Bad nut slots on Fender

RideTheCrash

RideTheCrash

Member
Hey guys. My wife recently acquired the guitar I learned how to play on (my buddy was selling it off I guess) for super cheap. I think the last time I saw it was 4-5 years ago, but it was in worse shape. Pretty beat up as usual, but the intonation and action were worse than a $2 Wal Mart guitar. I took it into my local shop and had it cleaned out, and set up properly. Picked it up yesterday and it plays really nice now. However I noticed my G and E (high strings) seemed a little off. I picked it up again today and they sound like dead strings...this is sort of weird, but if I take a fingernail and press the string down a bit in the nut slot while playing the string, it sounds like it comes back to life and doesn't sound dead. I can try to post a sample later if I find time...

The tech who did the guitar had told me it should be fine, except maybe for some fret buzz due to really worn frets. I haven't found this to be a problem, just these dead sounding strings. I know she filed down some of the nut because it was high and I know I'm not going crazy because the same tech did my acoustic guitar last summer and I had this same problem with the G string, so I'm pretty confident they aren't just bad strings. I might take it elsewhere to get the nut checked out, but could it be that they just a crappy job filing it, and now the nut is choking the string?
 
Okay, I threw this together quick.

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=12343

It starts with the high E string -- 4 dead notes, and then with my fingernail pushing the string in the nut roughly 4 times and then back to the dead open string. It then goes to the G string. I didn't do any processing except normalizing the volume louder. Maybe I'm just making the string go sharp when I push it a bit in the nut, but it sounds like it should...but you guys have better ears, check it out, thanks.
 
I can't really help much, but be advised that the condition of the nut is only relevant when you're playing an open string. If you're fretting, it doesn't come into play at all since the fret you're playing becomes the new 'nut'.

Your original message made it sound like you were having problems with fretted notes (since you mentioned possible bad frets).

I'm sure I'm just teaching you to suck eggs right now but thought I should mention anyway :) I can't listen to your audio clip now unfortunately. Damned work :rolleyes:

If it is just the open strings that are the problem, it must surely be either the nut or the tuning peg (could be loose?).
 
sounds like that's what it is. Always hard to be sure without seeing it but the difference in the clip is clear and when it's dead, it does sound like the string isn't making a clean break at the edge of the nut.
 
RideTheCrash said:
Yes, it's only on open strings, so my guess is the nut.
Click to expand...

If it is only on open strings it is almost certainly the nut slot. Take it back and have them sort it. It's basic stuff for a decent tech and they should get that right. If they can't don't take anything else there.
 
muttley600 said:
If it is only on open strings it is almost certainly the nut slot. Take it back and have them sort it. It's basic stuff for a decent tech and they should get that right. If they can't don't take anything else there.
Click to expand...

Quick question for you-- What would you do in a situation where the nut had been filed too much? Could you repair it without replacing it?
 
Well, after her not being able to notice this problem with my acoustic last year, I'm going to head out now to another shop and see if they can take a look at the nut. I think the nut slightly narrows at the bottom where the string makes first contact from the bridge.
 
P-J said:
Quick question for you-- What would you do in a situation where the nut had been filed too much? Could you repair it without replacing it?
Click to expand...
There are a couple of options Neither are ideal or should be considered permanent.

The first is to shim under the nut and re-cut any slots that are high.

The second is to fill the slot with a mix of bone dust and superglue and file a new slot. On a plastic nut you can fill the slot with thin paper folded over and old string glued one on the other with superglue and re-cut.
 
Okay, so the other tech said it was definitely the nut and I should take it back to the original tech, so I did. She took a look at it, and fiddled with the nut and now it sounds the way it should. The G string however she could only get slightly better...it still sounds dead-ish, but it doesn't drive me crazy like the high E string. She switched the gauge (i use D'Dadarrio Super Lights) and told me G strings are always tricker on Fender's because of the headstock design (which I have heard a lot) so she tried to compensate by getting the string lower on the peg but yeah...I guess some Fender's have two trees, which helps, but I just have the one tree.

Are there any other ways to remedy the G string?
 
RideTheCrash said:
Are there any other ways to remedy the G string?
Click to expand...

If the nut is cut correctly you wont have a problem, regardless of headstock or string trees. If you need a string tree to hold down the string and there isn't one there you may need one. I very much doubt it.
 
Yeah, I might look into someone installing a second string tree at some point, because the G string seems pretty hopeless. I was messing with it after work tonight and noticed my Strat knockoff has two string trees. Go figure.
 
muttley600 said:
The first is to shim under the nut and re-cut any slots that are high.
Click to expand...



A shim will work forever, and the wood used (at least, in my shop) is the same as the neck, so where's the problem? It's not as attractive, but it will work.


