cellardweller
New member
walters comes out at night...mostly...
Cheap chinese microphones vindicated
- Thread starter lexdrummer
- Start date
ROblows
New member
Sonic Idiot said:
Nobody objects when someone says "Hey, I've got a modest little recording rig and am very pleased with the sounds I'm getting out of my Behringer stuff."
People object when someone says "I've got a bunch of Behringer stuff that sounds way better than anything the Beatles or Led Zepplin ever used and, because I have it, I'm a professional engineer."
See the difference?
lexdrummer
mix mono
Don't bring your loss of topic focus here dude. You are exagerating subjects to your own liking. Let's try the hard part, staying focused. Nobody made that claim. And if they did, perhaps they are an excellent recordist.ROblows said:
Sonic Idiot
New member
ROblows said:
I don't recall anyone saying that on this message board. At least I know I didn't. You might try absorbing and ruminiating on the thoughts of others before responding thoughtfully rather than simply over reacting and spewing empty, defensive hog wash. See the difference?
Sonic Idiot said:
Sounds good to me. If it wasn't for affordable gear, many people would not be here, and that would be a shame, as one's mic box or skill level has no bearing on their value as a person.
And no matter what is in your mic box, there is always technique, technical knowledge, and just finding out what others do to keep you growing and interested and making better recordings.
lexdrummer
mix mono
Boigoman, let's make up. I apologise for my rudeness to you in earlier post. Sincerely.boingoman said:
lexdrummer said:
That's called "proximity effect" Lex. And almost every microphone does it. Unfortunately, the Behringers also sound harsh and edgy in the highs, but that's a whole nother subject altogether.
You should read up on some of this stuff ... educate yourself a bit. Start with Harvey's big sticky thread at the top. There's a lot you can learn.
lexdrummer
mix mono
you make me fucking laugh so fucking hard with your insight that I really do have to pee! Of course it is proximity effect. This is exploiting the microphone. I have been exploiting the microphone since 1976. Lets stop with the stabs please. I'm not better than you and I don't presume to be. I just will not be smitten by YOUR lack of understanding and off the nose bullshit.chessrock said:
PhilGood
Juice box hero
lexdrummer said:
I don't think Chessrock was taking stabs at you. I've been reading this BBS for a long time. I don't post too often, but I've had encounters with Chess and his sense of humor. Chessrock has a certain wit all his own and he's often quite funny. Its just that some of his humor doesn't translate well in type. He's really knowledgeable, though. He just takes some getting used to.
He's right about reading the big thread at the top of the listings. I thought I knew quite a bit about mics, too. After reading that it put things into a great perspective.
Chess scares me! (no really)
Anyway, I listened to your clip "Sunshine Lady". Sounds pretty good to me, although I'm not exactly listening on monitors. Impressive considering there wasn't a vocal mic (if I'm correct). Whether or not it would be better with better mics, I don't know. I'm not well informed enough to get into this argument
Anyway, I listened to your clip "Sunshine Lady". Sounds pretty good to me, although I'm not exactly listening on monitors. Impressive considering there wasn't a vocal mic (if I'm correct). Whether or not it would be better with better mics, I don't know. I'm not well informed enough to get into this argument
noisedude
New member
In these post-DJL days of very much lower levels of flame wars, it's nice for Cressy to step up to the plate whilst another newcomer self-destructs and blames everyone else. I'm just impressed you managed to be a member for like three years before realising that Behringer mics were as good as anything from the 50s.
lexdrummer said:
Somehow, that doesn't surprize me. Lex, I am going to do you a favor and help you to dispel a few myths:
1) Uli Behringer is not a thoughtful or innovative audio person. He's a business man who has learned how to capitalize on a particular market by using unsavory business practices; i.e. bypassing the need for investment in R&D expenses by blantantly copying and reverse-engineering existing designs.
Furthermore, he offers little to no customer service for his product, and incomprehensibly poor Quality Control to begin with.
2) The B-1 is an off-the-shelf Chinese mic that Behringer simply puts their logo on and markets as their own. It's a pretty common practice, by the way.
Not to mention the fact that the B-1 sounds like ass. There's nothing at all warm or tube-like about it's design or sound. In fact, it tends to sound cold and harsh. And it's based on the same basic design as every other ripoff Chinese mic out there ... and in fact, goes by several different names / model numbers and is distributed by several different manufacturers.
3) There is no such thing as a "wobbling of the frequencies." Some of your statements make no sense, and sound fabricated.
4) There is no benefit to "dithering back in noise." Nor is there any benefit, generally, to "muddying up" the sound of anything. Unless you like things that sound muddy. Creative use of distortion can sometimes add an interesting texture to certain things, but it has nothing to do with "digital bits." If you want to creatively distort something; i.e. a vocal effect, snare drum track, etc. you will still want the most accurate digital representation of that effect (and the track it is affecting) as possible.
noisedude
New member
I love it when you talk dirty, Cressy.
