Bit of a dilema

billabob

New member
Hey, im still pretty new to recording and have been using a md421 mic to mic an amp then to an m audio box strait into my pc to reaper. However i recently have got my hands on a imac and was thinking of upgrading my mbox to a mackie onxy 1620i so i can have more inputs and firewire capability.

My question is should i get this package Which includes pro tools:

http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/mackie-onyx-1620i-and-avid-m-powered-pro-tools--74873

Or just buy the mackie 1620i and keep using reaper?

Also ive been looking into getting a decent mic pre amp,all the ones ive looked at where stupidly expensive. anyone got any ideas of a decent one that doesn't cost £3k?

xxx
 
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hey man..

that seems like a helluva lot of money for someone who's not too sure.

have you any reason to want to jump to protools? if you don't i'd say bin it. (i'm a PT user)


also,,,not sayin anything bad about the onyx,,,but do you need mixer capabilites?

unless you've got a really fancy desirable console, mixing's usually done in the computer, so, my two cents is, save a fortune and get an 8 channel firewire interface.. (presonus fp10)
or spend the same money, but get a really nice one....



i don't know your skill or knowledge level, but i guess you don't need a 'dececnt mic pre'.

unless you actually want a seperate one for a different colour or something, there are 8 in the onyx that would have done just fine,

and the same goes for many other 8 channel interfaces like fp10/octopre etc


hope thats a gd start for ya :)
 
no i havent got any reason to switch other than a few mates telling me pro tools is the way to go.

i suppose i could get an interface, i just thought the sound s quality would be better through a proper mixer would it not?

Also its the same mates telling me that ill need to get a better mic pre amp to get a more professional sounding recordings.

In total i wanna start getting a more pro sounding recording and i need more inputs and i thought the mixer and daw would help?

xx
 
The mic pres on the Mackie won't be any better than the pres on an interface like the Firepod or Firestudio. Personally I would get an interface and some room treatment/monitors.

And if you're happy with Reaper...why switch? Stick with what you know. :D
 
i suppose it completely depends on what mixer you're comparing to what interface, but in most cases there's no real reason to have a mixer over an interface.

the sounds quality wont be better purely because it's a mixer.

maybe someone can give a first hand opinion on rme gear?
all i hear is good things, so it seems like your money would be better spent on the better preamps and conversion that you'd likely get from something like that.


don't get me wrong, someone might weigh in with 1st hand experience and say that the onyx rocks ass, but imo there's not a lot of need for mixer control because everything other than gain can be adjusted in the computer (eq, effects, volume etc)

if you're dead set on protools, you could pick up a 002 or 003 rack for cheap enough, which would give you 4 mic preamps and four line ins, but it has the ability to support a separate 8 channel adat preamp later, or a stereo spdif unit (when you can afford/want something really really nice)
but again....stick with what you know is probably better advice!

if you really are at the starting blocks, take a look at the "let me see you studio" thread and get some ideas of what regular forum goers are using :)
 
Reaper is as good as protools in the hands of a home recorder - probably better given that it's more in tune with your needs added to that you know it. Don't give into peer pressure - they'll have you smoking & drinking next!
 
no i havent got any reason to switch other than a few mates telling me pro tools is the way to go.

You need to sit down and evaluate, properly the quality of the information coming to you. These mates of yours... are they professional recording engineers; are they amateur experts; or are they simply musicians who do a bit of recording?

From what I can see, people like the idea of Pro Tools because they think it will make them feel more professional. I believe there are solid reasons for industry professionals to choose Pro Tools but there are as many pretentious reasons for 'needing' it also.

Many amateur & semi-pro enthusiasts use it but that is because they happen to like it - and there's nothing wrong with that.... but an amateur saying they and everyone else needs Pro Tools appears, to me, one of the signs of an amateur.

For some reason, sound engineering seems to be one of these industries, which attracts kids with something to prove. Not all, but I've seen & heard it for myself, with enough frequency to feel like saying it.

You're not the first and probably won't be the last person to come in here parroting the phrase: "Pro Tools is the way to go". Ask your friends, precisely what "way to go" means. Get them to explain must have features, track routing flexibility and workflow. Ask them what specifically makes Pro Tools the "way to go" and ask them why they can't do without it.... because it's not free - it's a heck of a lot of money - and you want to be absolutely sure you really need something that badly before parting with your cash.

I'm also an amateur but from my experience in other areas, I believe the time to worry about changing your tools, is when you advance to a point, where they cease being useful to you.

Dr. V
 
You need to sit down and evaluate, properly the quality of the information coming to you. These mates of yours... are they professional recording engineers; are they amateur experts; or are they simply musicians who do a bit of recording?
Medicine man speak wise words. Evaluate carefully {:D}, but heed nonetheless.
Many amateur & semi-pro enthusiasts use it but that is because they happen to like it -
An important point to bear - you will come across people that have undying love and admiration for and total contempt for just about any product you care to name. There are fashions, buzzwords and flavours of the month depending on which wind is blowing but there is no universal glory or suck product. They all work and you can do good stuff.
You're not the first and probably won't be the last person to come in here parroting the phrase: "Pro Tools is the way to go".
If you look through the last month alone, I think you'll find that.
and you want to be absolutely sure you really need something that badly before parting with your cash.

