar, about 6 to 10 inches away from the hole....
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You can maybe pull that off with a 57, I've ever only used condensors on acoustic guitars, and getting too close to the soundhole gets boomy and plosivey. You can get off center, like bridge/neck pointed ~45º towards the soundhole and lose a ton of lows if you need to.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
You might flame me for this...but If I had all the money I had spent on the cheapo junk before getting my current stuff...and bought the right stuff in the first place...Id have alot more of my money.

That said...go for a used C414 with the silver grill...you can get one for arround $400 if you look...there might be a few to choose from at the guitar center website...and have them deliver it to your store so you can try it out.

You cant go wrong with the SM57 idea either...with a $200 budget like yours...you can get a couple of used SM57s and maybe a Line6 UX2...which will give you by far the most bang for your buck.

When you are ready for a preamp look at the Line 6 toneport stuff...too few arround here know about it...but it has what everyone wants at a very affordable price.
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disagree about the 414. not that they aren't great mics, but for a first condensor they're confusing. there are several different models, current and old, and they all sound very different, and they're all called 414. too confusing for a first purchase I think. also honestly not "better" than some other similarly priced mics brand new, although definitely cooler haha :-)

just not a great first purchase I think. too many very different results one could get by buying the "wrong" 414.

as always, cad m179 is my recommendation. great, fairly cheap, very versatile, and showcases some of the best qualities of condensors without the bad qualities of some chinese type condensors. a mic you can keep forever and always useful.

cheers
Don
 
The549 said:
The Behringer B-2 sounded good doing vocals by both my ears and a professional that I lent it to.
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yea, I've used one, I can't believe it's such a good mic for like $50 or whatever. much better than say the apex 435 or anything else in that price range that's a brand new store bought LDC.

but for the poster's question I'd say you can do better than the behringer with a cad m179. why? well, it's a better mic, better sounding, better built, better looking, better name (better resale value should that come up in the future). and it's a great learning mic for condensor use with it's variable polar patterns and accompanying subtle changes in frequency response.

really, the cad m179 is a textbook LDC with the benefits that come with that design although it doesn't have the presence peak that some LDCs have, which while that means it isn't the obvious vocal mic choice (although you can eq it in and it's indistinguishable from better vocal mics if you're a good engineer...), it does make it a much more versatile mic than your typical LDC. on acoustic instruments, guitar, on cabs, on piano, on vocals, on drums (close, overheads or room), on kick even (with some eq), this mic can handle anything. it's very versatile. versatile like a 414 is versatile, but much cheaper and slightly flatter which just makes it even more versatile. and better pattern control (I mean UI wise, the CV knob is a great design, the pattern itself is moderately tight but no more so than the akg 414 just to be clear about my meaning of "pattern control").

cheers
Don
 
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