Filling the slot is only good for getting you through a gig or two. It is shit for anything more than that. The fill material never has enough durability to be worth anything.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light said:
A shim will work forever, and the wood used (at least, in my shop) is the same as the neck, so where's the problem? It's not as attractive, but it will work.


Filling the slot is only good for getting you through a gig or two. It is shit for anything more than that. The fill material never has enough durability to be worth anything.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Click to expand...

I don't like shims for the simple reason that by the time you've cut it and fitted it. recut all the slots, reshaped the crown and polished everything off you might as well have fitted a new nut. It's just always seemed a bit of a cheap dodge to me. Nothing wrong with it but I 'd still call it a dodge.:)

The superglue and dust thing is OK for a short fix yes, how long depends on string gauge, tension and what string. I've had quite a bit of success using layered up paper. I did it as a pre gig fix on one I play about a year ago and it's still going.:eek: I can't afford my rates to replace it.:D
 
What you are describing sounds a lot like the slot may be filed wrong. Not only does the width and depth need to be right for the string guage, it also needs to be cut as a very slight angle so the string will break over it propperly. If the bottom is too flat (in the bottom of the slot) the string will rub and either buzz or sound dull (dead.) If the G string sounds OK when fretted but sounds dull open, it's a good bet that something is off with the nut slot.
 
I think the tech filed it a little again when she switched the gauge of the G string, but I can't think of many techs around here. There used to be a shop that did only repairs and setups, etc. however now they operate out my local music shop. Surely there are just guitars out there that suffer from this problem regardless? Hence some guitars with two trees?
 
muttley600 said:
superglue
Click to expand...
why would you use superglue?
I've found it to be useless for anything to do with ....... well, anything. It used to drive me nuts when I'd do a piano repair behind someone that had used superglue since it filled the grain and made it difficult to do a proper repair. Sure, this isn't a wood repair per se, but i still find superglue to be of poor durability.
Why not a good epoxy? It's WAY more durable.
 
Pictures:
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/smashguy37/?action=view&current=2008-04-16-10h10m37.jpg
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/smashguy37/?action=view&current=2008-04-16-10h12m01.jpg
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/smashguy37/?action=view&current=2008-04-16-10h12m59.jpg

(the G string is moved over to the D slot, loose, in case you're wondering.)

If I move the G string under the B & E string, it sounds better, however I'm sure it's bad for the nut having the string like that. My high E is still kind of annoying, however sometimes I wonder if I'm just think about it too much.
 
Lt. Bob said:
why would you use superglue?
I've found it to be useless for anything to do with ....... well, anything. It used to drive me nuts when I'd do a piano repair behind someone that had used superglue since it filled the grain and made it difficult to do a proper repair. Sure, this isn't a wood repair per se, but i still find superglue to be of poor durability.
Why not a good epoxy? It's WAY more durable.
Click to expand...
Wooo there who said anything about using it on piano repairs? For repairs on wood I mostly use hide glue. I don't know anyone that hasn't got a couple of different viscosity bottles of cyanoacrylate sat by the bench with a kicker spray to hand. You'd be amazed at how widely used it is in the industry. Everything from gluing binding on to drop filling finish repairs. I've seen bodged repairs of all sorts and the glue used is only half the problem. A bad repair is a bad repair. My least favorite glue when it comes to bad repairs is epoxy.


Why do I use it for this job? I'm looking to get an amalgam of glue and bone dust in there. Superglue wicks in just fine. I Think most others who use that dodge do the same thing. The paper trick is easier with superglue as well. Like I said originally it's a quick dodge and not something you'd do as a permanent fix. If I did I'd likely use a dental composite of some sort. I've used that in the past for bone and ivory repairs with good success. You can use epoxy if you want I'm sure it would work just fine. I don't think it would be significantly more durable.

Epoxy is used for very little in my workshop. Oddly enough grain filling is one of it's best uses. Down to choice really. I have no problem using superglue when appropriate.
 
RideTheCrash said:
Pictures:
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/smashguy37/?action=view&current=2008-04-16-10h10m37.jpg
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/smashguy37/?action=view&current=2008-04-16-10h12m01.jpg
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/smashguy37/?action=view&current=2008-04-16-10h12m59.jpg

(the G string is moved over to the D slot, loose, in case you're wondering.)

If I move the G string under the B & E string, it sounds better, however I'm sure it's bad for the nut having the string like that. My high E is still kind of annoying, however sometimes I wonder if I'm just think about it too much.
Click to expand...

It's very hard to tell from pictures whats going on but I think looking at those you could do with a new nut being cut. Those slots look far to wide and uneven to function properly especially the G,B and E. The slot should be cut a fraction wider than the intended string and be evenly rounded along it's length so the string makes good contact all along it without sticking or rattling. You really do need to get it to a decent repair guy. A string tree will help keep the string down in the slot but if it doesn't fit well to start with you will still get movement.
 
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