I'm also an amateur but from my experience in other areas, I believe the time to worry about changing your tools, is when you advance to a point, where they cease being useful to you.

Actually, there is a place for gambling on gear but that is definitely the exception rather than the........{I can't say the 'R' word !}.
 
OK, well from reading this thread im deffinatly gonna stick to reaper cause tbh iv'e been getting on alright with it and the people telling to get pro tools aren't exactly pro. also pretty much everyone on this thread has told me to get an audio interface rather than a mix, so following this advice id like some reccomendations on some if thats alright? i want to get a good quality one, im willing to spend up to about £800 (about $1400 i think), I want it to have at least 8 xlr inputs and phantom power and firewire capable. these are my main preferences.

Cheers for the help soo far.
xxx
 
have a squint around for gear reviews and for threads where people have asked before.

your question is most likely covered in detail around here somewhere :)

good luck.
 
I'm not at all sure you will need to spend quite that much on the interface, though what I'd ask now is if you intend to play together as a band and multi-track live or whether you will track each instrument at a time.

If it's the former, then it could be quite an interesting (and expensive) arrangement, in terms of mic placement, physical space and cabling. Then there are all the acoustic concerns of that space to address.

If the latter, then I believe one input buss (either one stereo socket IN or two sockets into one stereo) is all you'll be able to manage effectively.

In other words, if you're tracking only one instrument at a time, then your recording space can occupy a smaller area, which is easier to treat acoustically.

Even with the most simple set ups, there are the other spends to consider - such as mics, cables and some worthy monitoring (either amp+speakers or active studio monitors).

The reason you might consider throwing a simple mixer into the chain, is so you can pre-mix one or two sources before recording and if it's a suitably powered mixer, it could drive your speakers without an amp, making it possible to dry-practice quite independantly from the computer, if needs be.

If you're adding effects into you mix after you've recorded dry (recommended) it will mean you'll be able to monitor what's going to the computer, before the signal even reaches it (useful for headphone mixes and guide effects whilst recording dry).

It also would mean you could leave all (or most) of your instruments and mics plugged in, ready for use, by activating a slider. Or you could record two mics into one track for a stereo effect or a guitar and mic together (if you felt the need).

Personally, beyond whatever inputs I have into the computer, I find my small desk mixer very convenient. It wasn't particularly expensive and neither was the soundcard but with your budget, you might get the best of both worlds.

Now supposing you took that idea further and instead of getting an analogue mixer, you got a digital one, with USB or Firewire MIDI support, you could use the knobs and sliders to control stuff in your DAW... in other words, a control surface and mixer in one.

There are many options. I don't want to confuse you and I'm not saying you definitely should get a mixer but thought you ought to be aware of the possibilities, before splashing out.

Dr. V
 
Well firstly i would like to record each instrument sepperatly, i think it just makes the recording process a little easier. I would also like to leave all my mics plugged into the mixer/interface to save hassle.

However im not to interested about being able to control my daw with my mixer if i can get a interface that does the same thing for £500 less with no lack in quality. But if ive read your post right you cant leave all the mics plugged into a interface?

Im getting a little confused but are you suggesting a digital mixer instead on an interface?

xx
 
While I don't claim Onyx reamps 'rock ass' they have edged nearly anything I've ever heard from Presonus (edged not won by 13 lengths)

In terms of bang for buck you probably can't go wrong with RME gear, top of the stack for entry level converters, pre amps are certainly on par with the pack. Project studio (mine) at the moment is based around MOTU hardware, with majority of basic tracking done via Alesis 24HD. Overdubs, solo's, etc. when only in need of a single track or two generally rely on the MOTU gear. While the actual device rotates, shuffles from one to another I generally have some type of mixer in play . . . not for signal to go through mixer to A/D cards but for all the miscellaneous tasks that a mixer can make easier. And there are times I'll use a fader board control surface for mixing. (not something the onyx can do)

'i' series Onyx will include 'interface', only you can decide whether you need the out of the box (i.e. computer) analog options of a mixer. If you are working with other people flexibility of fold back and monitoring (with a current onyx you might be able to configure both a control room mix and a cue mix via two headphone jacks, I don't remember.) Exploring whether foldback/control room options are sufficient is one of the hardest options to determine via specs alone (checking out SOS, on line, reviews might help). It is easy to spend big$ on an audio card just to find that a headphone distribution and/or mixer are necessary as well. And there are people who are quite happy to not have either.

If you are going to be working with more then one person it is hard not to stress importance, flexibility in cue/monitor options . And no matter how fast the computer or drive it is unlikely that latency, when monitoring through computer will be acceptable. Particularly if you are tracking other peoples vocals.