What I like about the way you record is that you're brave enough to remove all the safety blankets that REs are used to. Clean signal path - accurate mics and transparent pres. KISS - Keep it simple, Lexdrummer. The problem I have is that even with my relatively budget gear, I have way too much transparency and not enough tape hiss and added mud to hide the fact that my rooms are untreated and my instruments are quite cheap. I've used my T3 through my Soundcraft desk in a nice room on a quality vocalist, and know the difference.
Keep on doing what you do - I may never share your recording ethos precisely, but I admire your bravery and self-confidence to set about it in that way.
What I like about the way you record is that you're brave enough to remove all the safety blankets that REs are used to. Clean signal path - accurate mics and transparent pres. KISS - Keep it simple, Lexdrummer.
The problem I have is that even with my relatively budget gear, I have way too much transparency and not enough tape hiss and added mud to hide the fact that my rooms are untreated and my instruments are quite cheap. I've used my T3 through my Soundcraft desk in a nice room on a quality vocalist, and know the difference.Keep on doing what you do - I may never share your recording ethos precisely, but I admire your bravery and self-confidence to set about it in that way.
Supercreep
Lizard People
Lex - don't worry about it.
Your point about chinese microphones is well taken and well understood here. I, like you, am getting usable sounds out of cheap mics. I love my SP B1s for OH mics. I don't believe for a minute that the sounds couldn't be better and more easily obtainable if I had some MG 930s (and some great instruments, and some talent).
A thumbs up for cheap condensers from me and many others...
But the gulf between the cheap and the good is as wide as it always was.
-Casey
Your point about chinese microphones is well taken and well understood here. I, like you, am getting usable sounds out of cheap mics. I love my SP B1s for OH mics. I don't believe for a minute that the sounds couldn't be better and more easily obtainable if I had some MG 930s (and some great instruments, and some talent).
A thumbs up for cheap condensers from me and many others...
But the gulf between the cheap and the good is as wide as it always was.
-Casey
lexdrummer
mix mono
is that smoke coming from your ears there? I sense a little stress, perhaps predjudice, but stressful nonetheless. God forbid you are confronted with a term that envolves experience discript of ear sense other than book smartipants technical term. I have those too. (You probably think I just took a stab at you never having recorded before or some such exagerated literalisim.)chessrock said:
I don't care who made the B1. Somebody did. It sounds ok.
There is benefit to everything done creatively. There is benefit to dithering. We are artists. Stop being a scientist and record with a cheap chinese microphone to the best of your abilities like the thread says. Otherwise you are just bitching.
PhilGood
Juice box hero
Ok, NOW chess is taking stabs!
BTW, I was able to listen to this track at a suitable volume this afternoon and while I see how this supports your stance that you can get somewhat good results with cheap chinese mics, in reality I hear some major issues.
1st: the low end on the guitar is muddy and sometimes distorted. I wouldn't call it warm, though. I think of warm when I can hear the wood of the guitar. The high end is nice, though. I little harsh when the high strings are strummed hard.
2nd: the vocals are a little thin, but that works for acoustic stuff. This mic isn't really intended for vocals but sounds pretty good here. I hear some noise, but it might be my system.
3rd. All this being said i can only imagine what the track MIGHT have sounded like with, say a couple MXL v67s or SP C1s. It might have been even more impressive then, and you'd have more weight behind your statement.
I own alot of chinese mics and it was fine at first. I started modifying each one until NONE are stock mics. They sound much better and I'm glad I did it. The only backdraw is now I've got a taste for what more expensive, better manufactured mics could bring to my sound. Needless to say my days of cheap mics are over.
BTW, I was able to listen to this track at a suitable volume this afternoon and while I see how this supports your stance that you can get somewhat good results with cheap chinese mics, in reality I hear some major issues.
1st: the low end on the guitar is muddy and sometimes distorted. I wouldn't call it warm, though. I think of warm when I can hear the wood of the guitar. The high end is nice, though. I little harsh when the high strings are strummed hard.
2nd: the vocals are a little thin, but that works for acoustic stuff. This mic isn't really intended for vocals but sounds pretty good here. I hear some noise, but it might be my system.
3rd. All this being said i can only imagine what the track MIGHT have sounded like with, say a couple MXL v67s or SP C1s. It might have been even more impressive then, and you'd have more weight behind your statement.
I own alot of chinese mics and it was fine at first. I started modifying each one until NONE are stock mics. They sound much better and I'm glad I did it. The only backdraw is now I've got a taste for what more expensive, better manufactured mics could bring to my sound. Needless to say my days of cheap mics are over.
sdelsolray
Active member
PhilGood said:
I didn't want to be the first to say anything about the OP's recording. And Dot, you're too kind. The recording sucks. If that's all that mic can do, scratch it off the list. The mic placement seems like an advertisement for "let's find the worst mic placment we can for an acoustic guitar".
I suspect the mic can actually do much better (could it do any worse than in the sample?), in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing.