As you appear to have decided to continue using Reaper there is little purpose in jumping on the band wagon. I don't, never have, particularly like PT . . . I use it only when necessary to interface with client projects. If I had the money $10K+ (and real estate for a separate PT installation) I might well 'do' PTHD, if only because I get so tired of the debate and attitude of PT clients (who quite honestly can't tell whether I'm PT or not if we're doing the distance thing) . . . but my guess is that Reaper is powerful enough, flexible, there's that word again, enough to grow with for a long time.

If you have the money a boutique pre amp, to supplement anything on mixer or converter can be useful. In UK the DAV BG-1, Audient Mico (for two channels and some quirky options) are reasonable bang for buck options. True Systems P-Solo, about $500 for a single channel remains one of my favorite entry level pres (comes with a couple of different variations. Based on cost benefit I am OK with the Black Lion Auteur. While I'm not familiar with all the variations of the ART MPA: gold, ii, etc; series for less money then Mico, DAV, True Systems (while subjectively I don't think they are as good) is, somewhat surprisingly, better then I expected it to be. The one I have, picked up second hand, had some low impact mod's, primarily if I remember correctly replacing the stock tube . . . but that is fairly easy to do.

If you are handy with a soldering iron (or know someone you can blackmail who is) the Seventh Circle Audio (SCA) pre's can be cost effective. They come in the lunch box format and by the time you pay to have someone else assemble them they cost about the same as other lunch box options . . . and typically warranty on the labor is problematic . . . but they are good enough that in terms of acquiring pres that mimic famous (neeve, api) topology with lower cost, they are worth mentioning

No single mic is ever going to be 'right' for every vocal variation, having different mic pres that impart different character to different elements of a recording can be greatly beneficial. Generally speaking I don't have a problem running drum tracks, for example, through Onyx pres. I use them alot when tracking rock band live shows (almost never for traditional chamber music). Occasionally they will be used for pop/rock vocals. But even if you are primarily recording yourself having flexibility with 'colors' of preamps can be useful. If you are doubling an acoustic guitar part (same guitar, same performer) having different pres provide slightly different character can be as useful as EQ and hard panning in terms of finding a place in the mix. (not instead of sound field location or EQ, merely another tool and with appropriate fold back options the slightly different sound can invoke a different, slightly, performance as well. Enhancing variety of arrangement)

As you have gathered from the posts there are a lot of different ways to configure a project studio. Not ever bit of gear needs to be bought all at once. But if you are planning on working with others, either review monitoring options closely or plan on budgeting for a headphone distribution amp (cheap but sometimes an extra $100 breaks the bank)

good luck
 
Well, a mixer is like an 'interface for an interface' if you think about it... It expands the input capabilities of a computer's simple IO, in more ways than the x4 XLR input interface but everything you put into the mixer is summed into one output - to your soundcard's input. The mixer is then (usually) able to send the output from your card to several other units - which I find really handy.

Since you only want to track one instrument at a time, it won't make much difference in that respect, except, I do find having a mixer very versatile and convenient - in many other ways.

I think some digital mixers, as well as offering MIDI control, also double up as an interface - but that wasn't quite what I was referring to.

You just have to have a nose around and see what's available. Obviously, don't expect too many features for your money or you could end up compromising build quality. The point is, in my set up, the mixer and soundcard are seperate, which means each are simple, yet solid pieces of kit - but if you hunt around, you might find a mixer-come-MIDI surface and a simple, 2-way pro-quality sound card/external IO (with a MIDI socket) for your money.

Dr. V
 
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an firepod (fp10) user here, no complaints, especially at its low cost. yes mackie preamps are a bit better (as stated about that they edged presonus's) but you pay a fair bit more for em as well.

i also have various inexpensive tube preamps which i have constantly hooked up to channels 1-2
 
ok so ive had a quick nose about at a few interfaces and they dont actually seem to be that much cheaper. i mean once i add on all the extra that people have suggested such as tube pre amps and wat not it comes to pretty much exactly the same as if i were to get a digital mixer?

So perhaps if i get something like this?

http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/Mackie-CFX16-Mk-II-Compact-Mixer/249

It will give me the best of everything at a lower price? I know it says its for live performances but am i wrong in thinking it will record aswell or is it strickly for live?

xx
 
So perhaps if i get something like this?

http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/Mackie-CFX16-Mk-II-Compact-Mixer/249

It will give me the best of everything at a lower price? I know it says its for live performances but am i wrong in thinking it will record aswell or is it strickly for live?

xx



said mixer has no usb or firewire outs so it is not optimal for recording. you would have to run rca outs to your sound card or an external sound card therefore recording only to one channel.
 
you could use the inserts or bus outs or whatever with an interface that has line inputs, but bassically. yeah, that mixer's aimed at live use.

if you buy that, you're back to square one looking for an interface either way.


unless you use that mixer with your built in sound card but then your limited to a stereo mix down or two track recording, and it'll be shit.
 
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